Exam failures
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Exam failures
Hello people,
I need some information...or rather, advice! I have been doing an integrated course and passed all my phase 1 exams but recently did my Phase 2 JAA exams and failed 5 out of seven.!! eek! I worked extremely hard for them and have no idea what went wrong. Anyway, three months later, I'm retaking them and am much more confident!
Now skipping into the near future. And presuming I pass everything with flying colours from now on. I want to know how people think my career opportunities will fair! I realize that certain airlines wont even look at me now so what do people on here think I should do...could do...in the near future.
Any help ideas would be much appreciated!!
Thankyou
I need some information...or rather, advice! I have been doing an integrated course and passed all my phase 1 exams but recently did my Phase 2 JAA exams and failed 5 out of seven.!! eek! I worked extremely hard for them and have no idea what went wrong. Anyway, three months later, I'm retaking them and am much more confident!
Now skipping into the near future. And presuming I pass everything with flying colours from now on. I want to know how people think my career opportunities will fair! I realize that certain airlines wont even look at me now so what do people on here think I should do...could do...in the near future.
Any help ideas would be much appreciated!!
Thankyou
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I certainly hope it would make a difference! If not what would be the use!
Probably first job will make some difference, but if demand gets big enough it probably will not.
With much experience problem will not make any difference, as long as you pass airlines own assessments.
They might ask you to explain why you failed so many! So prepare a good answer if you have!
Probably first job will make some difference, but if demand gets big enough it probably will not.
With much experience problem will not make any difference, as long as you pass airlines own assessments.
They might ask you to explain why you failed so many! So prepare a good answer if you have!
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Now working for my third airline and not once have I been asked to provide my exam marks. I have produced an CPL / ATPL and that is it, no one has queried exam marks. Apart from excluding yourself from schemes run by BA etc, it won't limit your career in any way.
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For what it's worth, whatever you do regarding exams, make sure you understand what you are studying. So many people use the BGS database and memorise 1000's of answers, but you'll get a shock when you start the flying part of your course and the phrase "did you not learn that at ground school" will become all too common. And when you start flying outside of your FTO, you'll be glad you studied it properly. Just use BGS to test yourself, not learn the subject. Good luck with your re-tests!
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I realize that certain airlines wont even look at me
and don't tell me I am negative, it 's the reality!!!! or come with a nice cheque, maybe you will get a chance.
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Fully agree with all the previous advice, learn the systems, not just the answers. Once you really know the subject you have the confidence to answer any question no matter how it's wrapped up. I work alongside a guy who failed the ATPLs twice and was given an extension to pass them on the third time over a 3 year period, now that's making it hard for yourself, but as i said he works in the same job for the same salary and the employer doesn't care how long it took him to get the exams passed.
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It does'nt matter a hoot! i know of people who failed thier ATPL exams so many times that the CAA made them go back to the start and re-sit them all again! and yet ryanair took them on - no questions asked.
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That says an awful lot about Ryanair really doesn't it. If you've failed them so many times that you have to go back and start again, do you really belong in the flight deck of a commercial passenger aircraft?
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Id tend to agree with you there mate but sadly thats not how aviation works at the minute, if you have enough $$ to pay for a job, quality just doesnt matter. Anyway, this is going off topic, lets not turn this into another ryanair bashing thread...
I do work for RYR, so while I may be a tad biased, I can also say that before working from them, I was in PLD at the CAA.
I'm pretty confident RYR do ask for a copy of your exam results, and while it wasn't the case when I joined (even though I passed them all first time), I hear they look for first time passes in all exams/flight tests at the moment. My CAA knowledge tells me though, that someone unfortunate enough to have had to sit them all again, receives the same certificate once passed second time around, as someone who passed them the first time. So, unless the guy was asked/(and/or)told RYR this had happened they wouldn't have known.
Just throwing that out there, as I don't believe the statment above to be true- "That says an awful lot about Ryanair really doesn't it" - coming from someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.
I'm pretty confident RYR do ask for a copy of your exam results, and while it wasn't the case when I joined (even though I passed them all first time), I hear they look for first time passes in all exams/flight tests at the moment. My CAA knowledge tells me though, that someone unfortunate enough to have had to sit them all again, receives the same certificate once passed second time around, as someone who passed them the first time. So, unless the guy was asked/(and/or)told RYR this had happened they wouldn't have known.
Just throwing that out there, as I don't believe the statment above to be true- "That says an awful lot about Ryanair really doesn't it" - coming from someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.
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I also work for Ryanair and I understand that they now require first time passes in all subjects. I'm not certain whether or not that was the case when I joined but I don't think so.
They certainly wanted to see my certificate though and IIRC asked me at my interview to confirm that I had all first time passes in series one - i.e. that I hadn't had to restart.
They certainly wanted to see my certificate though and IIRC asked me at my interview to confirm that I had all first time passes in series one - i.e. that I hadn't had to restart.
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If this is the case. What...if any airlines would except me with passes second time round? Or will I have to go abroad and work for some island hopping airline??
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I dont doubt that you were asked these questions when you started but i can offer you sound assurance that this individual deffinately had to endure a complete re-sit of the atpl exams and now works for Ryanair
Just out of interest - in your capacity as a former PLD worker - how would an employer go about checking up on whether you have a complete set of series 1 passes or not? are they even able to do this due to data protection or are they only made available in certain circumstances?
Just out of interest - in your capacity as a former PLD worker - how would an employer go about checking up on whether you have a complete set of series 1 passes or not? are they even able to do this due to data protection or are they only made available in certain circumstances?
Goaround737 - I'm not sure your first paragraph there was directed towards me, not for one second did I not believe that your friend had to re-sit all the exams. In my time there in PLD, I probably heard of it happening to a handful of people, one of which was a good friend of mine. (He didn't fail them more times then allowed, he was a bit lazy, and had other commitments, so they expired).
Regarding your second paragraph, I don't think I need to have been an ex PLD employee to come up with that answer. If a company requests a copy of your results and you cannot provide them, then perhaps you won't get hired. If you remember back to when you did your exams, the results for each sitting were sent out a couple of weeks after taking the exams. When you passed the last exam(s) you had the date and grade of those particular exams on that certificate, and the ones previously passed, simply had 'passed' with the month/year passed in the box. No where did it say on this final certificate if you'd failed any. However, the company you are interviewing for, could easily ask the interviewee for a copy of all the exam certificates from each sitting, and this is where they'd see the grades you'd got on earlier exams, and whether you passed them all first time. (I hope that was clear).
I'd say 'no' regarding getting the results for a particular pilot from the CAA on behalf of a pilot not willing/able to supply them, due to the data protection act as you suggest.
Regarding your second paragraph, I don't think I need to have been an ex PLD employee to come up with that answer. If a company requests a copy of your results and you cannot provide them, then perhaps you won't get hired. If you remember back to when you did your exams, the results for each sitting were sent out a couple of weeks after taking the exams. When you passed the last exam(s) you had the date and grade of those particular exams on that certificate, and the ones previously passed, simply had 'passed' with the month/year passed in the box. No where did it say on this final certificate if you'd failed any. However, the company you are interviewing for, could easily ask the interviewee for a copy of all the exam certificates from each sitting, and this is where they'd see the grades you'd got on earlier exams, and whether you passed them all first time. (I hope that was clear).
I'd say 'no' regarding getting the results for a particular pilot from the CAA on behalf of a pilot not willing/able to supply them, due to the data protection act as you suggest.
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@Goaround737 - If your first paragraph referred to what I said I, like VJW, entirely believe that your friend had to re-sit all of his exams and now works for Ryanair. I was only referring to my personal experience and what I understand to be the current requirements! (I may of course be wrong...)
To clarify I was verbally asked to confirm my ATPL passes were series one - I did so and that was that. It wasn't really a big deal at the time. How (or if) it would be possible to check up I have no idea!
I knew a guy at groundschool who had to restart after failing one subject too many times... It could be argued I imagine that going through that particular experience a second time does show dedication.
To clarify I was verbally asked to confirm my ATPL passes were series one - I did so and that was that. It wasn't really a big deal at the time. How (or if) it would be possible to check up I have no idea!
I knew a guy at groundschool who had to restart after failing one subject too many times... It could be argued I imagine that going through that particular experience a second time does show dedication.
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If this is the case. What...if any airlines would except me with passes second time round? Or will I have to go abroad and work for some island hopping airline??
"An island hopping airline" would be some peoples dream job. Short sector stuff is far far more fun/enjoyable than long sectors. You will do lots of landings and in an island environment this may well be in challenging conditions (short runways, cross winds).
For the record, I've seen/heard more and more recruiters asking about exam and flight test results both during application and in interview. Some places still don't seem to ask (including an "island hopping airline" which I do NOT work for but they aren't going to want someone who views their operation the way you do).
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I wouldn't really worry about it. As has already been mentioned, it's important to have an appropriate answer in case an interviewer does ask you why you failed so many exams.
RYR do require first time passes as a previous poster has mentioned. I and a few others did not get through the RYR assessments and the one common factor was that we all had second series passes in our IR's.
Still didn't stop them from charging me £260 for an interview and 10 mins in the sim...
It paid the interviewers salary for a "hard" days work...who...mind you didn't even bother to turn up on time on the assessment day!
Rant over!
RYR do require first time passes as a previous poster has mentioned. I and a few others did not get through the RYR assessments and the one common factor was that we all had second series passes in our IR's.
Still didn't stop them from charging me £260 for an interview and 10 mins in the sim...
It paid the interviewers salary for a "hard" days work...who...mind you didn't even bother to turn up on time on the assessment day!
Rant over!
