What would you do?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
You don't have to quit your job, it is possible to do the lot via the modular way. You keep control of your finances and the pace of your training.
Main thing is that you can time when to do your IR.
Right now? Do the usual and get a medical done, you don't have to go to the CAA, main disqualifiers are diabetes, colour blindness and a strong prescription requirement. (There are other things but your local doctor and optician can tell you what you need to know)
Do some research to see what school suits. Try a trial flight.
One thing to realise is that Ryanair and easyJet are slowing down their expansion. This will have a big impact on jobs in the UK and Europe to a lessor extent. The Middle East and Far East is still hiring but who knows just how many they'll take from the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 etc.
There is some bizjet work going but that's for people with a little bit of experience.
It is a gamble. Only you can do your own risk/benefit analysis.
The view is great.
GAZ - if I may. It's very very easy for me to sit here on my days off and say "yeah, go on, spend tens of thousands of pounds/euros/dollars. It's all good, you'll all get a job". I would be no better than the glossy sales brochures and web adverts you see all over the place. Sometimes, what you may perceive as negativity is in fact reality. Yes, the frivolous posts annoy me too.
Before you dismiss my comments, I am not a sponsored airline captain. I do not have a massive final salary pension to look forward to. I am a self sponsored pilot who is now bizjet captain that had to travel half way around the world to "get lucky". I wish you good luck.
Main thing is that you can time when to do your IR.
Right now? Do the usual and get a medical done, you don't have to go to the CAA, main disqualifiers are diabetes, colour blindness and a strong prescription requirement. (There are other things but your local doctor and optician can tell you what you need to know)
Do some research to see what school suits. Try a trial flight.
One thing to realise is that Ryanair and easyJet are slowing down their expansion. This will have a big impact on jobs in the UK and Europe to a lessor extent. The Middle East and Far East is still hiring but who knows just how many they'll take from the likes of easyJet, Ryanair, Jet2 etc.
There is some bizjet work going but that's for people with a little bit of experience.
It is a gamble. Only you can do your own risk/benefit analysis.
The view is great.
GAZ - if I may. It's very very easy for me to sit here on my days off and say "yeah, go on, spend tens of thousands of pounds/euros/dollars. It's all good, you'll all get a job". I would be no better than the glossy sales brochures and web adverts you see all over the place. Sometimes, what you may perceive as negativity is in fact reality. Yes, the frivolous posts annoy me too.
Before you dismiss my comments, I am not a sponsored airline captain. I do not have a massive final salary pension to look forward to. I am a self sponsored pilot who is now bizjet captain that had to travel half way around the world to "get lucky". I wish you good luck.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Redsnail,
I hope I didn't cause you offense. Your response is the perfect type of response I came to these forums in search of. A non bias look at the industry for us wannabes. I agree I don't want to be fed a load of crap about how many jobs are about, and how I should embark on spending lots of money on this career. But you have responded with an honest, informed opinion and that's what I respect and am looking for. More often than not as I'm sure you appreciate, people paint such an awful picture of the industry, and literally tell people not to bother, that it makes me wonder why they are here and are still pilots.
I hope you understand what I mean, your advice is actualy what I'm trying to embark upon. Doing modular alongside a job!
Cheers
I hope I didn't cause you offense. Your response is the perfect type of response I came to these forums in search of. A non bias look at the industry for us wannabes. I agree I don't want to be fed a load of crap about how many jobs are about, and how I should embark on spending lots of money on this career. But you have responded with an honest, informed opinion and that's what I respect and am looking for. More often than not as I'm sure you appreciate, people paint such an awful picture of the industry, and literally tell people not to bother, that it makes me wonder why they are here and are still pilots.
I hope you understand what I mean, your advice is actualy what I'm trying to embark upon. Doing modular alongside a job!
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Age: 42
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GAZ45 - you have hit the nail on the head for me. The negativity on here is so OTT!!!
If a more representive cross section of pilots, like redsnail, were to post in the 'wannabe' forums (but why would most want to?) then there would be a more rounded view of the industry. Plenty of aspiring pilots make it and I intend to be one of them.
It is fiercely tough and competive to get your break as a pilot - just as it is for any "good" career. I'm currently a trader at a hedge fund and have spent most of my career during the financial crisis. I know what a tough industry is.
1000's of aspiring graduates (and experienced traders) couldn't get a job in my firm and plenty were laid off. However the hedgefund industry (after being written off) is recruiting talented people again. It's the same with the airlines.
If you are good enough you will get employed, just like any other industry.
If a more representive cross section of pilots, like redsnail, were to post in the 'wannabe' forums (but why would most want to?) then there would be a more rounded view of the industry. Plenty of aspiring pilots make it and I intend to be one of them.
It is fiercely tough and competive to get your break as a pilot - just as it is for any "good" career. I'm currently a trader at a hedge fund and have spent most of my career during the financial crisis. I know what a tough industry is.
1000's of aspiring graduates (and experienced traders) couldn't get a job in my firm and plenty were laid off. However the hedgefund industry (after being written off) is recruiting talented people again. It's the same with the airlines.
If you are good enough you will get employed, just like any other industry.
Last edited by yardmaster; 7th Mar 2011 at 15:15.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When a question like "What should I do?" comes up, various answers will be given. If you are considering flying as a career and you are young, rich and single, I'd say go for it. After all, what's money? No one will be hurt if it doesn't work out. And you can always try something else later on. I'd suggest the same to an ex-armed forces pilot. But to an ab-initio who isn't single, who may not have the cash my answer is different. It's a considered approach to risk vs reward. The numbers are not right at the moment to justify risking a relationship, losing a worthwhile job and incurring debt. Frankly I don't care if people disagree with me. But I can see what it's like from the inside, unlike those looking in from the outside through rose tinted glasses. Bitter? Me? No way - flying is a fantastic job. It's the best I've ever had, but I wouldn't enter into it now for the reasons I have explained.
I gave up "work" in 1989. I was a bush pilot in Australia for a year in 1992. I started flying airliners (if you can call a J31 an airliner) in the UK in 1995. Did you notice the three year gap? No professional flying! I'm now trying to imagine doing something else for when I retire. I've got a couple of ideas moving slowly forward. Not one of them is aviation related but that's not because I'm disillusioned with flying. Allow me to rerun my life? I should have stayed where I was prior to 1989 (software industry), learnt to bloody well listen and also to say No! By now I would have retired, have been racing gliders and puling the wings off Pitts S2s for the past few years - But I think that's called hindsight.
However, what I have learnt is that the most valuable thing you have is someone to share your life with.
When did you first land a job as a pilot and could you imagine doing anything else for work??
However, what I have learnt is that the most valuable thing you have is someone to share your life with.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't go getting smug just yet... They are merely PPL papers. An orangutan could pass those if you gave him the right book. Wait till you try tackling ATPL General Navigation and explaining gyroscopic precession and its effects on aircraft instruments.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Age: 39
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
45k is nothing, if there is a market for contracting/consultancy in sales then i recommend you get into that. Contracting allows you the time, flexibility and most of all money, to have a serious crack at the modular route, and if all goes tits up you still have your current industry skills to fall back on.
The problem with this though is similar to what PM said early in the thread.
Who on earth would want to spend 100k to be a F/O (flap operator) just to earn a **** salary. Lets say you earn 30k upon getting a flying job. It's going to take you about 4 years to pay off that 100k you spent! That's 6 years of not earning anything.
Alternatively, you could get your PPL, maybe an IMC, buy a share or even your own Cessna and have a really great time flying.
The problem with this though is similar to what PM said early in the thread.
Who on earth would want to spend 100k to be a F/O (flap operator) just to earn a **** salary. Lets say you earn 30k upon getting a flying job. It's going to take you about 4 years to pay off that 100k you spent! That's 6 years of not earning anything.
Alternatively, you could get your PPL, maybe an IMC, buy a share or even your own Cessna and have a really great time flying.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sussex
Age: 42
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Green Penguin. It's good to know that my intellect is on par with that of an Orangutan. I think I'll steer clear of going any further with this flying lark as I'll never be able to cope with the ATPL tests that's for sure.
I thought my Degree in Electronics was a challenge but by the sounds of it the ATPL theory will be too much for me. Thanks for the advance warning.
I thought my Degree in Electronics was a challenge but by the sounds of it the ATPL theory will be too much for me. Thanks for the advance warning.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cheshire
Age: 43
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ct,
I found your post (and subsequent ones) very interesting. I too dreamed of the pilot career from a young age but lost focus when in college - couldnt make my mind up about uni then got a career for a blue chip chemical company straight out of college - got used to the money & splashing out on bull**** fancy cars etc.
12 yrs on and im still earning a good wage but have come to realise that im bored and want to be happy - Working under the Liverpool airport flightpath means I can never forget about my 'itch'!
Got my PPL a few years ago and am just taking my time now to build hours - also swotting up on maths/physics in my spare time (need to build confidence in this) and looking over some ATPL DVDs/books to familiarise.
pretty much a slow burner I guess but dont care If i dont end up in an airliner - just being an FI would do me - dont care if Im earning a pittance just want to be flying.
Think it can get quite negative in here sometimes but youve just got to stick with it and do things as/when your ready - there's no denying youve got the itch and theres only one way to sort it out. Even if you give it a go and fail at least youve tried.
If I give it a shot and end up back where I started Ill just be grateful that I can get up at weekends as an amateur!
Good luck and let us know how you get on
I found your post (and subsequent ones) very interesting. I too dreamed of the pilot career from a young age but lost focus when in college - couldnt make my mind up about uni then got a career for a blue chip chemical company straight out of college - got used to the money & splashing out on bull**** fancy cars etc.
12 yrs on and im still earning a good wage but have come to realise that im bored and want to be happy - Working under the Liverpool airport flightpath means I can never forget about my 'itch'!
Got my PPL a few years ago and am just taking my time now to build hours - also swotting up on maths/physics in my spare time (need to build confidence in this) and looking over some ATPL DVDs/books to familiarise.
pretty much a slow burner I guess but dont care If i dont end up in an airliner - just being an FI would do me - dont care if Im earning a pittance just want to be flying.
Think it can get quite negative in here sometimes but youve just got to stick with it and do things as/when your ready - there's no denying youve got the itch and theres only one way to sort it out. Even if you give it a go and fail at least youve tried.
If I give it a shot and end up back where I started Ill just be grateful that I can get up at weekends as an amateur!
Good luck and let us know how you get on
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: england
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying
Guys go for your dreams, make them a reality, do not listen to anyone trying to put you off. The point of airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair slowing their recruitment down yes maybe slightly true, but let's also look at their massive high turnover of pilots, who get their experience get their hours up maybe get their command and move on to the Middle East Emirates etc, more than half do. Their will always be some demand for pilots there. Second thing, the comment about biz jets, Corporate Aviation is not just for in experienced or
low hour pilots. Some of the finest pilots i have ever met are in corporate. fact. I have worked in both sides of aviation, and for those thinking modular good for you.
low hour pilots. Some of the finest pilots i have ever met are in corporate. fact. I have worked in both sides of aviation, and for those thinking modular good for you.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The United Kingdom.
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You only live once.
That's all I'm going to say.
The decision is up to you at the end of the day.
And if whatever you pick, turns out how you wanted it to, then great!
If it doesn't, then that's not so great, but at least you tried. Just dust yourself off and move on.
Better to try and fail than to kick yourself for not trying, and wondering 'What if?'.
Myself, I am a young aspiring pilot still in full time education, my parents aren't really too keen on me going into the Aviation Industry, with the price of training and risks. I know exactly what they mean, it's a big risk and I understand what they're saying. But like I said, only live once. So hell! I'm going to go for it. And so should you, if it's what you really want.
Good luck!
That's all I'm going to say.
The decision is up to you at the end of the day.
And if whatever you pick, turns out how you wanted it to, then great!
If it doesn't, then that's not so great, but at least you tried. Just dust yourself off and move on.
Better to try and fail than to kick yourself for not trying, and wondering 'What if?'.
Myself, I am a young aspiring pilot still in full time education, my parents aren't really too keen on me going into the Aviation Industry, with the price of training and risks. I know exactly what they mean, it's a big risk and I understand what they're saying. But like I said, only live once. So hell! I'm going to go for it. And so should you, if it's what you really want.
Good luck!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: belgium
Age: 34
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a bit in the reverse situation as you (still in university though). I always wanted to become a pilot but lately i've been thinking about keeping it as hobby (maybe even enjoy it more) get a great degree and a well paid job so I maybe can buy an airplane with some mates...
Personally I wouldn't give up what you have now-if I'd do it if I was in your position I would go modular. Yes you only live once. And if it goes wrong then dusting yourself off with 80k€ of debts isn't that easy in my opinion.
Personally I wouldn't give up what you have now-if I'd do it if I was in your position I would go modular. Yes you only live once. And if it goes wrong then dusting yourself off with 80k€ of debts isn't that easy in my opinion.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: South East
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of fair points here. I would say getting into the profession is tough, but I can't agree that it's competitive and that's the problem. To my mind most of the issue of getting a job is connections (networking) and being in the right place at the right time (timing). Many people have the aptitude to get through to fATPL and the best pilot isn't necessarily getting the job. Hence people can buy their way in-the selection process has been blown apart by Ryanair et al.
To understand the financial difference between modular and integrated look at it this way. Say integrated takes 18 months - cost £85k (including living costs). Modular I'd say is reasonable to complete in 2 yrs around the demands of a professional job. Lets say you can save £700/month over the period and all living costs are already accounted for. Cost of modular training (~£40k) less savings (24x700=£16800) is £23200! You will be £62k better off than an integrated bod, plus you'll have a well paid job during the search for an aircrew position while the integrated bods start stacking shelves. Beyond that the integrated bod probably has to add interest payments assuming a loan is taken out and then because of their rushing and further fanning the flames by paying for Type Ratings etc they've effectively dug their own grave. Final point is the modular aspirant also has a fallback career in case of illness/loss of license. Integrated training at present has to be blind stupidity. If people stopped trying to fast track their way into an airliner (thinking they'll be happy doing that for 40 odd years?!), and played the long game by starting off flying because they love it rather than because they want to get in a 737 asap then some sense might return to the industry. Rant over.
To understand the financial difference between modular and integrated look at it this way. Say integrated takes 18 months - cost £85k (including living costs). Modular I'd say is reasonable to complete in 2 yrs around the demands of a professional job. Lets say you can save £700/month over the period and all living costs are already accounted for. Cost of modular training (~£40k) less savings (24x700=£16800) is £23200! You will be £62k better off than an integrated bod, plus you'll have a well paid job during the search for an aircrew position while the integrated bods start stacking shelves. Beyond that the integrated bod probably has to add interest payments assuming a loan is taken out and then because of their rushing and further fanning the flames by paying for Type Ratings etc they've effectively dug their own grave. Final point is the modular aspirant also has a fallback career in case of illness/loss of license. Integrated training at present has to be blind stupidity. If people stopped trying to fast track their way into an airliner (thinking they'll be happy doing that for 40 odd years?!), and played the long game by starting off flying because they love it rather than because they want to get in a 737 asap then some sense might return to the industry. Rant over.
