ATPL theory questions
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,226
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From: down south
It reduces the tailplane downforce so the effective weight of the aeroplane is reduced.
This means that the wing may operate at a slightly reduced angle of attack, thus decreasing induced drag.
This means that the wing may operate at a slightly reduced angle of attack, thus decreasing induced drag.
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Land of Hope
Question: At reference or see Loading Manual MRJT 1 Figure 4.14. The medium range twin jet transport is scheduled to operate from a departure airfield where conditions limit the take-off mass to 65050 kg. The destination airfield has a performance limited landing mass of 54500 kg. The Dry Operating Mass is 34900 kg. Loading data is as follows - Taxi fuel 350 kg Trip fuel 9250 kg Contingency and final reserve fuel 1100 kg Alternate fuel 1000 kg Traffic load 18600 kg Check the load and ensure that the flight may be operated without exceeding any of the aeroplane limits. Correct answer is:
The flight is 'landing mass' limited and the traffic load must be reduced to 17500 kg.
How is this worked out can some please help and secondly does block fuel include startup and taxi fuel.
The flight is 'landing mass' limited and the traffic load must be reduced to 17500 kg.
How is this worked out can some please help and secondly does block fuel include startup and taxi fuel.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 812
Likes: 19
From: uk
clkorm3:you come across as a student who has not got a real grasp of your subject. I suggest you get a) a better text book b) or a new tutor rather than trying to get others to do the maths for you!!
None of these questions is difficult and is the sort of calculation that is regularly done on the line.
None of these questions is difficult and is the sort of calculation that is regularly done on the line.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 660
Likes: 20
From: England
The author of your question has specified the MRJT1 aircraft and the loading manual, he/she has then failed to apply some of the limits that are specified in the manual for this aircraft. This error has caused him/her to reach the wrong solution.
The full process is detailed below.
First use the info in the question plus the limits in the CAP696 to determine which limits are the most restrictive to each stage of the flight.
PLTOM = 65050 From question
MSTOM = 62800 From CAP 696
Neither of the above limits may be exceeded, so the Regulated Take-Off Mass RLTOM = 62800
PLLM = 54500 From question
MSLM = 54900 From CAP696
Neither of the above limits may be exceeded, so the Regulated Landing Mass RLLM = 54500
Max Structural Taxi Mass MSTM = 63060 taken from CAP696
Maximum Structural Zero Mass MZFM = 51300 taken from CAP 696.
Then use the most restrictive limits and the load values provided in the question to calculate the mass at each stage of the flight. Compare these masses with the limits to determine whether or not the limits have been exceeded.
Start/Taxi Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Taxi fuel 350
Plus Trip fuel 9250
Plus Reserve fuel 1100
Plus Alternate fuel 1000
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 65200 This figure is 2140 greater than the Maximum Structural Taxi mass of 63060 so the traffic load must be reduced by 2140 to 16460 to remain within the MMSTM.
Take-off Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Trip fuel 9250
Plus Reserve fuel 1100
Plus Alternate fuel 1000
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 64850 This figure is 2050 greater than the RLTOM of 62800 so the traffic load must be reduced by 2050 to 16550 to remain within the RLTOM
Landing Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Reserve fuel 1100
Plus Alternate fuel 1000
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 55600 This figure is 1100 greater than the RLLM of 54500, so the traffic load must be reduced by 1100 to 17500 to remain within the RLLM
Zero Fuel Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 53500 This figure is 2200 greater than the Maximum Zero Fuel Mass of 51300, so the traffic load must be reduced by 2200 to 14600 to remain within the MZFM limit.
None of the above limits may be exceeded, so the most restrictive condition must be applied. This is the removal of 2200 kg of traffic load to remain within the MZFM.
The full process is detailed below.
First use the info in the question plus the limits in the CAP696 to determine which limits are the most restrictive to each stage of the flight.
PLTOM = 65050 From question
MSTOM = 62800 From CAP 696
Neither of the above limits may be exceeded, so the Regulated Take-Off Mass RLTOM = 62800
PLLM = 54500 From question
MSLM = 54900 From CAP696
Neither of the above limits may be exceeded, so the Regulated Landing Mass RLLM = 54500
Max Structural Taxi Mass MSTM = 63060 taken from CAP696
Maximum Structural Zero Mass MZFM = 51300 taken from CAP 696.
Then use the most restrictive limits and the load values provided in the question to calculate the mass at each stage of the flight. Compare these masses with the limits to determine whether or not the limits have been exceeded.
Start/Taxi Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Taxi fuel 350
Plus Trip fuel 9250
Plus Reserve fuel 1100
Plus Alternate fuel 1000
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 65200 This figure is 2140 greater than the Maximum Structural Taxi mass of 63060 so the traffic load must be reduced by 2140 to 16460 to remain within the MMSTM.
Take-off Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Trip fuel 9250
Plus Reserve fuel 1100
Plus Alternate fuel 1000
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 64850 This figure is 2050 greater than the RLTOM of 62800 so the traffic load must be reduced by 2050 to 16550 to remain within the RLTOM
Landing Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Reserve fuel 1100
Plus Alternate fuel 1000
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 55600 This figure is 1100 greater than the RLLM of 54500, so the traffic load must be reduced by 1100 to 17500 to remain within the RLLM
Zero Fuel Mass
DOM 34900
Plus Traffic Load 18600
Total = 53500 This figure is 2200 greater than the Maximum Zero Fuel Mass of 51300, so the traffic load must be reduced by 2200 to 14600 to remain within the MZFM limit.
None of the above limits may be exceeded, so the most restrictive condition must be applied. This is the removal of 2200 kg of traffic load to remain within the MZFM.
Last edited by keith williams; 22nd December 2012 at 16:35.
And you LM.Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Poland
Visibility: letter C instead of RVR
Hi!
First of all I want you to refer to jeppesen approach plates for LKPR (pages 10-9) or UUEE (pages 20-9). There is some interesting change in cycle 1225 and 1226. In old cycle when you will refer to 10-9 table with visibility minumums for NDB approach you will find visibility given in meters. If in front of the value is letter R of course that means that it's RVR. In the cycle 1226 we can find letter C in front of the value. And the letter C is introduced only in the latest database. Can somebody explain me what letter C actually means? Why there is change like that? Any JAR paragraphs?
Looking forward for fast response,
Konrad
First of all I want you to refer to jeppesen approach plates for LKPR (pages 10-9) or UUEE (pages 20-9). There is some interesting change in cycle 1225 and 1226. In old cycle when you will refer to 10-9 table with visibility minumums for NDB approach you will find visibility given in meters. If in front of the value is letter R of course that means that it's RVR. In the cycle 1226 we can find letter C in front of the value. And the letter C is introduced only in the latest database. Can somebody explain me what letter C actually means? Why there is change like that? Any JAR paragraphs?
Looking forward for fast response,
Konrad
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: earth
Flyer696, I am a little confused here.
Both chart numbers given, for Prague and Sheremetyeyo are Taxi Charts.
LKPR try charts 16-1 and 16-2
UUEE try charts 26-1, 26-2, 26-3 and 26-4.
I think you will find what your after there.
Both chart numbers given, for Prague and Sheremetyeyo are Taxi Charts.
LKPR try charts 16-1 and 16-2
UUEE try charts 26-1, 26-2, 26-3 and 26-4.
I think you will find what your after there.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 744
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From: Delsey
Take a look at EGHG for example, 16-1. You will see both RVR and CMV posted.
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/44947...ch-plates.html
AOM for take-off and landing are either shown on Jeppesen instrument approach or aerodrome charts or on a separate minimums listing. Landing minimums will be shown as RVR, but values above 2000m will be designated as Converted Meteorological Visibility, prefixed “CMV”. Take-off minimums are shown without prefix because they are either RVR or VIS. Circling minimums are always visibilities which is indicated in the circling minimums box. For the separate minimums list- ings RVR, CMV and VIS are abbreviated as R, C and V. The following table is used to convert a reported VIS into RVR/CMV.
CONVERSION OF REPORTED MET VIS TO RVR/CMV
Lighting elements in operation
RVR/CMV = Reported MET VIS x
Day
Night
HIALS and HIRL
1.5
2.0
Any type of lighting installation other than above
1.0
1.5
No lighting
1.0
Not Applicable
From the Jepp EAWM General page 197
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/44947...ch-plates.html
AOM for take-off and landing are either shown on Jeppesen instrument approach or aerodrome charts or on a separate minimums listing. Landing minimums will be shown as RVR, but values above 2000m will be designated as Converted Meteorological Visibility, prefixed “CMV”. Take-off minimums are shown without prefix because they are either RVR or VIS. Circling minimums are always visibilities which is indicated in the circling minimums box. For the separate minimums list- ings RVR, CMV and VIS are abbreviated as R, C and V. The following table is used to convert a reported VIS into RVR/CMV.
CONVERSION OF REPORTED MET VIS TO RVR/CMV
Lighting elements in operation
RVR/CMV = Reported MET VIS x
Day
Night
HIALS and HIRL
1.5
2.0
Any type of lighting installation other than above
1.0
1.5
No lighting
1.0
Not Applicable
From the Jepp EAWM General page 197
Last edited by 500 above; 28th December 2012 at 19:26.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 33
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From: Poland
I see 
So why sometimes they publish CMV instead of VIS? So far I assume that RVR is reported only up to RVR1500 and lets say 1600 will be reported as CMV1600.
So why in EGHG 16-1 in straight-in landing rwy 09 W/o DME we can see CMV 3000m but in circle to land there is VIS 1500 instead of CMV?
And another question according EGHG. What about minimums for airplanes not capable of CDFA (for example C172)? Is it legal to proceed through stepdown DME fixes or do they need to apply minumums only for W/o DME?
So why sometimes they publish CMV instead of VIS? So far I assume that RVR is reported only up to RVR1500 and lets say 1600 will be reported as CMV1600.So why in EGHG 16-1 in straight-in landing rwy 09 W/o DME we can see CMV 3000m but in circle to land there is VIS 1500 instead of CMV?
And another question according EGHG. What about minimums for airplanes not capable of CDFA (for example C172)? Is it legal to proceed through stepdown DME fixes or do they need to apply minumums only for W/o DME?
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Delsey
Pretty much, if above 2000m it's now a CMV.
I think (a while back...) during the ATPL met ground school anything below 1500m was reported as RVR if measured by transmisometers and anything above was a visibility.
I'd just use the non CDFA minimums for a steam gauge spamcan at Yeovil if I was to operate in there, but I just used it as an example.
Landing minimums will be shown as RVR, but values above 2000m will be designated as Converted Meteorological Visibility, prefixed “CMV”
I'd just use the non CDFA minimums for a steam gauge spamcan at Yeovil if I was to operate in there, but I just used it as an example.
Last edited by 500 above; 28th December 2012 at 19:44.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 744
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From: Delsey
This also has to be in mind:
DEPICTION OF EU-OPS AOM IN CASE OF EXISTING STATE MINIMUMS
If State minimums are officially published, the depiction of AOM may differ from the standard depiction where all values are expressed as RVR or CMV.
a. If RVR/CMV and VIS are charted together, the RVR value is compulsory. If no RVR is repor- ted, the VIS has to be used without conversion.
b. No prefix is charted if RVR/CMV and VIS is identical. The reported RVR is compulsory. If no RVR is reported, the VIS has to be used without conversion.
c. If only VIS is charted, the VIS has to be used without conversion.
Jepp page 206 EAWM, General.
Just to clarify, you will only be passed an RVR or Vis. You, the crew, calculate a CMV using the tables.
DEPICTION OF EU-OPS AOM IN CASE OF EXISTING STATE MINIMUMS
If State minimums are officially published, the depiction of AOM may differ from the standard depiction where all values are expressed as RVR or CMV.
a. If RVR/CMV and VIS are charted together, the RVR value is compulsory. If no RVR is repor- ted, the VIS has to be used without conversion.
b. No prefix is charted if RVR/CMV and VIS is identical. The reported RVR is compulsory. If no RVR is reported, the VIS has to be used without conversion.
c. If only VIS is charted, the VIS has to be used without conversion.
Jepp page 206 EAWM, General.
I see So why sometimes they publish CMV instead of VIS? So far I assume that RVR is reported only up to RVR1500 and lets say 1600 will be reported as CMV1600.
Last edited by 500 above; 28th December 2012 at 20:32.