Integrated (f)ATPL Training - Flight Training Europe v CTC Wings

[Ben-B]

I'm in my final year of my degree (Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies, at Leeds University) and am looking at applying for an integrated ATPL course.

I have taken and passed assessments for Flight Training Europe, and have been invited for an interview.

I have also informally spoken with CTC when they came to the university, and they suggested that students on my course wouldn't have a problem with the application stages, or if they did, it would be a fundamental personality problem (arrogance, bad teamwork etc).


Which of the two FTOs do you guys think is better, and why?

Also any tips, advice etc for the interviews would be great.


Thanks, BB

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

SCREAM!!


God I hope you're not a troll because if you are you got me.


Please please please tell me that you can't get to the final year of a DEGREE (FFSK!) in Pilot Studies and not have just some inkling about the state of the profession and the chances of being hired.

Wannabe Zombie Army. They're everywhere, and where the hell do they keep getting the money from?!?


WWW

[student88]

Gob smacked.

[SW1]

Ben, I was on your course at Leeds. I graduated in July 2008 and watched all my fellow wide eyed mates go off to these FTOs with the total conficence they would be sitting in a RHS now. 2 who went to FTE were tagged on the Cityjet scheme, one is now travelling while the other sells power from a call centre, the others at CTC have no jobs and if they are in training still, they chat on facebook beating their chests that they got 99% in their last ATPL exam- who cares? No jobs skygod!!!!

Maybe they should introduce career talks and other relevant modules, other than computational fluid dynamics, and not from that Lee Woodward or whoever comes in and gives you all the **** and spiel while you dribble at the former students dressed in pilots unifom at the front of Houldsworth lecture theatre A, thinking you will be them!!!

PS I did modular, am up to my eyeballs in debt, and ive only got half the debts you will have. Sorry to rain on your parade but thats the truth. Good luck with the degree and enjoy the summer ball.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I can offer a visiting professorship to Leeds if you like. I suspect I'd know damn sight more about Pilot Studies than any of your course lecturers..

Hmm. There's an idea for my retirement years.


WWW

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

BSc Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies - Coursefinder - University of Leeds


Good grief these people are living in cloud cuckoo land:

You will benefit from specialist input into the curriculum, through the involvement of professional pilots and senior managers from the aviation industry.

We have strong links with industry and Leeds Aviation graduates are highly sought after by employers. Careers in the airline and aviation industries are wide-ranging, and employment prospects are excellent

(my emphasis)


I've always thought that these degrees were useless, time consuming and expensive. Not a real degree. Not a real advantage. No use on the job. No use as a backup career. Probably boring and probably crammed full of very thick books lacking pictures.

Who advises wannabe commerical pilots to do them? Is it Careers Officers or something?


WWW

[SW1]

WWW, maybe you could do attend one of these seminars posing as a mature student, leavers hoodie and NY Yankees cap will be provided, and then pose some questions to Mr Woodward et al. I fully agree that you know more than my lecturers did about the Aviation business. The thing is though, these lecturers actually work on behalf of the flight schools. I had an email from a certain "DR" asking me whether I was still interested in attending a large FTOs assessment, as I had ingnored the schools previous emails. These academics, who many students respect, are not showing the whole picture, modular training, let alone any talk of recession was never ever mentioned. Although to give them some credit, I dont think anyone knew it would be this bad around October 07.

I did it for the cheap PPL, 3300 in my day...

[Ben-B]

Thanks for your input, I guess


I KNOW the industry is not in a good place at the moment... but having spoken to airlines (BA and FlyBe mainly) back in April 09 at the Flyer exhibition, they both said that definitely within three years the industry would be back in a good place, possibly sooner.

I graduate in July, and was looking at taking a few months to work then take a holiday, so start at one of them towards the end of 2010. If it takes nearly 18 months to do all the training and type rating etc, then that is towards the middle of 2012, more than two years from now.

[Ben-B]

I never said I was believing everything I've been told... before today I had been told very different things, both of them can't be right. I was just mentioning some of the things I have been told, and not just by the FTOs.


The glossy mags haven't "really got to me", I am currently looking into integrated. I will also be looking into other routes, ie modular, MPL etc

I may take a year out to do something else, work for a bit then do a few months travelling, or work for the whole time to get a bit more money.

I haven't made any solid decisions yet, and I'm not going to make any decisions lightly either...

I may be new to the forum but don't talk to me like I'm an idiot

[ba038]

Ben-b - Dont Train Intergrated!!!.full Stop.!

[UAV689]

today at gatwick whilst eating a tasty lunch waiting for my next atpl exam i met a chap that was a ctc'er.

chatting to him I could not believe that before his course he had never stepped foot in an aircraft, yet decided to shed many 1000's on the integrated course.

He also still believes CTC when they tell him they will get him a job with their partner airlines, i asked him about the flexi crew bolleaux and he just shrugged his sholders and said a job is a job...

I cant believe the mentality of this lot, it really beggers believe that people are still signing up to this sh*it! The sales people at integrated schools could either sell ice to eskimos or these zoombies are canopy lickers that dont have a basic grasp of how the world works! He is loaned up to the eyeballs and I know for a fact he hasnt a clue what his first wage will be, and how big the loan is! At one point he even said he might end up flying for logan air in their buckets, the complete arrogrance p*ssed me off..he said it as if a job with them is a bad thing.

I find it mental that someone can spend that much wonga and not of even been up in a glider for £5 to see if they get air sick at a minium!

Tomorrow I am not going to talk to anyone as talking to that zoombie muppet put me in a foul mood for the exam and i dont want to risk that tomorrow!

[redsnail]

Rarely at these industry meet n greets do they tell the bitter truth.

I was at the BALPA Wannabe forums way back in 2001. While most said that they weren't recruiting per se but it "all looked ok". Only one person, the chief pilot of Maersk Air said the truth. (He's now with easyJet looking at his base being closed). He said how dire the industry is, that there's no jobs and none in the foreseeable future. He was right, it wasn't until 2004 before recruitment really got going. 2005-2006 for low houred pilots.

Most airlines rarely tell "how it is" in public domains such as forums like Flyer etc.

[Ben-B]

I've already got my JAR-PPL with night rating.

Wanted to be a pilot as long as I can remember... it's in the blood, grandparents and uncles are pilots.

I'm certain I want to do it, so it's not money I'm going to waste on something I find out I don't wanna do

[fischerflyer]

but having spoken to airlines (BA and FlyBe mainly) back in April 09 at the Flyer exhibition, they both said that definitely within three years the industry would be back in a good place, possibly sooner

Dont believe what they say. In some respects theyre as bad as the FTOs. At the end of the day its in their best interests to have a large of pool of trained wannabes looking for jobs. Because when they want to grow again they have the resources there. And in the case of the sleazyjet-scam, the airlines make money from zombies in the form of "line training packages". Trust no one!!

[UAV689]

Ben I believe it is in your blood, just like it is in everyone elses here, it ain't gonna get you a job though! Your only 20 take it slow and debt free. I rekon you can easy drag out the training saving for 5 years and be all the better for it, have a fall back career, no debt, life experience.

You don't want to be the first pilot in your family tree out of work do you?

[Whirlygig]

I've already got my JAR-PPL with night rating.

So you're already on the way for modular training Why do an integrated course?

Cheers

Whirls

[thetimesreader84]

Not surprised at Ben-B's attitude, from what I have heard about the course. Nothing but fluff and buzzwords, and I work with someone who graduated from it at the start. Apparantly it has gone downhill since then.

One thing, do you still get lectures in "Airline Economics"? Can you really not take what is going on in the world, add in what you learn about airline economics, and come to a sensible answer?

Be interested to see where the Almuni from this course are now, and whether they got there on the merit of their university degree or their bank balance.

TTR

[student88]

Ben, if I was you the only Cockpit I'd be going anywhere near at the moment is the one underneath Leeds station. At least you can get fd there AND have a good time whilst doing it.

Even if I had the money I wouldn't go integrated. Simple as that.

[ford cortina]

Ben-B,

Your first post..

I'm in my final year of my degree (Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies, at Leeds University) and am looking at applying for an integrated ATPL course.

I have taken and passed assessments for Flight Training Europe, and have been invited for an interview.

You then hit back with this......

I KNOW the industry is not in a good place at the moment... but having spoken to airlines (BA and FlyBe mainly) back in April 09 at the Flyer exhibition, they both said that definitely within three years the industry would be back in a good place, possibly sooner.

Next you claim this.....

I never said I was believing everything I've been told... before today I had been told very different things, both of them can't be right. I was just mentioning some of the things I have been told, and not just by the FTOs.

Also contradict yourself with this....

The glossy mags haven't "really got to me", I am currently looking into integrated. I will also be looking into other routes, ie modular, MPL etc

Finally this....I

'm certain I want to do it, so it's not money I'm going to waste on something I find out I don't wanna do

So you want to do intergrated at FTE or CTC, but you might look at modular, thought about doing a mintergrator* course instead? You have been told by BA and Flybe that you will have no problem getting a job in three years because the business will be in a 'good place'.

You ask us not to call you an idiot, know one has by the way, yet you blindly ignore what anyone has to say that is against your mindset, which could be taken as arrogant, might not help you with the CTC selection, according to you.....

would be a fundamental personality problem (arrogance, bad teamwork etc

You plan on spending at least £69,000 on the CTC wings program, plus extras and you are not going to waste money, glad to hear it, at 20 and in University you must have amassed a fortune, good for you. Otherwise of course family are going to have to stump up for you.

I would not say you were an idiot, just blindly confused young man who cannot see the wood for the trees. You have already decided on a course of action and just want some reassurance, sorry we cannot help. Best of luck in your training and I do hope to hear you in the sky over Europe on day at 37,000ft.

*Mintergrator is a trade mark of Ftoamultictfttc inc.... and for more information please go to this address www.throwmoneyawayatdodgydavesflightschool.biz