Cost over quality - a pilot training revolution?
Thread Starter
Cost over quality - a pilot training revolution?
Fellow Prunes,
I've just been reading this article by David Learmount. Something mentioned that interested me was the point about ATPL theory, cramming a student just to pass the exams at the expense of actually learning the content.
Pilots have been saying for years that the majority of whats taught on the ATPL syllabus is not actually required knowledge on the job, but is it? Whilst I was studying my ATPLs I quickly realised that the subjects were surprisingly out of date. Do EASA plan on updating the syllabus anytime soon?
Im keen to know if any of you CPL ME IR MCC holders are actively going back on training to fill in the gaps on what you once learnt in an effort to better understand your art. What ways are you refreshing yourselves and do you feel a much more competent aviator because of it? Have any flight instructors/experienced commercial pilots noticed a decline in the quality of airmanship over the last 10 years?
I look forward to hearing your views.
I've just been reading this article by David Learmount. Something mentioned that interested me was the point about ATPL theory, cramming a student just to pass the exams at the expense of actually learning the content.
Pilots have been saying for years that the majority of whats taught on the ATPL syllabus is not actually required knowledge on the job, but is it? Whilst I was studying my ATPLs I quickly realised that the subjects were surprisingly out of date. Do EASA plan on updating the syllabus anytime soon?
Im keen to know if any of you CPL ME IR MCC holders are actively going back on training to fill in the gaps on what you once learnt in an effort to better understand your art. What ways are you refreshing yourselves and do you feel a much more competent aviator because of it? Have any flight instructors/experienced commercial pilots noticed a decline in the quality of airmanship over the last 10 years?
I look forward to hearing your views.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find that with most things aviation based all the tests and exams are all just hoops to jump through. ultimately it's after having gained our licences that our experience starts to build and continuing the good habits and structure gained in our training is vital in order to remain safe up there.
obviously understanding is paramount with the atpl theory but the exam structure is begging for rote learning. as students we do what we have to in order to pass the exams first time with a high mark. as professionals and pilots it is our responsibility to refresh our understanding by continual reference back to the books (the expressions, "if you don't know it, look it up" and "know where to look it up" come to mind).
personally i dont have the experience yet to comment on whether airmanship has declined over any period of time as i am practically fresh from the training factory but having also recently completed my fic and started work as an instructor i have been amazed over the last 4 months how much i had forgotten / didnt know well enough in order to teach it. try standing up in front of a room of instructors and giving a long theory briefing and you'll soon identify the weak areas in your own knowledge.
ultimately though it is always going to be a steep learning curve and typically with me anyways, something new goes in one ear and something old falls out the other. so yes, having to pick up the books regularly just to recap and touch up knowledge is now a continual process...one which i dont see and dont want to end for at least the next 40years.
all the best,
obviously understanding is paramount with the atpl theory but the exam structure is begging for rote learning. as students we do what we have to in order to pass the exams first time with a high mark. as professionals and pilots it is our responsibility to refresh our understanding by continual reference back to the books (the expressions, "if you don't know it, look it up" and "know where to look it up" come to mind).
personally i dont have the experience yet to comment on whether airmanship has declined over any period of time as i am practically fresh from the training factory but having also recently completed my fic and started work as an instructor i have been amazed over the last 4 months how much i had forgotten / didnt know well enough in order to teach it. try standing up in front of a room of instructors and giving a long theory briefing and you'll soon identify the weak areas in your own knowledge.
ultimately though it is always going to be a steep learning curve and typically with me anyways, something new goes in one ear and something old falls out the other. so yes, having to pick up the books regularly just to recap and touch up knowledge is now a continual process...one which i dont see and dont want to end for at least the next 40years.
all the best,
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: White Waltham, Prestwick & Calgary
Age: 72
Posts: 4,156
Likes: 0
Received 29 Likes
on
14 Posts
"Pilots have been saying for years that the majority of whats taught on the ATPL syllabus is not actually required knowledge on the job, but is it?"
I kind of get tired of saying this, and I'm sure other schools do, too, but it is. Probably about 5-10% of the stuff is probably never going to be used, but it is still useful background knowledge. SOME knowledge is not required for SOME pilot jobs, but it is a profession that demands flexibility. All the JAA want to do is ensure that you know it before you start, for which I don't have a problem (but don't get me started on the questions - and Rithalic - you are quite right about the exam structure). The syllabus has been "updated", which essentially means moving subjects between the learning objectives.
I can assure you that, after you have about 8000 hours and knocked around the world a bit, it will all have been useful somewhere - I still use ch long mentally bouncing around N Alberta - and the whizzwheel after 30-odd years!
Speaking of bouncing around the world, it is likely that you will get more than one licence - absorbing the core knowledge now means that you are in and out of the exam room as quickly as possible and you're not continually learning yet another set of dodgy questions.
In answer to the original question, I continually read books, some of them over and over. I leave you with this quote from Nick Lappos (a very senior engineer/flight instructor):
“Pure book knowledge should be impeccable - every second of doubt about "what do I do now?" is worth 30% of workload. Mostly because the self-doubt and second-guessing are real time and mental capacity wasters. The more you know flat cold, the easier it is to fly under the gauges”
I kind of get tired of saying this, and I'm sure other schools do, too, but it is. Probably about 5-10% of the stuff is probably never going to be used, but it is still useful background knowledge. SOME knowledge is not required for SOME pilot jobs, but it is a profession that demands flexibility. All the JAA want to do is ensure that you know it before you start, for which I don't have a problem (but don't get me started on the questions - and Rithalic - you are quite right about the exam structure). The syllabus has been "updated", which essentially means moving subjects between the learning objectives.
I can assure you that, after you have about 8000 hours and knocked around the world a bit, it will all have been useful somewhere - I still use ch long mentally bouncing around N Alberta - and the whizzwheel after 30-odd years!
Speaking of bouncing around the world, it is likely that you will get more than one licence - absorbing the core knowledge now means that you are in and out of the exam room as quickly as possible and you're not continually learning yet another set of dodgy questions.
In answer to the original question, I continually read books, some of them over and over. I leave you with this quote from Nick Lappos (a very senior engineer/flight instructor):
“Pure book knowledge should be impeccable - every second of doubt about "what do I do now?" is worth 30% of workload. Mostly because the self-doubt and second-guessing are real time and mental capacity wasters. The more you know flat cold, the easier it is to fly under the gauges”
