The perpetual 'Am I too old?' thread
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Hey guys, I'm 22 (graduated from uni in Summer 2016) and feel like all the guys and gals I'll be going up against during training will be 18 year olds (when they start training), how accurate is this view?
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Jbaldwin95, You'll have nothing to worry about.
I currently work as an ATPL theory instructor for a fairly moderate commercial training school.
In a class of 22, the youngest student we have is 17, we have a couple of 19 yr olds, the oldest is in his forties, and we have someone in their 50s joining in Jan. The average age is mid 20s with quite a few in their late twenties.
Genrally speaking I see the modular students are mid to late twenties and above, the integrated students are usually straight from school give or take a few years.
I currently work as an ATPL theory instructor for a fairly moderate commercial training school.
In a class of 22, the youngest student we have is 17, we have a couple of 19 yr olds, the oldest is in his forties, and we have someone in their 50s joining in Jan. The average age is mid 20s with quite a few in their late twenties.
Genrally speaking I see the modular students are mid to late twenties and above, the integrated students are usually straight from school give or take a few years.
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Much appreciated PaulH, you have certainly put my mind at ease!
On an unrelated note, would you reccommend the commercial training school you teach at for the intergrated route and what kind of success rate do you guys have in terms of airline progression of cadets?
(feel free to decline answering).
On an unrelated note, would you reccommend the commercial training school you teach at for the intergrated route and what kind of success rate do you guys have in terms of airline progression of cadets?
(feel free to decline answering).
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Our integrated course has been running for just shy of two years. As a result we've only had a handful of student finish the course, although we currently have12-15 inergrated students studying with us both doing ATPLs and currently flying, both in the UK and the US. Two of the finished students have gone straight to Flybe, finishing in July and Sept.
The modular course that we run makes up about +60% of our students have sent people (over the last 3 or so years) to Ryanair, Jet2, Easyjet, DHL, CityJet, SkyBus, Flybe, Aurigny, Loganair, and a host of small charter and private jet companies.
I would be biased in saying 'Yes' to your question, but I did all my training where I now work, and I've just gotten into a jet operator. So......yes.
The modular course that we run makes up about +60% of our students have sent people (over the last 3 or so years) to Ryanair, Jet2, Easyjet, DHL, CityJet, SkyBus, Flybe, Aurigny, Loganair, and a host of small charter and private jet companies.
I would be biased in saying 'Yes' to your question, but I did all my training where I now work, and I've just gotten into a jet operator. So......yes.
Last edited by Paul H; 15th Dec 2016 at 11:28.
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Just thought I would weigh in to comment on the absolute positive atmosphere on the last couple of pages of this thread - its fantastic. I was just getting extremely extremely frustrated over the amount of keyboard warriors and naysayers in these forums who log in only to vent their frustrations about their careers during the bad times on people coming up in the better times (sometimes I think people in training post things on here to trim the competition by scaring them away!) . Congrats to you all and good luck to those who, like me, had to work in the real world for a decade (or two or three or four apparently) in order to be able to start chasing the dream now!
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Well said QLC. I'm certainly noticing a trend of 'older' guys career changing. Having personal funds available and a fall back career certainly removes a lot of the risks...
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Thanks Basil Fawlty1, I would say the best thing about working the real world for a while (especially if you started flying young like me then stopped to earn "big bucks" and progress a career) is that it removes any doubt in your mind that this is what you want to do. I could one day work for the worst airline in the world with the worst on/off ratio and its still gonna be a million times better than my last job!
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QLC - Have read a few of your posts recently with interest, I'm in a similar position to you (got my PPL in my mid twenties but shelved the commercial flying ambitions to chase $ in a high paying job I despised). Almost 10y later I'm seriously considering returning to pilot training. I'm probably still 6m-1y away from starting but I'd be interested to hear how you get on so hopefully you will post some updates.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Last edited by Gav28; 23rd Dec 2016 at 01:41.
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Gav28 - I was the same, it took me about 9 months to plan, squirrel away savings and do all my research while leaving my old job without burning bridges (I have the option of doing short or long term contracts for the next 5 years as a nice backup)
I would do it if I were you! and yeah just PM me if you ever want an update, but I have a long way to go!
I would do it if I were you! and yeah just PM me if you ever want an update, but I have a long way to go!
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I am 36 about to start flight training hopefully getting an airline job. I was thinking of taking one step at a time rather than signing up for an integrated program. I have high blood pressure and i know under CAA the medication i am taking is allowed.
Has anyone come across anyone with high blood pressure and who has successfully got a job after their training? thanks.
Has anyone come across anyone with high blood pressure and who has successfully got a job after their training? thanks.
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First of all, Paul, sincere congratulations. You deserve what you’ve achieved
You really applied yourself, never gave up and now have made the opportunity to get on with the job you’ve always dreamt of.
Now you’ll need all of the qualities you’ve shown to continue and progress in the business.
There’ll be times when you get fed up of not enough time at home with the family.
There’ll be times when you’re so tired you’ll wonder which way is up.
You’ll get fed up of the times when, every 6 months, someone tries to pull your skills apart, tries to find fault with your flying and yet still you’ll get through with the same enthusiasm you’ve obviously always shown.
There’ll be times when you wonder if you’re really valued when, once again, salaries are frozen to “help the company get through the downturn”. You just tighten your financial belt and try and ride it as you’ve always done. It usually sorts itself in the end.
As you get older, these irritations will seem to be more important. Your medical will eventually show signs of letting you down and yet, still, you’ll get your head down and cope.
All these travails will reveal themselves in your coming career. Be ready for them and devise mechanisms and a health regime to carry you through.
Flying is the best career in the world; never forget that when it gets tough or when some sh*t tries to spoil it.
Plan your career from now on with these thoughts in mind and you'll have a wonderful, rewarding time ahead.
I’m just coming to the end after 57 years as a professional pilot. I don’t regret a minute of it.
You really applied yourself, never gave up and now have made the opportunity to get on with the job you’ve always dreamt of.
Now you’ll need all of the qualities you’ve shown to continue and progress in the business.
There’ll be times when you get fed up of not enough time at home with the family.
There’ll be times when you’re so tired you’ll wonder which way is up.
You’ll get fed up of the times when, every 6 months, someone tries to pull your skills apart, tries to find fault with your flying and yet still you’ll get through with the same enthusiasm you’ve obviously always shown.
There’ll be times when you wonder if you’re really valued when, once again, salaries are frozen to “help the company get through the downturn”. You just tighten your financial belt and try and ride it as you’ve always done. It usually sorts itself in the end.
As you get older, these irritations will seem to be more important. Your medical will eventually show signs of letting you down and yet, still, you’ll get your head down and cope.
All these travails will reveal themselves in your coming career. Be ready for them and devise mechanisms and a health regime to carry you through.
Flying is the best career in the world; never forget that when it gets tough or when some sh*t tries to spoil it.
Plan your career from now on with these thoughts in mind and you'll have a wonderful, rewarding time ahead.
I’m just coming to the end after 57 years as a professional pilot. I don’t regret a minute of it.
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starting at 32?
Hi Everyone. I will try to make my post as brief yet informative as possible, so you can help me out.
I’ve always wanted to be a pilot since a very early age. I’ve always been reading about airplanes and learning more everyday and I was a crazy home simmer. I couldn’t afford to start training after high school graduation. I had a bachelor degree in business management and I started making my way in productions plants firms.
At 32 now, I realized that I might be wasting my time doing what I don’t enjoy as a job. Then this idea of “its never too late hit me”. I am single, have savings that can make me afford to start now. I am an Egyptian who lives in Egypt. I asked my flag carrier airline if they accept older pilots and they have an age restriction of 28, but yet again I can work anywhere as long as I will be flying.
Am I crazy to shift entirely my career at this age and leave my secure paying job? Is it doable? How long will it take me to have an ATP license? How much will it cost me (have around 60k $ in savings)I guess cheapest place for me would be the US? Can I make it to airlines? From where should I start?
I know nothing is definitive in this world, I might get lucky or not. But given the facts, what are the chances to start training at 32 and seeking a career in a “foreign country regional/airlines”.
Cheers
I’ve always wanted to be a pilot since a very early age. I’ve always been reading about airplanes and learning more everyday and I was a crazy home simmer. I couldn’t afford to start training after high school graduation. I had a bachelor degree in business management and I started making my way in productions plants firms.
At 32 now, I realized that I might be wasting my time doing what I don’t enjoy as a job. Then this idea of “its never too late hit me”. I am single, have savings that can make me afford to start now. I am an Egyptian who lives in Egypt. I asked my flag carrier airline if they accept older pilots and they have an age restriction of 28, but yet again I can work anywhere as long as I will be flying.
Am I crazy to shift entirely my career at this age and leave my secure paying job? Is it doable? How long will it take me to have an ATP license? How much will it cost me (have around 60k $ in savings)I guess cheapest place for me would be the US? Can I make it to airlines? From where should I start?
I know nothing is definitive in this world, I might get lucky or not. But given the facts, what are the chances to start training at 32 and seeking a career in a “foreign country regional/airlines”.
Cheers
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I am 29, ended up doing a work from home job I dislike (but that gives me almost unlimited freedom to live where I choose). I had 180 hours but was incredibly harsh on myself whenever I had a bad flight, and I ended up disliking the whole thing.
I have always missed it though and time is a ticking. Perhaps a few years without flying have changed my mentality and I will start to enjoy it and be less hard on myself whenever something goes wrong.
I have always missed it though and time is a ticking. Perhaps a few years without flying have changed my mentality and I will start to enjoy it and be less hard on myself whenever something goes wrong.
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Hi all I'm in my early 30s and was wondering if there was any guys or girls same sort of age group who have gone down the integrated route i.e. Ctc fte oaa either mpl or whitetail who have gained employment with ezy ryr etc do these airlines prefer younger cadets or do I stand the same chance as someone fresh out of education
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But I don't know for sure.
And you can easily find a "small" job in aviation in the US, instruction, regional airlines...
Not a good idea to come in EU i think !
From my experience, I finished training 2 years ago, applied pretty much everywhere possible, no airline jobs if you are more than 40 with no Hours. There is no official age limit, like you can have in asia or ME, it's illegal in EU. But it applies, believe me !
I fly corporate wich is way more fun ! And they like older guys.
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It saddens me somewhat that someone who is mid to late thirties would be deemed as "over the hill" by some airlines. I'm a trainee train driver in my mid twenties, I'm the "baby" of the course, the average age is 36 and the oldest is 51. The two oldest folks on the course (49 and 51) have consistently been getting stronger exam results than many of the younger folks. Oldest trainee I've ever heard of was 55 when he started.
Since the training is fully funded by the company and is more expensive than a fATPL plus TR, they'd have a lot to lose if these folks left early, however the company is willing to put the investment in since they reckon the life experience these trainees have outweighs the shorter career length.
I was at two airline assessment days last year and the average age was most likely mid twenties at the max. Someone well into their forties could quite easily reach a command and spend a good ten years in the left hand seat, the airline (if applicable) and trainee would get a good return on investment I reckon. That is, if the airline employed them of course.
Since the training is fully funded by the company and is more expensive than a fATPL plus TR, they'd have a lot to lose if these folks left early, however the company is willing to put the investment in since they reckon the life experience these trainees have outweighs the shorter career length.
I was at two airline assessment days last year and the average age was most likely mid twenties at the max. Someone well into their forties could quite easily reach a command and spend a good ten years in the left hand seat, the airline (if applicable) and trainee would get a good return on investment I reckon. That is, if the airline employed them of course.
Learning to drive a train is more expensive than getting a fATPL+TR? Excuse my ignorance, I thought those things were just FWD-STOP-REV. Maybe an extra lever for the doors?
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The train driving training takes 12-18 months. First is 8 weeks of Rules (16 weeks if it's interspersed with time spent in the cab shadowing a driver). I imagine the principle of it is similar to ATPL theory, most of your time is in a classroom with a series of exams on things like signalling, emergency evacuations etc.
Next up is Traction. This time it's looking at the systems on the trains you'll be driving (isolation cocks, circuit breakers amongst many other things). Can last from 4 weeks to 3 months depending on what you have to learn and whether your employer has a centralised defect management. Think of it as a type rating without driving a train.
The longest bit is out with a Driver Instructor, you'll spend typically a year with one of these driving real trains with more than a thousand real passengers on them during the peak, I imagine it's broadly similar to line training in the aviation world. The Driver Instructor is a fully qualified driver who's most likely on over £50k a year. At the end of it all you'll have a 5-7 day exam with your manager covering everything you've learned. If you pass, you're now a driver.
Don't want to digress further, after all it's a thread about ageism in aviation, not trains. Nontheless, I do think the airlines could learn a few things from the railway world when it comes to recruiting older folk, who more often than not turn out to be very good drivers.
I hear that some of the niche sectors within aviation are a bit more open minded than some, plus some of the big boys will look at candidates who are 40-ish, though from what I can tell it gets difficult at 35-plus. Obviously, instructing is a different world but if I were in the left hand seat of a multi-crew aircraft I'd probably want someone with a bit of life experience next to me.
Next up is Traction. This time it's looking at the systems on the trains you'll be driving (isolation cocks, circuit breakers amongst many other things). Can last from 4 weeks to 3 months depending on what you have to learn and whether your employer has a centralised defect management. Think of it as a type rating without driving a train.
The longest bit is out with a Driver Instructor, you'll spend typically a year with one of these driving real trains with more than a thousand real passengers on them during the peak, I imagine it's broadly similar to line training in the aviation world. The Driver Instructor is a fully qualified driver who's most likely on over £50k a year. At the end of it all you'll have a 5-7 day exam with your manager covering everything you've learned. If you pass, you're now a driver.
Don't want to digress further, after all it's a thread about ageism in aviation, not trains. Nontheless, I do think the airlines could learn a few things from the railway world when it comes to recruiting older folk, who more often than not turn out to be very good drivers.
I hear that some of the niche sectors within aviation are a bit more open minded than some, plus some of the big boys will look at candidates who are 40-ish, though from what I can tell it gets difficult at 35-plus. Obviously, instructing is a different world but if I were in the left hand seat of a multi-crew aircraft I'd probably want someone with a bit of life experience next to me.