Uni or not? (Merged 2013)
For UK students - and it has not been mentioned yet - there is always the University Air Squadrons (UAS)...
Educated Hillbilly
I like the way everyone recommends joining the UAS as though it is something you just apply to join as a member.
There is reasonable competition for positions in the UAS, also certain minor medical conditions that may not preclude you from holding a class one can prevent you joining the UAS; so you the chances of getting one of the VR non bursar positions is far from guaranteed.
Further to this I understand the UAS have really cut back the flying syllabus in recent years. So the hours obtained form the UAS over 3 years may not be that significant.
Also to add a degree is not a back up, relevant work experience is, so unless you have 5 plus years of post graduate work experience the degree it self isn't that useful.
There is reasonable competition for positions in the UAS, also certain minor medical conditions that may not preclude you from holding a class one can prevent you joining the UAS; so you the chances of getting one of the VR non bursar positions is far from guaranteed.
Further to this I understand the UAS have really cut back the flying syllabus in recent years. So the hours obtained form the UAS over 3 years may not be that significant.
Also to add a degree is not a back up, relevant work experience is, so unless you have 5 plus years of post graduate work experience the degree it self isn't that useful.
Yes, but 25 years ago, and my only regret is not being mature enough then to take the flying as seriously as I should have done. It's still an important and formative feature of my life now however - and many other people's as evidenced by the incredibly interesting cross-section of aviation that attended the last UAS reunion I went to.
Nowadays it's moved away from the flying with a lot less hours, but more towards adventurous and officer training.
None of which changes my opinion that anybody who is lucky enough to have the option to be in a UAS, would be a fool not to fully participate.
But, as PHF said very clearly - they will decide if you're a member, not you. You can only apply and do your best.
Nowadays it's moved away from the flying with a lot less hours, but more towards adventurous and officer training.
None of which changes my opinion that anybody who is lucky enough to have the option to be in a UAS, would be a fool not to fully participate.
But, as PHF said very clearly - they will decide if you're a member, not you. You can only apply and do your best.
I have just started Year 12... I've got around 23 hours in a C172 and I've began my PPL and managed to even do my first solo 1 month ago...
Unfortunately, I didn't do as well as I wanted in Maths GCSE, and got a B; even though I was predicted and was expecting an A or above. As a result, couldn't do AS Maths at school, and now I find myself in a bit of trouble... However in my rest of my subjects I got the rest As and A*s.
This is because that without Maths I cannot get into Uni entry requirements in London for something like Air Transport Operations or something like that. Which leads me to my next question... is uni worth all the money (taking into account the huge tuition fees)? (career opportunities-wise, not partying, social etc.) What courses would you recommend? Is there no way to get into City for example without the B in A2 maths?
The The Air Transport Operations with ATPL course looks good, however I found out that it has been discontinued. Anything like this to come in the future?
What would you advise me to do ?
Thanks!
Unfortunately, I didn't do as well as I wanted in Maths GCSE, and got a B; even though I was predicted and was expecting an A or above. As a result, couldn't do AS Maths at school, and now I find myself in a bit of trouble... However in my rest of my subjects I got the rest As and A*s.
This is because that without Maths I cannot get into Uni entry requirements in London for something like Air Transport Operations or something like that. Which leads me to my next question... is uni worth all the money (taking into account the huge tuition fees)? (career opportunities-wise, not partying, social etc.) What courses would you recommend? Is there no way to get into City for example without the B in A2 maths?
The The Air Transport Operations with ATPL course looks good, however I found out that it has been discontinued. Anything like this to come in the future?
What would you advise me to do ?
Thanks!
In my opinion, if your school is putting their place in the league tables ahead of your career aspirations, then there's a problem. The first solution is go back to them and argue the case why you should be permitted to do A level maths. If you lose the argument, then frankly, they aren't what you need, and jump ship.
Which gives you two choices. One is to do the extra A-level elsewhere, most likely in evening classes: that option is perfectly reasonable and should be open to you in most parts of the UK. The other is simply to leave and study somewhere that will allow you to take the courses that you want and need.
A school DOES NOT have the moral right, and should not have the legal right, to jeapordise your career in pursuit of their position of a higher place in the league tables.
That said, the majority of professional pilot jobs don't actually require a degree, and as PHF rightly said, it's not a job backup, so think hard about why you want it. If you are still convinced that you really want that technical degree, then don't let the school bully you into doing the wrong thing for yourself.
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importance of a degree
Hello.
I'm 15 and currently doing my ppl. Everybody I've spoken to has suggested that I get a degree after school and then continue with my piloting career, but my question is: how influential will a degree be when I'm, hopefully, looking for an airline job someday?
Some people answer that without a degree it will be nearly impossible to fly internationally and others give the age old answer of- it'll give you something to fall back on if things don't work out... I would just like to know your opinion on how valuable a degree is and what experienced pilots recommend. I would most likely look towards aerospace or civil engineering in terms of a degree.
Thank you in advance!
I'm 15 and currently doing my ppl. Everybody I've spoken to has suggested that I get a degree after school and then continue with my piloting career, but my question is: how influential will a degree be when I'm, hopefully, looking for an airline job someday?
Some people answer that without a degree it will be nearly impossible to fly internationally and others give the age old answer of- it'll give you something to fall back on if things don't work out... I would just like to know your opinion on how valuable a degree is and what experienced pilots recommend. I would most likely look towards aerospace or civil engineering in terms of a degree.
Thank you in advance!
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Forget "fall back on". That's a poor phrase.
Instead think of it this way.
Companies like people with "real world" knowledge and experience, not "kids" just out of high school (secondary school) with a "few" hours of flying experience.
So, having a degree will be an advantage in the job search.
But you may also find that you like doing that rather than flying.
And, with the job market the way it is, you might be more likely to find a job you like doing something related to your degree than a flying job that pays any where near the same amount.
In the case where you get a job that's not flying, you'll be able to fly on the weekends and truly enjoy the flying.
If you get a job that is flying, then you'll be more likely to get a "good paying" job with a degree than without one.
Instead of "fall back" think of it giving you options.
Instead think of it this way.
Companies like people with "real world" knowledge and experience, not "kids" just out of high school (secondary school) with a "few" hours of flying experience.
So, having a degree will be an advantage in the job search.
But you may also find that you like doing that rather than flying.
And, with the job market the way it is, you might be more likely to find a job you like doing something related to your degree than a flying job that pays any where near the same amount.
In the case where you get a job that's not flying, you'll be able to fly on the weekends and truly enjoy the flying.
If you get a job that is flying, then you'll be more likely to get a "good paying" job with a degree than without one.
Instead of "fall back" think of it giving you options.
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Nearly impossible to fly internationally? Nonsense! A degree is more of a factor in the US, as it is with almost any trade over there.
If I wanted something to fall back on, plumbing would make way more money than any job that requires a degree
I would certainly have another trade under my belt, but it wouldn't necessarily involve a degree.
If I wanted something to fall back on, plumbing would make way more money than any job that requires a degree
I would certainly have another trade under my belt, but it wouldn't necessarily involve a degree.
The USA and a few parts of the far/middle east like airline pilots to have a degree. They really don't care what the degree is in, or how good.
There are some specialist jobs where a degree, preferably a technical degree, are of significant value to you. They are flight test, and a lot of armed services: a very large proportion of military pilots have good degrees. Those aiming for management pilot positions in the airlines do well do to a management degree of some form.
In Europe, nobody cares if you have a degree if you are *only* a civilian pilot - it's all about your flying qualifications, experience and reputation - anything else is unimportant here (actually once you have the job, the same's true in the USA as well). Where you fly for a European airline is completely irrelevant - if you have an EASA licence, and you're flying a European registered aeroplane, you can fly anywhere in the world and nobody will care about your educational background.
As I've said on here a few times, I am one of those oddballs who have professional engineering AND flying qualifications. That has opened the way to some fantastic jobs, but they're all very nonstandard. That suits me - I would hate to either fly the standard scheduled routes, or do a conventional design office engineering job. Many people however are much happier in the mainstream.
In most cases, Paco is right that it's not a backup. The exception, maybe, is that if you did an aero-eng degree, then time flying would be regarded by most recruiters as valuable industry experience. Any other degree, probably not.
A real backup would be something that allows you to earn money quickly - short order chef, plumber, personal trainer... But that may not suit your personal ambitions, which is fair enough.
There are some specialist jobs where a degree, preferably a technical degree, are of significant value to you. They are flight test, and a lot of armed services: a very large proportion of military pilots have good degrees. Those aiming for management pilot positions in the airlines do well do to a management degree of some form.
In Europe, nobody cares if you have a degree if you are *only* a civilian pilot - it's all about your flying qualifications, experience and reputation - anything else is unimportant here (actually once you have the job, the same's true in the USA as well). Where you fly for a European airline is completely irrelevant - if you have an EASA licence, and you're flying a European registered aeroplane, you can fly anywhere in the world and nobody will care about your educational background.
As I've said on here a few times, I am one of those oddballs who have professional engineering AND flying qualifications. That has opened the way to some fantastic jobs, but they're all very nonstandard. That suits me - I would hate to either fly the standard scheduled routes, or do a conventional design office engineering job. Many people however are much happier in the mainstream.
In most cases, Paco is right that it's not a backup. The exception, maybe, is that if you did an aero-eng degree, then time flying would be regarded by most recruiters as valuable industry experience. Any other degree, probably not.
A real backup would be something that allows you to earn money quickly - short order chef, plumber, personal trainer... But that may not suit your personal ambitions, which is fair enough.
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Degree or any other vocational degree as Back Up doesnt bring you very far in case you cannot find a job. Companies see your F ATPL and know that you will be gone whenever the chance pops up to continue flying. Why would they take you then?
When I was applying for non aviation jobs, I was asked this question. What would you do if you get the chance to get pilot job? You would be a really good liar if you could say without a blink of an eye that you will say NO to that pilot job.
Only possibility is to get ground handling job at airport. And via that way get in contact with maybe an chief pilot of some airline.
When I was applying for non aviation jobs, I was asked this question. What would you do if you get the chance to get pilot job? You would be a really good liar if you could say without a blink of an eye that you will say NO to that pilot job.
Only possibility is to get ground handling job at airport. And via that way get in contact with maybe an chief pilot of some airline.
Companies see your F ATPL and know that you will be gone whenever the chance pops up to continue flying. Why would they take you then?
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Why on eart on CV? For the simple reason that otherwise you have a 1,5 - 2yr gap where you did your training.
With what should I fill that up? Travelling? Then inteviewer? Where have you been? What have you seen? I am a pilot. Not an actor. And I hate to lie. Because interviewers are smart. They pinch you immediately.
With what should I fill that up? Travelling? Then inteviewer? Where have you been? What have you seen? I am a pilot. Not an actor. And I hate to lie. Because interviewers are smart. They pinch you immediately.
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Much better to actually go and work for the 3 or 4 years it would take you to complete your degree, and save enough money to buy your pilot licence without taking on debt. That is worth absolute gold. And will impress most airline employers just as much in the interview, if you explain your reasoning
Last edited by Luke SkyToddler; 18th Oct 2014 at 06:07.
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For the simple reason that otherwise you have a 1,5 - 2yr gap where you did your training
Depends what your degree is in as well.
Most subjects need you to have worked 3-5 years after graduation for you to be useful anyway.
Pharmacist and opticians seem to have a short work up and plenty of locum work which is paid well.
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Yes I did integrated. So in that case it is hard to explain. And what you say mad, to get a job on higher position you need the most hated word EXPERIENCE. Same as in aviation.
But how to get experience if your dont get the chance to obtain experience?
Only thing to do is to accept a much lower position. But then still the question, WHY would we take YOU while knowing that you will go away as soon as you get the chance to take the RHS? I applied even for very low jobs where you dont need education, but then you got answer, you are over educated.
Myself I did integrated training for the costs of Modular but have Integrated on my CV for what its worth.
But how to get experience if your dont get the chance to obtain experience?
Only thing to do is to accept a much lower position. But then still the question, WHY would we take YOU while knowing that you will go away as soon as you get the chance to take the RHS? I applied even for very low jobs where you dont need education, but then you got answer, you are over educated.
Myself I did integrated training for the costs of Modular but have Integrated on my CV for what its worth.
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Just my experience.
But, I have a masters 1st class aeronautical engineering.
Post flight training ended up flying 3 years in light twins (freelance, where I worked part time making use of my university degree to fund poor salary), now 3 years regional turbo props (which I absolutely love)
Have applied many times for easy, aer lingus, jet 2. No interview.
So in my opinion the degree has not helped my flying career, however some might say I have been very fortunate in getting where I have. The degree might help with the sort of jobs that value life experience. But if a jet is where you want to end up... Luck and the right integrated school, and LOTS of money open doors.
Due to the financial implications of university these days, make your own decisions. I found my wife my friends, lifestyle through sport at university. So very glad I went. Plus I funded most of my training with my career post uni. However didn't have to pay fees.
At 15yr old, I suggest you make the most of school. Work, get good grades, get involved in sport, or extra curricular option that enhances a CV. Open doors to your future. Don't make decisions now that limit options.
But, I have a masters 1st class aeronautical engineering.
Post flight training ended up flying 3 years in light twins (freelance, where I worked part time making use of my university degree to fund poor salary), now 3 years regional turbo props (which I absolutely love)
Have applied many times for easy, aer lingus, jet 2. No interview.
So in my opinion the degree has not helped my flying career, however some might say I have been very fortunate in getting where I have. The degree might help with the sort of jobs that value life experience. But if a jet is where you want to end up... Luck and the right integrated school, and LOTS of money open doors.
Due to the financial implications of university these days, make your own decisions. I found my wife my friends, lifestyle through sport at university. So very glad I went. Plus I funded most of my training with my career post uni. However didn't have to pay fees.
At 15yr old, I suggest you make the most of school. Work, get good grades, get involved in sport, or extra curricular option that enhances a CV. Open doors to your future. Don't make decisions now that limit options.
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Integrated on my CV for what its worth
its a bit strange because all my life I have taken jobs to fill in between jobs never had a problem with being degree qualified etc.
I have a C+E lorry license which always allowed me to pick up work as and when required. I suspect even after 14 years not going near them I could phone up a couple of the operators in Aberdeen and start work tomorrow. Although I believe you have to do some theory training these days you can't just jump in a 45 tonner after not driving one for a couple of years and head off like you used to (no bad thing in my opinion)
I am sure Grant in Driver Hire Aberdeen would have me out on the streets the next day as well.
Degree qualified mates work in fields every year inspecting crops.
2 of them used to dig graves.
most shy away from the dirty jobs in life, me I love them, they usually pay very well and nobody cares about you apart from you turn up everyday on time and you will put in over time if required.
I am a firm believer in generating your own luck. If you have a hunger and you want to do something and put some effort in luck happens. Same with looking for work. Don't mind swinging a sledge hammer and bending you back shovelling ****e you will get work. You might only do it for a few weeks when something else turns up because you have been seen to shovel ****e with a smile. Well that's the way it seems to have worked for me through my life.
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Myself I am not to arrogant to do ****ty jobs. I also applied to work in a factory. I dont care what kind of work I have to do. As long as I dont have to hold up my hands to get state allowances.
Now I am working as FA in an growing company. Lately an Purser is hired as FO in this airline. Will start to do his TR next month. And the nice thing is, we dont have to pay for our rating and the salary is actually pretty good.
As you say Mad Jock. Absolutely true. If you are willing to work hard and open to do anything to work, then you will find your luck.
For me I hope this will be my lucky shot and make a great start in my carreer as a pilot in this company.
Now I am working as FA in an growing company. Lately an Purser is hired as FO in this airline. Will start to do his TR next month. And the nice thing is, we dont have to pay for our rating and the salary is actually pretty good.
As you say Mad Jock. Absolutely true. If you are willing to work hard and open to do anything to work, then you will find your luck.
For me I hope this will be my lucky shot and make a great start in my carreer as a pilot in this company.
