The perpetual "Am I too old? question 2010
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I am not writing this from a breadth of experience in airline employment, as indeed I'm a career changer too, doing it rather late in life but not preturbed.
I do agree with something that FANS says and that is:
If you have a wealth of management / executive / professional experinence under your belt and you change career, I would believe you would have a far better crack at getting your foot in the door than someone who has been working in a pub for the last 10 years and decided to go for it.
There are an awful lot of people on this forum moaning about not getting a flying job but you never know what their suitability for employment is beyond their frozen ATPL.
I do agree with something that FANS says and that is:
it also depends hugely on you as a person and what you've been doing for the last 10 + years.
There are an awful lot of people on this forum moaning about not getting a flying job but you never know what their suitability for employment is beyond their frozen ATPL.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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1, Timing, get it right. Don't rush now as the market in the UK is f-cked.
2, Luck, you make your own. It won't be handed to you on a plate.
3, Network network network and then network some more
4, Positive mental attitude
5, Smile and believe in yourself
6, Never give up
7, Keep sending CV's, e-mails, letters and keep making phonecalls
2, Luck, you make your own. It won't be handed to you on a plate.
3, Network network network and then network some more
4, Positive mental attitude
5, Smile and believe in yourself
6, Never give up
7, Keep sending CV's, e-mails, letters and keep making phonecalls
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I hope that Muddy Boots is right. I am almost 43 years old and have decided to get crackin on my PPL and see how the landscape looks from there.
I have worked as a commercial lawyer for a time and now work for an airline as a commercial manager, having completed an MBA a couple of years ago. And yes I have a wife and child to share my life..
No-one is offering me a job here at this airline, but I will be continuing to ask what the criteria are for hiring and whether or not I am automatically discounted for not being "29 years old". So far, the response has been that age is not an issue - there are just a number of hurdles to clear before anyone can talk about hiring me as a pilot...like learning to fly and passing medicals.
Otherwise, I recognise that I will be taking a pay cut - but if life were just about making more and more money, everyone would work for one of the big banks....zzzzzzzzz...
If I can get into commercial flying of one sort or another by age 45 I will have a crack at something big soon thereafter - and still be able to offer almost 20 years of flying to an employer...not many people are with any employer for that long nowadays. And I am flexible as to type of aircraft and job...
I hear around and about that a pilot shortage is likely to happen in about 5 years (again)..but its just whispers....all good for me if its true though, I reckon.
My best mate has also moved on from being a motorcycle mechanic to doing his AME apprenticeship - he really is paid crap at the moment...and he has two kids. But we all find a way to get thru when we have to...
I would think that anyone younger than me has a serious chance at getting a gig, all things considered. It is me who has to wait and see if it pans outs...I won't fail thru lack of effort though I can tell you !!
good luck to all of you givin it a go!
I have worked as a commercial lawyer for a time and now work for an airline as a commercial manager, having completed an MBA a couple of years ago. And yes I have a wife and child to share my life..
No-one is offering me a job here at this airline, but I will be continuing to ask what the criteria are for hiring and whether or not I am automatically discounted for not being "29 years old". So far, the response has been that age is not an issue - there are just a number of hurdles to clear before anyone can talk about hiring me as a pilot...like learning to fly and passing medicals.
Otherwise, I recognise that I will be taking a pay cut - but if life were just about making more and more money, everyone would work for one of the big banks....zzzzzzzzz...
If I can get into commercial flying of one sort or another by age 45 I will have a crack at something big soon thereafter - and still be able to offer almost 20 years of flying to an employer...not many people are with any employer for that long nowadays. And I am flexible as to type of aircraft and job...
I hear around and about that a pilot shortage is likely to happen in about 5 years (again)..but its just whispers....all good for me if its true though, I reckon.
My best mate has also moved on from being a motorcycle mechanic to doing his AME apprenticeship - he really is paid crap at the moment...and he has two kids. But we all find a way to get thru when we have to...
I would think that anyone younger than me has a serious chance at getting a gig, all things considered. It is me who has to wait and see if it pans outs...I won't fail thru lack of effort though I can tell you !!
good luck to all of you givin it a go!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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G SXTY has it right - timing.
I'm on my way through watching the third cycle in my aviation awareness span - I have not flown since 2000 professionally and never attained a rank higher than Navajo driver. But... I'm getting back into it now with a three year plan, specifically for timing. 2500 TT and 500 ME right now does not qualify me for a RHS job w/ a good 737 or A320 operator, but that all changes once people start retiring (Air Canada expects an increase in the annual exodus now and into the near future - while at the same time economic conditions - being cyclical, are likely to improve.)
As a 39 year old (you heard that right) who is looking for RHS job (to start) with a great Canadian co., I think that being ready for the next three years is likely to be ideal. Consider that the US and Europe drive a good chunk of the now heavily interdependent global economy. Once the hangover and deluge wears off from the great collapse of credit markets etc, there is a good chance that there simply won't be enough candidates.
Now, ofcourse, there's a good chance I'm just smoking my own concoction of fantasy and that nothing will happen. Ready for that eventuality too - but I've invested a fair bit in IPC checks and ATPL studying so that I'm ready willing and able.
I'd love to know what others think - My thinking is that at 42 or so I want to be ready.
As a 39 year old (you heard that right) who is looking for RHS job (to start) with a great Canadian co., I think that being ready for the next three years is likely to be ideal. Consider that the US and Europe drive a good chunk of the now heavily interdependent global economy. Once the hangover and deluge wears off from the great collapse of credit markets etc, there is a good chance that there simply won't be enough candidates.
Now, ofcourse, there's a good chance I'm just smoking my own concoction of fantasy and that nothing will happen. Ready for that eventuality too - but I've invested a fair bit in IPC checks and ATPL studying so that I'm ready willing and able.
I'd love to know what others think - My thinking is that at 42 or so I want to be ready.
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timing
Hey all,
I found out today that Boeing estimates that 18,000 pilots per annum will need to be trained to fill the front seats in aviation until 2028. As airframe manufacturers, I would think that their estimates are likely to be well considered projections as to their market in the coming years.
Interestingly, even with the downturn, both Boeing and Airbus still delivered a large proportion of the aircraft ordered for delivery in the past 12 months. I cant remember the exact numbers, but we are looking at well above 90 % of the aircraft ordered.
That's good news for everyone.
looking forward to my flying lessons this weekend !!!!!!!
PP
I found out today that Boeing estimates that 18,000 pilots per annum will need to be trained to fill the front seats in aviation until 2028. As airframe manufacturers, I would think that their estimates are likely to be well considered projections as to their market in the coming years.
Interestingly, even with the downturn, both Boeing and Airbus still delivered a large proportion of the aircraft ordered for delivery in the past 12 months. I cant remember the exact numbers, but we are looking at well above 90 % of the aircraft ordered.
That's good news for everyone.
looking forward to my flying lessons this weekend !!!!!!!
PP
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Don't get to excited. Firstly, those figures are bound to be on the high side. Secondly, most of the growth will be in Asia and the ME. Think work permits, not speaking the right language etc etc. India is already kicking out foreign licence holders. Other countries allow TRE/TRI or direct entry captains only.
Unfortunately there will never be a huge demand for 250hr low timers.
Unfortunately there will never be a huge demand for 250hr low timers.
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Potkettleblack has it quite correct. There will NEVER be any lack of applicants for ANY flying job. Jets, props, instructing inclusive.
Age has become largely irrelevant; more given the fact that older applicants are likely to be able to fund 500hrs Line Training P2F.
With 500 Hrs A320 / 737 etc aged 45 you will still get hired every time infront of a 20 year old 200hrs FATPL. FACT.
I think that P2F has actually given a ready route to the older career changer. Still with at least 20 years of potential work in them.
I have said it before; my private owner operates 2 business jets and actively prefers older pilots. He finds little in common with the 20 somethings, so the 'grey hairs' get our vote every time. Indeed a 50 year old that had funded 500 hrs jet time would be an attractive proposition. The jet hours are a requisite for insurance and the age means he has other skills to help within our small team.
Please; no one be put off by any you're over 40 cobblers.
Age has become largely irrelevant; more given the fact that older applicants are likely to be able to fund 500hrs Line Training P2F.
With 500 Hrs A320 / 737 etc aged 45 you will still get hired every time infront of a 20 year old 200hrs FATPL. FACT.
I think that P2F has actually given a ready route to the older career changer. Still with at least 20 years of potential work in them.
I have said it before; my private owner operates 2 business jets and actively prefers older pilots. He finds little in common with the 20 somethings, so the 'grey hairs' get our vote every time. Indeed a 50 year old that had funded 500 hrs jet time would be an attractive proposition. The jet hours are a requisite for insurance and the age means he has other skills to help within our small team.
Please; no one be put off by any you're over 40 cobblers.
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Its great to hear these positive comments regards the 'older' guys. Im almost 36 and half way thru the ATPL theory. I gave up a great career and well paid salary to persue my dream. Iv read the drivel about 'when you past 27 your past it' and i cant believe people write that. I know a few over 40's that were hired on jets as their first jobs , the most inspiring was a guy who was hired by TUI on 737's with 400 hours , hes just starting at Qatar on the 777.
I was told by a 'young gun' that the best i could hope for would be a regional turboprop job as i will be 37 when i complete the fATPL and that i was just plain stupid for giving up a secure job , car and good salary , well everyone has their story and mine was watching a 33 year old relative take their last breath thru Cancer , now that changed my life for the better and gave me the kick up the harris that i needed !
Thinking i was on the old side i now realise that after speaking to a few training captains that they would take age and experience over youth and inexperience every time , unfortunately most human remains departments are not of that way of thinking .
Also having a ton of money in equity in my house as iv been grafting these past 18 years is also of benefit to fund my training
I was told by a 'young gun' that the best i could hope for would be a regional turboprop job as i will be 37 when i complete the fATPL and that i was just plain stupid for giving up a secure job , car and good salary , well everyone has their story and mine was watching a 33 year old relative take their last breath thru Cancer , now that changed my life for the better and gave me the kick up the harris that i needed !
Thinking i was on the old side i now realise that after speaking to a few training captains that they would take age and experience over youth and inexperience every time , unfortunately most human remains departments are not of that way of thinking .
Also having a ton of money in equity in my house as iv been grafting these past 18 years is also of benefit to fund my training
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Don't get too excited and keep your feet firmly placed on the ground. The inspiring story that you refer to is more than just an exception to the rule, believe me. Its rough out there even when its good, you will need experience to compete for proper jobs (i.e full time contract with a proper employer) that means private health care/ pension/ uniform/ medical/ proper hotac on layover/ staff travel etc etc for any of you ryanairesque drones reading this. The bull**** above spouted about our greying heros who pay for 500hrs jet time and being preferred over Tarquin fresh out of OAT + P2F and pots of cash = rubbish. A 2 horse outfit is no comparison to an airline run by beancounters, your boss may prefer the oldies but I doubt that will apply across the board.
Lower your sights and get real, 36/ 26 whatever, it is still a nightmare to land a decent career in aviation don't let the warm feeling get in the way of reality. This is and will always be one of the hardest nuts to crack career wise anywhere.
Lower your sights and get real, 36/ 26 whatever, it is still a nightmare to land a decent career in aviation don't let the warm feeling get in the way of reality. This is and will always be one of the hardest nuts to crack career wise anywhere.
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SR believe me , ivfriends who work for the 'real' airlines you speak of , i also know the SH 1 T they have had to get there , my feet are firmly planted my friend , im chasing the dream but not stupid enough to throw away everything iv worked for in the mean time.
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How old is too old?
I'm a 42 year old male recently made redundant by a large Pharmaceutical company with a generous redundancy package. I'm in excellent health. I have always entertained the idea (in my dreams at least) of being a pilot. I'm an MS Flight Sim junkie for years and I've spent an absloute fortune on making the whole "Sim" experience as realistic as possible. My question is very simple really....am I too old to start pilot training with view to a career in the cockpit? Even if I did manage to qualify would an employer view me as a poor longterm investment?
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You probably don't want to hear this but yes you are probably too old.
Likely to be mid-forties by the time you get the license and the step down in pay/lifestyle you would have to take (and your family) even if you got a FO job would be more stress than it is worth.
Go get a PPL and fly for pleasure. Once you have done that then reassess how you feel about it all. Do not go integrated at your age that would be throwing money down the drain.
I would check out the local flying club and check out the lay of the land for getting a PPL as the first step.
Beware the "go for it" brigade... normally they just want your money. As always in life a bit of realism and moderation is needed.... the world is still a very very shakey place and you may need that redundancy money so don't blow it all.
Likely to be mid-forties by the time you get the license and the step down in pay/lifestyle you would have to take (and your family) even if you got a FO job would be more stress than it is worth.
Go get a PPL and fly for pleasure. Once you have done that then reassess how you feel about it all. Do not go integrated at your age that would be throwing money down the drain.
I would check out the local flying club and check out the lay of the land for getting a PPL as the first step.
Beware the "go for it" brigade... normally they just want your money. As always in life a bit of realism and moderation is needed.... the world is still a very very shakey place and you may need that redundancy money so don't blow it all.
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Thank you for responding.
Grass Strip Basher...there is a lot of sense in what you say. I was reviewing some threads on "terms and conditions" and I can already invisage some frustration with very low wages. Hardly what you'd expect after such a large investment of both time and money. As you imply, that would be something a younger person would be prepared to take. I've already been to college, got qualified and crawled the ladder to good T&C's. I'm not sure I have the stomach, or the lifespan, to go through that again.
I will, however do the PPL ASAP and continue to review the situation.
A friend of mine qualified here www.atlanticair.ie/private-pilot-license.aspx and recommends them.
Grass Strip Basher...there is a lot of sense in what you say. I was reviewing some threads on "terms and conditions" and I can already invisage some frustration with very low wages. Hardly what you'd expect after such a large investment of both time and money. As you imply, that would be something a younger person would be prepared to take. I've already been to college, got qualified and crawled the ladder to good T&C's. I'm not sure I have the stomach, or the lifespan, to go through that again.
I will, however do the PPL ASAP and continue to review the situation.
A friend of mine qualified here www.atlanticair.ie/private-pilot-license.aspx and recommends them.
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Hi,
if its something you really want to do, then go for it. However, it is a good idea to get some guidance and advice from others who have been through the system.
I am pretty sure there will be some companies that will employ pilots who are older but inexperienced, particularly if you can convince them of no desire to move on.
Timing plays a large part in the whole thing. A buddy of mine got his command in Virgin after 20 months, its more likely 15 plus years now !.
If i could wind the clock back 21 years, knowing what i know now, i would have chosen another career for sure.
Good luck to all.
Rgds.
if its something you really want to do, then go for it. However, it is a good idea to get some guidance and advice from others who have been through the system.
I am pretty sure there will be some companies that will employ pilots who are older but inexperienced, particularly if you can convince them of no desire to move on.
Timing plays a large part in the whole thing. A buddy of mine got his command in Virgin after 20 months, its more likely 15 plus years now !.
If i could wind the clock back 21 years, knowing what i know now, i would have chosen another career for sure.
Good luck to all.
Rgds.
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the most inspiring was a guy who was hired by TUI on 737's with 400 hours , hes just starting at Qatar on the 777.
