JAR conversion again !
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JAR conversion again !
hi !
I want to convert my UK CPL/IR (with Fzn ATPL) to a JAR CPL/IR :
Do I retain my UK licence , including the Fzn ATPL if I do so ?
Heard that one's could not renew both licences and then have to choose which licence you wanna use ...
I want to make sure I will not lose may ATPL theory credit if I ask for A JAR licence now .
( 1050 hours total but no multi pilot experience .)
I know this subject has been discussed many times in the past , but as the GID 36 figuring in the CAA website is ...somewhat confusing , I would like to have your opinion or experience about UK/Jar conversions to date !
If you obtain a JAR CPL/IR , do you lose your UK ATPL knowledge credits ( except for the addition of the 1st multi-crew type rating to the JAR licence )?
Then,in order to gain a FULL JAR ATPL from your present JAR CPL/IR ( with no ATPL credit as you do not have 500 hrs Multicrew) , Would you have to pass the JAR ATPL ground exams or your UK knowledge would be accepted ?
cheers
PAt
I want to convert my UK CPL/IR (with Fzn ATPL) to a JAR CPL/IR :
Do I retain my UK licence , including the Fzn ATPL if I do so ?
Heard that one's could not renew both licences and then have to choose which licence you wanna use ...
I want to make sure I will not lose may ATPL theory credit if I ask for A JAR licence now .
( 1050 hours total but no multi pilot experience .)
I know this subject has been discussed many times in the past , but as the GID 36 figuring in the CAA website is ...somewhat confusing , I would like to have your opinion or experience about UK/Jar conversions to date !
If you obtain a JAR CPL/IR , do you lose your UK ATPL knowledge credits ( except for the addition of the 1st multi-crew type rating to the JAR licence )?
Then,in order to gain a FULL JAR ATPL from your present JAR CPL/IR ( with no ATPL credit as you do not have 500 hrs Multicrew) , Would you have to pass the JAR ATPL ground exams or your UK knowledge would be accepted ?
cheers
PAt
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If you convert your national CPL/IR to a JAA CPL/IR you will lose your ATPL credits and will have to pass the JAA ATPL exams to gain a JAA ATPL.
I assume your confusion arises from Note 4 which reads
"UK CPL(A)/IR holders with ‘frozen’ ATPL examination credits who have less than 500 hours experience on Multi-Pilot
Aeroplanes will not be given ATPL Theory credit for the JAR-FCL licence. However, the UK Civil Aviation Authority has
advised that UK CPL(A)/IR holders with ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits who obtain a JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR without ATPL theory
credit will retain their UK ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits. In addition, UK ATPL knowledge will be accepted to endorse the
first multi-pilot type rating to a JAR CPL(A)/IR issued without ATPL Theory credit."
What this means is that, if you get a JAR CPL/IR, you will have no theory credits for a JAR ATPL. However, should you subsequently qualify for the issue of a UK ATPL before the deadline, your UK ATPL credits will remain valid for issue of a UK ATPL. Furthermore, the UK ATPL credits will be accepted should you want to add a multi-crew type to your JAR CPL.
Thus, if there is no prospect of you gaining the required experience for the issue of a JAR ATPL before the 2002 deadline, you should, if at all possible, retain your UK CPL/IR.
I assume your confusion arises from Note 4 which reads
"UK CPL(A)/IR holders with ‘frozen’ ATPL examination credits who have less than 500 hours experience on Multi-Pilot
Aeroplanes will not be given ATPL Theory credit for the JAR-FCL licence. However, the UK Civil Aviation Authority has
advised that UK CPL(A)/IR holders with ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits who obtain a JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR without ATPL theory
credit will retain their UK ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits. In addition, UK ATPL knowledge will be accepted to endorse the
first multi-pilot type rating to a JAR CPL(A)/IR issued without ATPL Theory credit."
What this means is that, if you get a JAR CPL/IR, you will have no theory credits for a JAR ATPL. However, should you subsequently qualify for the issue of a UK ATPL before the deadline, your UK ATPL credits will remain valid for issue of a UK ATPL. Furthermore, the UK ATPL credits will be accepted should you want to add a multi-crew type to your JAR CPL.
Thus, if there is no prospect of you gaining the required experience for the issue of a JAR ATPL before the 2002 deadline, you should, if at all possible, retain your UK CPL/IR.
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hi !
A friend of mine just converted his UK CPL/IR & Fzn ATPL to a JAR CPL/IR .
experience : 700 hrs no Multicrew time .
He retained his UK licence and the UK APTL knowledge and thus got both licences valid !
When He meets the requirements for A JAR ATPL , he will convert his UK fzn ATPL to a JAR ATPL ..
He did it a month ago ... so patlolo , check with the CAA , It might have changed again !
good luck
WYS !
A friend of mine just converted his UK CPL/IR & Fzn ATPL to a JAR CPL/IR .
experience : 700 hrs no Multicrew time .
He retained his UK licence and the UK APTL knowledge and thus got both licences valid !
When He meets the requirements for A JAR ATPL , he will convert his UK fzn ATPL to a JAR ATPL ..
He did it a month ago ... so patlolo , check with the CAA , It might have changed again !
good luck
WYS !
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patlolo - I can't find any difference of opinion in the replies to your question, they all say substantially the same thing. If you get a JAR CPL issued on the basis of your UK CPL you will not carry over the theory credits for a JAR ATPL.
Your UK credits will remain valid for the issue of a UK ATPL (until the 2002 deadline) and indefinitely for the issue of the first multi-crew type rating on a JAR or UK CPL.
That is not opinion - it is fact. No matter how many times you ask the question, you will always get the same answer.
The reason is pretty obvious. If you want an ATPL, you need to pass the appropriate examinations or have sufficient, relevant experience. You wouldn't expect to get a UK ATPL issued on the basis of passing the FAA ATPL examinations, or vice versa, so why expect to get a JAA ATPL issued on the basis of the UK (or french, Spanish, Dutch, etc.)exams.
Your UK credits will remain valid for the issue of a UK ATPL (until the 2002 deadline) and indefinitely for the issue of the first multi-crew type rating on a JAR or UK CPL.
That is not opinion - it is fact. No matter how many times you ask the question, you will always get the same answer.
The reason is pretty obvious. If you want an ATPL, you need to pass the appropriate examinations or have sufficient, relevant experience. You wouldn't expect to get a UK ATPL issued on the basis of passing the FAA ATPL examinations, or vice versa, so why expect to get a JAA ATPL issued on the basis of the UK (or french, Spanish, Dutch, etc.)exams.
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hi rolling circle .
let' s resume this :
IF I convert my UK CPL/IR (Fzn ATPL)to a JAR licence I will only get a JAR CPL/IR .
I will get an UK ATPL ( not after 30 june 2002 ) if I fulfill the 1500 hrs requirement
Then I Will be able to convert my UK ATPL to a JAR ATPL ? correct ?
I believe you can retain both licences , so what would happen if I asked for a JAR CPL/IR ( no ATPL theroy credit )now , and retain my UK frozen ATPL , using it to gain a JAR ATPL when I meet the requirements ?
Would this be acceptable after june 2002 to convert my UK fzn ATPL direct to a JAR ATPL( if I meet both requirements), having already a JAR CPL/IR issued on the basis of my UK CPL/IR ?
cheers
let' s resume this :
IF I convert my UK CPL/IR (Fzn ATPL)to a JAR licence I will only get a JAR CPL/IR .
I will get an UK ATPL ( not after 30 june 2002 ) if I fulfill the 1500 hrs requirement
Then I Will be able to convert my UK ATPL to a JAR ATPL ? correct ?
I believe you can retain both licences , so what would happen if I asked for a JAR CPL/IR ( no ATPL theroy credit )now , and retain my UK frozen ATPL , using it to gain a JAR ATPL when I meet the requirements ?
Would this be acceptable after june 2002 to convert my UK fzn ATPL direct to a JAR ATPL( if I meet both requirements), having already a JAR CPL/IR issued on the basis of my UK CPL/IR ?
cheers
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Patlolo
You my man ARE Correct....
>...After 1 July 2002, at the point where a >national ATPL(A) would have been issued, >and provided the pilot meets all the >criteria for conversion of a national to >JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Appendix 1 >to JAR-FCL 1.005, the CAA can issue a JAR->FCL ATPL(A)....
from
We would like to correct a growing misconception within the aviation industry that the holder of a UK CPL/IR(A) with ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits will lose those credits if he/she does not obtain a national ATPL(A) by 30 June 2002. It is true that CAA will not be able to issue a UK CPL(A) or ATPL(A) on or after 1 July 2002 except to a pilot who held that same licence on 30 June 2002 (ANO Article 22(2)(d), which means that a national licence can be renewed but an initial issue cannot be made. However, there is no necessity for a UK licence holder to convert to a JAR-FCL licence by any specific date and national licences can remain valid, so that a UK CPL/IR(A) can be renewed after 1 July 2002 and the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge credit will be retained. After 1 July 2002, at the point where a national ATPL(A) would have been issued, and provided the pilot meets all the criteria for conversion of a national to JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005, the CAA can issue a JAR-FCL ATPL(A). Until such time as EC Directive 91/670/EEC is withdrawn, and there appear to be no plans to do this in the immediate future, a UK national licence can still be validated for use in other EU States.
The only circumstance in which all holders of a UK national licence would be forced to obtain a JAR-FCL licence would be if the EU mandated such a move. The Authority has argued against such a suggestion and intends to continue to do so. However, in such an eventuality CAA would seek amendment to JAR-FCL to ensure that ATPL(A) knowledge credits are retained.
Date 2 February 2000
at
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/pld_wha...lexcredits.htm
You my man ARE Correct....
>...After 1 July 2002, at the point where a >national ATPL(A) would have been issued, >and provided the pilot meets all the >criteria for conversion of a national to >JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Appendix 1 >to JAR-FCL 1.005, the CAA can issue a JAR->FCL ATPL(A)....
from
We would like to correct a growing misconception within the aviation industry that the holder of a UK CPL/IR(A) with ‘frozen’ ATPL(A) credits will lose those credits if he/she does not obtain a national ATPL(A) by 30 June 2002. It is true that CAA will not be able to issue a UK CPL(A) or ATPL(A) on or after 1 July 2002 except to a pilot who held that same licence on 30 June 2002 (ANO Article 22(2)(d), which means that a national licence can be renewed but an initial issue cannot be made. However, there is no necessity for a UK licence holder to convert to a JAR-FCL licence by any specific date and national licences can remain valid, so that a UK CPL/IR(A) can be renewed after 1 July 2002 and the ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge credit will be retained. After 1 July 2002, at the point where a national ATPL(A) would have been issued, and provided the pilot meets all the criteria for conversion of a national to JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005, the CAA can issue a JAR-FCL ATPL(A). Until such time as EC Directive 91/670/EEC is withdrawn, and there appear to be no plans to do this in the immediate future, a UK national licence can still be validated for use in other EU States.
The only circumstance in which all holders of a UK national licence would be forced to obtain a JAR-FCL licence would be if the EU mandated such a move. The Authority has argued against such a suggestion and intends to continue to do so. However, in such an eventuality CAA would seek amendment to JAR-FCL to ensure that ATPL(A) knowledge credits are retained.
Date 2 February 2000
at
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/pld/pld_wha...lexcredits.htm
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I can confirm My friend got both licences valid and he will ask a JAA ATPL when he meets the requirements ( 1500 hrs & 500 hrs multicrew time ) Menwhile , he holds a JAR CPL/IR and a UK CPL/IR with fzn ATPL .
So patlolo ,take it easy ! , You can ask for your JAR licence and also keep your brit licence ( & of course your fzn ATPL).
then after june 30 2002 , you could ask for a JAR ATPL direct providing you got the experience ( 1500 hrs and 500 multicrew time )
JARs are confusing ... patlolo , and it is just the beginning !
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Be careful chaps.
If you convert your UK CPL/IR to a JAA CPL/IR then the conversion is done you now have a JAA licence, which you cannot use in a MPA.
If you retain your UK CPL/IR as well, and meet the UK ATPL requirements by 1 July 2002 then you get a UK ATPL
Holding both licences places you in a predicament. You can exercise the privileges of the UK licence and gain Multi-Pilot time, but dont expect to convert your UK CPL now with the 1500/500 hours to a JAA ATPL because you already have a JAA licence a CPL/IR and you don't meet the JAA conversion criteria (namely JAA ATPL level knowledge.
Stick to the UK licence and don't convert until you have to.
If you convert your UK CPL/IR to a JAA CPL/IR then the conversion is done you now have a JAA licence, which you cannot use in a MPA.
If you retain your UK CPL/IR as well, and meet the UK ATPL requirements by 1 July 2002 then you get a UK ATPL
Holding both licences places you in a predicament. You can exercise the privileges of the UK licence and gain Multi-Pilot time, but dont expect to convert your UK CPL now with the 1500/500 hours to a JAA ATPL because you already have a JAA licence a CPL/IR and you don't meet the JAA conversion criteria (namely JAA ATPL level knowledge.
Stick to the UK licence and don't convert until you have to.
