Career as a pilot starting with 1 hour at 43 years old?
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At my class we had 45yo guy... or maybe a bit older.
Anyhow, he completed education. Now he is working on his ATPL and it looks like he "got a job" once he done with his ATPL.
So I would say yes, it is possible, but you need to know people, huge advantage.
Good luck!
Anyhow, he completed education. Now he is working on his ATPL and it looks like he "got a job" once he done with his ATPL.
So I would say yes, it is possible, but you need to know people, huge advantage.
Good luck!
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Thanks again to all - very helpful.
Well, I'm going to crack on with the PPL - if it's as great an experience as I think it will be, I may well post again to seek guidance, which will at that point be based (I trust) a little more on reality and experience!
What's clear from the ground work I'm doing at the moment ('completed' the books on "Aeroplane - Technical" and "Radiotelephony"), it's clearly (and quite rightly) a big deal to fly a plane, and there is a tremendous amount of information to absorb.
I now have at least a slight feel for those guys, who've been flying me around the world for the last 20 years in terms of what they have gone through to earn that privilege.
Good on you all!
Well, I'm going to crack on with the PPL - if it's as great an experience as I think it will be, I may well post again to seek guidance, which will at that point be based (I trust) a little more on reality and experience!
What's clear from the ground work I'm doing at the moment ('completed' the books on "Aeroplane - Technical" and "Radiotelephony"), it's clearly (and quite rightly) a big deal to fly a plane, and there is a tremendous amount of information to absorb.
I now have at least a slight feel for those guys, who've been flying me around the world for the last 20 years in terms of what they have gone through to earn that privilege.
Good on you all!
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he completed education.
As for ATPL, it's very common among the students not being accurate with vocabulary, maybe in order to feel bigger than what they are.
ATPL means the Licence. It comes with experience.
The theorie of the ATPL (which has for the most part the exact same content as the CPL-IR theory) is studied in a flight school in order to get a CPL licence. The law allow you to get the ATPL theory instead of the CPL-IR theory, THAT'S ALL.
So in fact studying the theory at school only means you are working through your CPL. That's a small detail, but it says a lot from the ones showing their way of thinking, more excited by the vocabulary that would encourage the idea to become an airliner driver than becoming a pilot, an aviator.
Its all a bit of a gamble i'm afraid. Theres an old saying "you should only gamble what you can afford to lose, and if you can afford to lose (potentially £100k) then why gamble"?
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KAG
Im sure Russkly is a smart guy and had no problems to understand.
But even more, it is much easier, if you use "simple" language with people who dont have THAT much to do with flying. They will understand easier and better.
Im sure Russkly is a smart guy and had no problems to understand.
But even more, it is much easier, if you use "simple" language with people who dont have THAT much to do with flying. They will understand easier and better.
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Ok, so since everybody love splitting hairs on these forums.
CPL + IR theory is ATPL theory.
There is no separate IR theory.
ATPL is not a licence.
There is no frozen ATPL licence.
And there is still snow and frozen in Norway.
ATPL theory is the theory you need to complete before you start your CPL and IR training.
You could do just CPL theory, this is 9 exams, but a VFR CPL is not very useful, you can only work as FI with that, not much other work available, ok you also need to complete a FIC. (flight instructor course)
You see Cefey how much time we lazy unemployed pilots have, since we keep posting on these forums. Besides the fact that this week I have sent out abou 75 applications and cv's for work that I am mostly not qualified for.
Please Ryanair, email me soon!
CPL + IR theory is ATPL theory.
There is no separate IR theory.
ATPL is not a licence.
There is no frozen ATPL licence.
And there is still snow and frozen in Norway.
ATPL theory is the theory you need to complete before you start your CPL and IR training.
You could do just CPL theory, this is 9 exams, but a VFR CPL is not very useful, you can only work as FI with that, not much other work available, ok you also need to complete a FIC. (flight instructor course)
You see Cefey how much time we lazy unemployed pilots have, since we keep posting on these forums. Besides the fact that this week I have sent out abou 75 applications and cv's for work that I am mostly not qualified for.
Please Ryanair, email me soon!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
ATPL is not a licence.
Yes it is. I have 2 of them from 2 authorities.
I need it to sit in the LHS of the jet.
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...or if you like Air Transport Pilot Licence - sort of says it all really. And just to be clear, it is issued to those who have received the appropriate training, passed the appropriate examinations (the CPL exams and the more difficult, more detailed and harder ATPL exams), a flight test sequence and who have the required number of hours, some of which have to be in a multi-crew aircraft with a mass (don't you just like that word!) in excess of 5,700 Kgs.
And Sean, please ignore the knobs who use the word "passion." Flying is a business. That's what pays your salary. But it's an interesting job with a brilliant view and if you're (very) lucky a career as well. But it is highly toxic on personal life. And for a newbie, at the moment it is also exceedingly wallet damaging as well. If you REALLY have go for it (I really wouldn't) follow Redsnail's advice and ignore mine - I've got as far as I'm going to get and can see retirement looming.
And Sean, please ignore the knobs who use the word "passion." Flying is a business. That's what pays your salary. But it's an interesting job with a brilliant view and if you're (very) lucky a career as well. But it is highly toxic on personal life. And for a newbie, at the moment it is also exceedingly wallet damaging as well. If you REALLY have go for it (I really wouldn't) follow Redsnail's advice and ignore mine - I've got as far as I'm going to get and can see retirement looming.
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Yes, ATPL - everybody is talking about the ATPL theory, as when that is passed you have a ATPL licence! This is what is misunderstood.
Few say, just going to complete my ATPLs, and get a job!!
Few say, just going to complete my ATPLs, and get a job!!
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Most people do know and understand what fATPL is.
The reason for saying "ill get my fATPL and gonna get a job", is before you have fATPL there is no point at all to apply for jobs.
Most of companies have requirement "frozen ATPL" or "passed ATPL theory" (which is the same).
So, that is why everyone says, "get your fATPL". What else would you recommend? PPL? CPL VFR?
The reason for saying "ill get my fATPL and gonna get a job", is before you have fATPL there is no point at all to apply for jobs.
Most of companies have requirement "frozen ATPL" or "passed ATPL theory" (which is the same).
So, that is why everyone says, "get your fATPL". What else would you recommend? PPL? CPL VFR?
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Well, "hold JAA CPL IR and fATPL" is kind off say it self.
But I disagree on MCC. Depends on what kind of jobs you are looking for.
Bigger companies - yes.
Something so you can build your hours - not necessary
But I disagree on MCC. Depends on what kind of jobs you are looking for.
Bigger companies - yes.
Something so you can build your hours - not necessary
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I am with boeing dreamer on that one.
Vocabulary has its importance.
And there is only 2 licence, the CPL, and the ATPL one. In a flight school you only pass the CPL one. The ATPL one can only be done after years of actual experience with a CPL. "fATPL", that's flight school vocabulary (that we all use nowadays, including chief pilots) to keep the wannabe confused and make him dream.
The civil authority allow you to pass the ATPL theory instead of the CPL IR (in order to get your CPL licence) for different reason, on being that both theory are almost EXACTLY the same.
Thing is this is completely useless, they should get rid of the CPL IR theory. Or they shouldn't allow wannabe to pass the ATPL theory whith 50 hours total time (a PPL) when they will not understand anything they will memorise, it would be smarter (from the authority/safety point of view) to make the pilot pass the ATPL theory at 1500 hours and not before. When you reach 1500 hours you don't remember what you memorised without any practical application years before.
To have the right to fly an airliner as a F/O (anyway you cannot pretend a captain position after flight school), you need a MCC and type rating. No ATPL needed AT ALL, no theory, no licence, and the ATPL theory gives you NO MORE RIGHTs THAN THE CPLIR THEORY simply because it's exactly the same for a CPL holder.
Truth is the ATPL and CPLIR theory being almost the same, it would be stupid (from the pilot point of view) not getting the ATPL theory immediately (that you will need in your career when you will be ready to pass the ATPL licence.
This system doesn't make any sense. Anyway you can pass any theory or Phd you want, even the theory to be an astronaute, it is still a CPL licence you will get in your flight school.
Vocabulary has its importance.
And there is only 2 licence, the CPL, and the ATPL one. In a flight school you only pass the CPL one. The ATPL one can only be done after years of actual experience with a CPL. "fATPL", that's flight school vocabulary (that we all use nowadays, including chief pilots) to keep the wannabe confused and make him dream.
The civil authority allow you to pass the ATPL theory instead of the CPL IR (in order to get your CPL licence) for different reason, on being that both theory are almost EXACTLY the same.
Thing is this is completely useless, they should get rid of the CPL IR theory. Or they shouldn't allow wannabe to pass the ATPL theory whith 50 hours total time (a PPL) when they will not understand anything they will memorise, it would be smarter (from the authority/safety point of view) to make the pilot pass the ATPL theory at 1500 hours and not before. When you reach 1500 hours you don't remember what you memorised without any practical application years before.
To have the right to fly an airliner as a F/O (anyway you cannot pretend a captain position after flight school), you need a MCC and type rating. No ATPL needed AT ALL, no theory, no licence, and the ATPL theory gives you NO MORE RIGHTs THAN THE CPLIR THEORY simply because it's exactly the same for a CPL holder.
Truth is the ATPL and CPLIR theory being almost the same, it would be stupid (from the pilot point of view) not getting the ATPL theory immediately (that you will need in your career when you will be ready to pass the ATPL licence.
This system doesn't make any sense. Anyway you can pass any theory or Phd you want, even the theory to be an astronaute, it is still a CPL licence you will get in your flight school.
Last edited by KAG; 21st Mar 2011 at 04:20.
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Thank for sharing this wonderful information. I live in Barcelona and am currently doing the ground study for the JAR PPL, which I'll be taking with Fly-in-Spain in Jerez in May. I have funds and time to dedicate to this, should it appear feasible.
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Cefey : Today even for "smaller" non airline jobs, they expect you to have MCC. You don't have to believe me, you will discover this yourself in due time.
Without the MCC, you can't even apply for most jobs. You might not even believe this, but MCC is harder then the IR, if you it right. But it was much more fun!
Without the MCC, you can't even apply for most jobs. You might not even believe this, but MCC is harder then the IR, if you it right. But it was much more fun!
