CPL(H) Groundschool and Piston vs Turbine
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CPL(H) Groundschool and Piston vs Turbine
Hi there,
I am an ex-army pilot (850 hours) who has not flown for 5 years but am wanting to go back to flying, with the aim of working in Africa. I have been advised (via CAA) that I need to complete a PPL(H), requiring about 10 hours of flying, do the 8 exams, and then complete the 30 hours of CPL(H) instruction. My request for advice from fellow PPruNers is on this:
1) Are the 8 PPL(H) exams additional to the CPL(H) exams? I assume that this is the case.
2) I see that some schools offer the CPL(H) 9 exam option instead of the 13 (ATPL(H))? Sadly Bristol GS doesn't seem to do this. If I don't think I will be upgrading to an ATPL(H), is there any benefit to doing all 13 exams? Can anyone recommend a good distance learning package that does offer the 9 exam option?
3) Piston vs Turbine - what are your thoughts on obtaining the CPL(H) on piston, and then doing a turbine type rating when required, in order to keep costs to a minimum, as there is obviously quite a price difference over 30 hours instruction.
Many thanks
CR
I am an ex-army pilot (850 hours) who has not flown for 5 years but am wanting to go back to flying, with the aim of working in Africa. I have been advised (via CAA) that I need to complete a PPL(H), requiring about 10 hours of flying, do the 8 exams, and then complete the 30 hours of CPL(H) instruction. My request for advice from fellow PPruNers is on this:
1) Are the 8 PPL(H) exams additional to the CPL(H) exams? I assume that this is the case.
2) I see that some schools offer the CPL(H) 9 exam option instead of the 13 (ATPL(H))? Sadly Bristol GS doesn't seem to do this. If I don't think I will be upgrading to an ATPL(H), is there any benefit to doing all 13 exams? Can anyone recommend a good distance learning package that does offer the 9 exam option?
3) Piston vs Turbine - what are your thoughts on obtaining the CPL(H) on piston, and then doing a turbine type rating when required, in order to keep costs to a minimum, as there is obviously quite a price difference over 30 hours instruction.
Many thanks
CR
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Briefly ...
1) Yes ... you'll need either CPL(H) or ATPL(H) theory as well.
2) If you're not going to get an IR, then CPL(H) theory will suffice. Check out CAPT run by Phil Croucher. It's helicopter specific which Bristol isn't.
3) Only people with more money than sense would do their flying training in a turbine. You'll find the type rating for the turbine very straightfoward so leave it until you need it; otherwise the upkeep of the rating could be expensive if you're out of work. Without wishing to start the R22 v S300 never-ending-debate (and I'm rated on both), I think with your experience, you'd prefer the Schweizer.
Cheers
Whirls
1) Yes ... you'll need either CPL(H) or ATPL(H) theory as well.
2) If you're not going to get an IR, then CPL(H) theory will suffice. Check out CAPT run by Phil Croucher. It's helicopter specific which Bristol isn't.
3) Only people with more money than sense would do their flying training in a turbine. You'll find the type rating for the turbine very straightfoward so leave it until you need it; otherwise the upkeep of the rating could be expensive if you're out of work. Without wishing to start the R22 v S300 never-ending-debate (and I'm rated on both), I think with your experience, you'd prefer the Schweizer.
Cheers
Whirls
This may sound a daft question, but there is significant credits for a PPL (H) at least - especially regarding the theory exams for a QSP who's flown within the last 5 years. Is there any way you can become current through the military again?
In fact- and it's been a while since I've looked at this but getting current again through the military somehow could save you a lot of money. Getting current would exempt you from the need to get the PPL, and would also exempt you for any training towards the JAR CPL course. I believe all you'd need to do is the JAR CPL (H) theory exams.
From Section D 6 in Lasors.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_lt...ection%20D.pdf
Definition of Current Flying Practice
In order to qualify for credit against the CPL(H) Skill Test (see D6.4), a QSP(H) shall be in current flying practice.
To be deemed to be in current flying practice, a QSP(H) shall have a minimum of 12 hours flying experience as a pilot in military or civil helicopters (or combination of both) in the 12 months preceding the date of application for licence issue. This experience shall include at least 6 hours as pilot-in-command (PIC), (military 1st pilot hours may be counted towards the PIC requirement), one training flight with a military instructor pilot or JAA Flight Instructor, and 12 take-offs and landings.
These 12 hours are surely cheaper then doing a PPL course at 10 hrs (as you suggested) and then a 30 hr CPL course.
Regarding the Theory Exams
A QSP(H), who does not meet the eligibility criteria, will be required to demonstrate the appropriate level of theoretical knowledge by passing ALL of the theoretical knowledge examinations at the appropriate level (i.e. CPL, CPL and IR or ATPL). However, credit will be given against the requirement to complete an approved course of theoretical knowledge instruction prior to attempting the examinations. Applicants will be required to undertake theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider.
Judging by your hours, you do not meet the requirement for the reduced theory course whereby you could only sit 3 of the JAR CPL exams Air Law, Performance and Operational Procedures, however you are exempt the requirements to complete an approved course of instruction before sitting the exams.
Definitely worth looking at.
VJW
From Section D 6 in Lasors.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_lt...ection%20D.pdf
Definition of Current Flying Practice
In order to qualify for credit against the CPL(H) Skill Test (see D6.4), a QSP(H) shall be in current flying practice.
To be deemed to be in current flying practice, a QSP(H) shall have a minimum of 12 hours flying experience as a pilot in military or civil helicopters (or combination of both) in the 12 months preceding the date of application for licence issue. This experience shall include at least 6 hours as pilot-in-command (PIC), (military 1st pilot hours may be counted towards the PIC requirement), one training flight with a military instructor pilot or JAA Flight Instructor, and 12 take-offs and landings.
These 12 hours are surely cheaper then doing a PPL course at 10 hrs (as you suggested) and then a 30 hr CPL course.
Regarding the Theory Exams
A QSP(H), who does not meet the eligibility criteria, will be required to demonstrate the appropriate level of theoretical knowledge by passing ALL of the theoretical knowledge examinations at the appropriate level (i.e. CPL, CPL and IR or ATPL). However, credit will be given against the requirement to complete an approved course of theoretical knowledge instruction prior to attempting the examinations. Applicants will be required to undertake theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider.
Judging by your hours, you do not meet the requirement for the reduced theory course whereby you could only sit 3 of the JAR CPL exams Air Law, Performance and Operational Procedures, however you are exempt the requirements to complete an approved course of instruction before sitting the exams.
Definitely worth looking at.
VJW
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Whirls,
Thanks very much for your reply. Sound advice, esp regarding the piston/ turbine options. Have taken a look at Phil's CAPT site, which looks very promising, and exceedingly good value for money if I am taking in the information correctly. I shall get in contact with them to nail the details.
Best wishes,
CR
Thanks very much for your reply. Sound advice, esp regarding the piston/ turbine options. Have taken a look at Phil's CAPT site, which looks very promising, and exceedingly good value for money if I am taking in the information correctly. I shall get in contact with them to nail the details.
Best wishes,
CR
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VJW,
Thanks also for your detailed reply. Sadly I do not qualify as a QSP(H) since I left the Army Air Corps over 3 years ago.
From Lasors 2010 Sec D.
Ex-Qualified Service Pilots
An ex-QSP(H) can claim any credit for which he qualifies, for a period of one year from the last date of service.
So, all the information about current flying practice for QSPs does not apply to my situation. The idea about getting current again through the military to avoid having to do the PPL(H) is a good one, but again, sadly I cannot get any hours through the AAC, even though it still feels as though I belong!!
Best wishes
CR
Thanks also for your detailed reply. Sadly I do not qualify as a QSP(H) since I left the Army Air Corps over 3 years ago.
From Lasors 2010 Sec D.
Ex-Qualified Service Pilots
An ex-QSP(H) can claim any credit for which he qualifies, for a period of one year from the last date of service.
So, all the information about current flying practice for QSPs does not apply to my situation. The idea about getting current again through the military to avoid having to do the PPL(H) is a good one, but again, sadly I cannot get any hours through the AAC, even though it still feels as though I belong!!
Best wishes
CR
Hey Ramsay
That's a real shame.
Just to make it clear, getting current again (even though impossible as you confirmed) would first exempt you from the need to do a PPL (H) all together.
It would also exempt you from doing a CPL (H) training course and CPL (H) skill test - all you'd need to do in order to obtain the UK JAR CPL (H) would be the CPL (H) theory exams, and radio licence.
I use to work in PLD at gatwick, and I'm pretty sure in my time there (although over 2 years ago now) people use to do what I suggested above to avoid a huge chunk of the civil transfer requirements.
Good luck either way.
VJW
That's a real shame.
Just to make it clear, getting current again (even though impossible as you confirmed) would first exempt you from the need to do a PPL (H) all together.
It would also exempt you from doing a CPL (H) training course and CPL (H) skill test - all you'd need to do in order to obtain the UK JAR CPL (H) would be the CPL (H) theory exams, and radio licence.
I use to work in PLD at gatwick, and I'm pretty sure in my time there (although over 2 years ago now) people use to do what I suggested above to avoid a huge chunk of the civil transfer requirements.
Good luck either way.
VJW
