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Baltic Aviation Academy

Old 26th Mar 2019, 12:21
  #201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: groom lake
Posts: 49
737 type

They are advertising 737 type course and if you dont get a job within a year they refund you 10 grand. Can anyone shed any light on this ad campaign ?
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 12:51
  #202 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
Posts: 28
Are you looking for the catch? It comes in the definition of 'job'.

The catch is that they include 'line training programmes' as a job. So if when you finish your type rating you are approached by AviationCV (you will be) and they try to give you a placement of 500hrs for 40,000eu or whatever for a salary of 700eu a month, if you say no to this then they count it as you said no to a job and you will not get 10,000eu back.
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 20:49
  #203 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 29
I was also receiving those ad emails and thought the similar ideas as mentioned above ^^^^ which came to my mind. Most likely they will try to "make a great job offer" in one of their parent or sister companies for minimalistic salary & conditions and if you, the naughty boy with no experience, refuse this great offer, then it's purely your decision but you won't get the refund
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Old 26th Mar 2019, 20:58
  #204 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 6
Does anyone know/saw the B737 TR + first officer position ad on airBaltic Training facebook page? Self-sponsored 737 TR and a guaranteed FO job until November with possible contract renewal. Any thoughts on this deal?
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Old 27th Mar 2019, 06:32
  #205 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Cannes
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by Barmn View Post
Does anyone know/saw the B737 TR + first officer position ad on airBaltic Training facebook page? Self-sponsored 737 TR and a guaranteed FO job until November with possible contract renewal. Any thoughts on this deal?
Air Baltic will phase out their 737s this year so 'possible contract renewal' is not likely.
Plus they have their own training center Air Baltic Training with 737 simulator, it is not BAA's business apparently
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Old 28th Mar 2019, 22:09
  #206 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 146
KT 1988,
I have to give advice for a choice of ATO to a young friend that want to start training. You seem to be happy in Poland, much, much better than the ones in BAA. Could you kindly tell the name of this good school? Thaks in advance.

FBW 390
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Old 29th Mar 2019, 08:13
  #207 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: NA
Posts: 22
If something offered by BAA is too good to be true there is most probably P2F behind this or bad quality product. Be aware, don't fall into such traps. They are not Top 3 training aviation center, they are not even close. This title given to them by their sister company. Imagine I create an internet site, I put some information about myself and other competitors and then I called myself best of something, isn't it funny?

I heard from few former TR students that TR standarts are pretty low.
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 22:47
  #208 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Poland
Posts: 28
FBW390 Tried to write a private message to you but the system did not want to send it. So I will write here instead:

Since you asked for a advice, there are many good schools in Poland. The most known one is Bartolini, but they got some waiting time to begin the training (I do not know if students have to wait long for slots or not after the training start) and cost a bit more than the other schools in Poland. The school I am attending is Goldwings Flight Academy and I am very satisfied with the school. The only unsatisfied person I saw during my stay was a foreign student who did not put a big effort in his PPL(A) training (did not pass exams at ULC for the first license which can be passed all 9 in one sitting in 2 hours (at least I did it that way)) and he demanded to fly solo cross country after flying with the best and most patient instructor (who lets you do really many mistakes and never gets angry no matter how much you fail, and instructing is a passion for him since he keeps doing it part time after he became FO in Sprint Air) and almost landing outside the runway at a grass airport in Kikity (the instructor had to save it and really waited until the last moment. I saw it from an AT-3 waiting to line up, others saw it from the terrace of the hotel) where we went on a 5 day trip when EPBC was closed. The school did what it could to help him like giving him the best (according to me the best) instructor and taking him in a small group that went to Kikity for those 5 days since he wanted intensive training. After the episode the student went almost mad that the school does not let him fly alone and the instructor corrects him.... "sadly" for him the school did not let him fly alone on the more demanding grass airfield (EPBC got much traffic but its much more easy airfield) and crash the plane.

Everyone else as far as I know was very satisfied with the school even those few students who were a little unhappy after questioning from our CFI before solo flights or after failing internal flight exam before solo flight. The owner and CFI of the school does practical theory checks on the students who fly on their first solo pattern and first solo cross country to be sure that they have the basic knowledge. Its not a school where you can just know nothing and pass the exercises.

As for the prices a naked 0-fATPL with CPL and IR/ME can be done for like 37000 - 38000 Euro and if you want it with MCC/JOC and FI rating then it cost about 48000 Euro with job guarantee as a FI (including a salary per block hour, the salary have to be negotiated personally with the school.) (ofc. you have to pass the exercises, exams etc. itd.) The school is also waiting for a program with Nordica job guarantee in the airlines, in the beginning the program is planned to be available to students at the school who already got PPL(A). I do not know more about it yet but I am very curious about it myself. (Prices are subject to change, what I tell are the prices I got, since more and more people wish to do the training in Poland they can rise)

Feel free to contact me on facebook (Krzysztof Thor) and I can also give you contact to the owner of the school if your friend plan to visit the place and see if he like it.

PS. The price is for standard hours it means that if your friend does not ace the PPL(A) then he will have to use more than the 45 hours of mandatory training. Most people use like 50 up to 60 hours (I did 52 including mandatory solo flights before PPL(A) exam). Those extra hours cost extra 125 euro per hour since its with instructor. The same apply if you fail the exercises in MEP(L) or IR/ME its most costly since DA-42 is like 1500 PLN per hour (about 345 Euro). But its better to learn the stuff well at the school than fail at the official exam or at airline interview I believe.

P.PS: Just so you know I own a Cessna 172 that fly for the school since October 2018. So just tell your friend to also ask other students at the school. As for me I have such a strong belief in the school and its future that after getting my first PPL(A) licence I decided to invest in my own aircraft to be part of it not only as a student and future FI.
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 16:04
  #209 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vilnius
Age: 25
Posts: 3
Read this before going to BAA
My personal story with BAA begins in September 2016. I signed a contract with BAA for ATPL integrated course. The sum of the training services was 59 900 EUR.

Today this same contract costs MUCH more (around 75 000).

- During that period I paid more than 24 000EUR and got 36 !!! flight hours.
- During that period I`ve completed my ATPL integrated course in BAA and passed almost all my exams in CAA.
- In 2017 BAA terminated my contract with no refund.

My story began in June - August 2017 flight season.

On 27.10.2017 after the 2017 flight season ended BAA terminated my contract and it was the hardest hit I took in my life. The "reasons" are shown down below.

Okay, so in the contract that BAA provided me, was a statement that BAA has the right to terminate the contract prior 5 day notice if the student violates the "code of conduct".

As a "violation of the code of conduct" BAA refereed to:

CLAIM: I was twice (2) LATE for 10 - 15 minutes for my flight training at the aerodrome.
ANSWER: Theory takes place in Vilnius, practice flying - in Kaunas. 17.06.2017 Due to NEW CITY bus time schedule, I was late for my first flight with my friend. Second one - at 10.08.2017 was due to my car simply won`t start. All this 2 times I was late for 10 - 15 minutes. What a slack!

C: I was absent ONCE for flight training on 21.08.2017 (end of flying season).
A: I was in Vilnius doing my VISA.

C: Two (2) safety reports while flight training
A: Brilliant. "safety report 1" - 27.06.2017 while I was doing touch-and-goes in Aleksotas aerodrome, while turning downwind my instructor started shouting at me, told me to land and on the ground said that from his words I lead the plane into "spiral dive". Until this day, after getting my CPL license in other flight school, I know that it is not truth. I do not recall ANY abnormal attitudes of the plane that day. Nevertheless, the INSTRUCTOR is responsible for the safety of student and himself.This is simply nonsense.

Next "safety report" - on 11 of August after waiting for my flight for 5-7 hours in the briefing room (normal period for BAA 2017), while taxing to park the plane I slightly TOUCHED a small bush 20 cm with my left wing, living absolutely NO NOTICEABLE MARK on the wing surface. That`s it. Do you realise that BAA regarded to my learning mistakes as one of the REASONS TO TERMINATE MY CONTRACT WITH NO REFUND? All pilots that I`ve told this about confirmed that it is complete nonsense.

C: Lack of discipline and not preparing for classes
A: This is the best one. Look, being an ISRAELI citizen (which was obviously known to BAA), BAA gave me an instructor that was (from his words) FORMER IRANIAN MILITARY PILOT! Our nations are in a state of war for the last 50 years. From the first day I had a feeling that he treats me unlike my groupies. He often let me stay on the ground for 5-6 hours waiting for my flight or not flying with me at all. He told me so many times that if I don`t like something - I can change the instructor. I did not do that because I believed that our conflict could be settled. I was wrong.

===At the attached document "FLIGHTS" you can see my flying progress compared to the progress of my gropmates:
Red boxes - me not flying that specific day while at least one student of my group was flying.===

That is right - at the end of the flying season I got 2 times LESS (36) flight hours than my gropmates.

That is absolutely insane. I could not and can not believe what happened! My family was investing in me all this time and were in a serious financial situation paying for my studies. I payed almost 25 000 EUR (DEAR GOD!!), and got ONLY 36 (THIRTY_SIX) flight hours and got my contract terminated!!!

It was so INSAINLY STRESSING situation that until this very day my family doesn`t know that I had to sign a NEW CONTRACT with a NEW FLIGHT SCHOOL that was cheaper and , as I saw it, more honest with students - it will be unbelievably stressful for my family to know that all the money they were working so hard to earn, giving all what they got to pay for me ended up in 36 instead of almost 220 (!!!) flight hours and a terminated contract!. I feel anger and disbelief that such a thing can happen in Europe today. Each time I think about what happened with me keeps me awake at night. Makes my heart go faster in pain after I recall my experience with BAA.

In my new school my contract was 4 pages and the cost was about 30% LESS (not 60K) from the very beginning.

To end my story I want you to understand, that no mater how well-marketed, good looking, polished and hyped the company is, you ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS have to double check and verify all the information you are given. More money you pay does not guarantee anything. The smile they met me with for the first time, was the same smile they terminated my contract. Understand one thing: any flight school that is legally registered will NOT GIVE YOU A LICENSE - only CAA (Civil Aviation Administration) will give you a license. Only purpose of a flight school - to prepare you to meet the requirements to obtain the license. And I can tell you one thing - the next week our group found out there is no difference, some of us wanted to change BAA for a cheaper one, but we could not - the contract does not let you do that without paying "fines".

In the newest contract BAA provides you, from my friends in BAA told me, you are NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT BAA, otherwise - you can find yourself in my position.

I told you my story how I DID NOT became a pilot in Baltic Aviation Academy and regret the day when I heard about them for the first time in my life. I do know a lot of people who have the same feeling about BAA and share my pain and regret.

Please, be smart and don`t make our mistake.

Thank you.

PS
BAA have send me an official letter demanding deleting my previous comment in Google maps where I described all this in more emotional way.

Be smart.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Flights.pdf (255.7 KB, 47 views)

Last edited by saxamen; 2nd Apr 2019 at 21:49. Reason: Grammar
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Old 1st Apr 2019, 16:06
  #210 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 146
KT1988,

Thanks very much for your answer and all the information. I really appreciate. I xill consider it of course...

Best Regards,

FBW390
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 11:03
  #211 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: NA
Posts: 22
I think nothing changed so far since October 2018. BAA has around 200-250 enrolled students but they have only 4 VFR and 5 IFR instructors where 2 of them is teaching only ME/IR (plus some part time FI comes and go for couple of days a month). I wonder IF they do anything to fix this situation because it doesn't look so. Again students lost contact with BAA and they are not informed about anything, they are all left in the dark. They just pray to be scheduled and hoping to finish. They don't even expect to receive simple service because they lost their hope about BAA. Only information provided with students is how many total hours flown in VFR, IFR and ME per month. It is total mess in terms of organization and planning. New AIP was published therefore charts has changed but BAA was not even aware of that students have to solve this problem themselves. It is never flown in the morning all flight are scheduled in the afternoon therefore students depart IFR but have to land VFR for their IFR training. Multi engines are back but their maintenance takes 1 week, this means they fly 1 week and they are off in hanger for a week. With this performance, bottle neck for each phase of the training narrowing down so waiting time for it getting longer and longer.

On average students could fly 4-5 hours per week. Students invited to start certain phase of training but they could only do their first flight in 2 weeks. There are many more to write down here but I hope someone who has more clear insight about the situation could support.

Students just need information, explanation and the service they are paid for. You have to give them this otherwise you will create bunch of unsatisfied people.
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 12:16
  #212 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vilnius
Age: 25
Posts: 3
BAA "kindly asked" students to move from Lithuania to Spain, claiming that life in Spain is cheaper and they will complete the flights faster. Result: rent and products are 30-40% more expensive and about ONE IFR flight per TEN DAYS from October until mid December. People lost tons of money for just sitting and doing nothing. Rent in Spain - about 700 eur when in Vilnuis - 350 eur. Guys payed brokers 700 eur for deposit. Each one. Others lived via AirBnb.
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Old 7th Apr 2019, 12:23
  #213 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Vilnius
Age: 25
Posts: 3
For example - from October until end of November they had 2 (TWO) c172 for IFR flights for about 33 (THIRTY THREE)! students! After this BAA sent about 20 students back home. Do you realize it? People had CONTRACTS for rent and BAA sent them home saying there will be no flights.
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Old 17th Apr 2019, 14:43
  #214 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: hun
Posts: 2
Training quality in BAA is extremely low. My personal experience and sudjestion not to start training with them. Better pay a little more to anoher ATO, and you will get better training? better instructors and create solid base for your future job search and career
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 10:49
  #215 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Poznan
Posts: 1
worst form of pay2fly

Originally Posted by RomanK View Post
Air Baltic will phase out their 737s this year so 'possible contract renewal' is not likely.
Plus they have their own training center Air Baltic Training with 737 simulator, it is not BAA's business apparently
co like air baltic are killing the market. these models should finally come to an end. please don't reply to them at all
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 17:39
  #216 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: above clouds
Posts: 3
Hello guys, newcomer is here.

Firstly, i must say im very sorry to hear all this problems from students of BAA. I was looking around for detailed reviews from students and graduates and found out this website.

Here is my story, all of you must have heard Turkish Airlines. the company is running cadet program for years now. i was accepted couple of months ago and company informed us due to long wait list for air schools in Turkey, we will be sent to BAA, Lithuania (around 20 cadets).

My question is now, all discouraging events happened, delays and everything, did the academy solve your problems? is it getting any better now? or are we coming into a mess?

Also, i would like to hear any other opinions from you, if you have any. cheers
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 22:41
  #217 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: anywhere
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by aviatorfromIST View Post
Hello guys, newcomer is here.

Firstly, i must say im very sorry to hear all this problems from students of BAA. I was looking around for detailed reviews from students and graduates and found out this website.

Here is my story, all of you must have heard Turkish Airlines. the company is running cadet program for years now. i was accepted couple of months ago and company informed us due to long wait list for air schools in Turkey, we will be sent to BAA, Lithuania (around 20 cadets).

My question is now, all discouraging events happened, delays and everything, did the academy solve your problems? is it getting any better now? or are we coming into a mess?

Also, i would like to hear any other opinions from you, if you have any. cheers
As I understand you will be doing an MPL. Being honest I have big confusion about how BAA is going to produce MPL cadets within any reasonable timeframe. They only have 2 A320 simulators, one of which breaks down regularly and is extremely old. Baring in mind all the MCC courses, type ratings as well as maintenance time, it will be a struggle, for sure. Even for MCC, only 15 hrs in the sim, and they are telling people to go home and come back in some weeks because there is no place in the schedule. The place works at maximum capacity yet they keep bringing more and more work for it, it is really incredible. But this is how baa operate, from top to bottom.

They have also announced an avion express MPL programme so you have even more competing for that simulator and the other resources. Without wishing to sound like a negative person, the reality of that school at the moment is not good, the delays are extreme. They cannot even manage standard ATPL course, MPL? I am interested to see how that will go!

Anyway despite all these problems, it's different for you. You have Turkish Airlines behind you, whatever happens in the end you will be OK. The real problem is for those with more mickey mouse ACMI airlines from eastern europe or self sponsored cadets who are missing out on job opportunities and need good training to be able to compete for a job afterwards, Turkish will take care of you.

Last edited by tecnamflyer; 21st Apr 2019 at 22:59.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 07:50
  #218 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: above clouds
Posts: 3
It is actually an ATPL. we were thinking an MPL program like you, but the company clearly stated that it will be an ATPL. Yes the company is behind us, in fact they will regularly visit BAA to inspect both cadets and academy (training and everything). I think BAA promised a training time to the company and idk what will happen if any delays occur. the meetings between BAA and the company took months.

We heard if Turkish Airlines finds training good, they might send new cadets in future.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 12:07
  #219 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: anywhere
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by aviatorfromIST View Post
It is actually an ATPL. we were thinking an MPL program like you, but the company clearly stated that it will be an ATPL. Yes the company is behind us, in fact they will regularly visit BAA to inspect both cadets and academy (training and everything). I think BAA promised a training time to the company and idk what will happen if any delays occur. the meetings between BAA and the company took months.

We heard if Turkish Airlines finds training good, they might send new cadets in future.
What i can say about the standard of the training and the amount of things I saw are having no end. But they will end in me being sued probably - which I cannot afford right now. There are maybe 1/2 diamonds, really good, all other are rotten, i saw things i cannot believe and will never forget. The diamonds do not stay for long though.

Again, you have Turkish Airlines behind you, it is a totally different scenario, they will take care of you regardless of what BAA do, it will be their responsibility. Also as i am understanding it will not be money from your own pocket? Turkish pay for your transport, rent etc etc? Also then the hits the school love to give will not affect you so much, except the wasted time and frustration with the delays. It is more a problem for self sponsored cadets who have to fund for themselves the mess BAA create for everybody.

Basically not a good school, but a good strong airline is taking care of you ... should be fine.

I am also bit surprised though BAA is taking on so much work, they lost so many instructors, regular VFR instructors and also top seniors, chief pilot, head of training etc, people who the school's operation would have absolutely collapsed entirely some months back if they were not there with moving to spain, not just for being instructors but for there personalities. They went absolutely above and beyond what is normal, all because they wanted to help the students ... BAA was not grateful to them 1 bit.

I'm not knowing what is the plan of the school because so far are no replacements and market in general for instructors right now is very difficult. Forget about experienced instructors who can lead the operation from the top as chief pilot, HOT, they really lost some guys that cannot be replaced, not without very long time and trial/error with some not so good people. It seems ground school is the only area BAA is doing a bit OK. For me it was messy but now looks not so bad from the guys i speak to.
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Old 22nd Apr 2019, 14:38
  #220 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: above clouds
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by tecnamflyer View Post
Again, you have Turkish Airlines behind you, it is a totally different scenario, they will take care of you regardless of what BAA do, it will be their responsibility. Also as i am understanding it will not be money from your own pocket? Turkish pay for your transport, rent etc etc? Also then the hits the school love to give will not affect you so much, except the wasted time and frustration with the delays. It is more a problem for self sponsored cadets who have to fund for themselves the mess BAA create for everybody.
Yes, all expenses covered by the airline, we are already hired, and working for them (as cadets
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