What it's like to spend £65,000 and not get a job
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: East Molesey, Surrey, UK
What it's like to spend £65,000 and not get a job
Flightglobal.com has just put up an article about five student pilots who graduated with frozen ATPLs and can't find jobs. Worth a read at Training to fly a desk
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
I read this in Flight International yesterday over France. I thought CTC got off very lightly. They are still selling the dream to new customers whilst in the background they have dozen and dozens and dozens and yet more dozens of ex-customers living a nightmare.
A nightmare where your crappy wages are swallowed by your loan repayments so you have to live with your parents and pretend you're 16 again.
Sure, Caveat Emptor. But still.
WWW
A nightmare where your crappy wages are swallowed by your loan repayments so you have to live with your parents and pretend you're 16 again.
Sure, Caveat Emptor. But still.
WWW
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 16
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From: ADL
Great read and very realistic.I was amzed although not surprised when the guy mentioned his flight traning buddies are working in a vast range of jobs-from working in the city to selling ice-creams!
WWW is right. But did you seriously expect him to say anything negative about CTC?
WWW is right. But did you seriously expect him to say anything negative about CTC?
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 29
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From: The Shire
Why ever not? Is there a gagging clause in that contract where they handed over £65,000???
I do understand and empathise with their position though, any bad word against the silver tongued sales crowd down at Dibden could put pay to the already slim chances of CTC holding up their part of the "bargain" (obligatory duty in my opinion).
Very interesting read having personally trained through the same time period/scale as them, albeit not with CTC and (needless to say) for far less £.
It didn't seem to me that any of them were doing all that badly? I know of far less desirable positions from a number of my own course mates.
Lord Farquhar certainly seems to have landed on his feet and the fella acting f/o on Citations - not a bad little foot in the door.
I do understand and empathise with their position though, any bad word against the silver tongued sales crowd down at Dibden could put pay to the already slim chances of CTC holding up their part of the "bargain" (obligatory duty in my opinion).
Very interesting read having personally trained through the same time period/scale as them, albeit not with CTC and (needless to say) for far less £.
It didn't seem to me that any of them were doing all that badly? I know of far less desirable positions from a number of my own course mates.
Lord Farquhar certainly seems to have landed on his feet and the fella acting f/o on Citations - not a bad little foot in the door.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
Why not join BALPA and have them send it through the post to you each month?
BMI Baby now planning to lay off nearly 60 highly experienced B737 pilots in the UK. BMI mainline and regional announcements soon.
WWW
BMI Baby now planning to lay off nearly 60 highly experienced B737 pilots in the UK. BMI mainline and regional announcements soon.
WWW
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 148
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From: Surrey UK/Quebec CA
You are right about CTC, yet the people I know have loans at 100k and don't even seemed phased by the fact that they will need to be on £30k just to pay off the minimum each month.
Maybe part of the CTC course (free for anyone paying more that £50k) is learning how to be so oblivious to the sheer amount of debt that they are getting themselves into.
I had a thought the other day. I wonder if when airlines do start recruiting, they are going to favour those with a more stable lifestyle?
Stable, home-owner, no debts, 2 cars and a dog.
vs
Struggling, bankrupt, zero credit rating, 1 bus pass and a starvin dog.
Does that come into it?
Maybe part of the CTC course (free for anyone paying more that £50k) is learning how to be so oblivious to the sheer amount of debt that they are getting themselves into.
I had a thought the other day. I wonder if when airlines do start recruiting, they are going to favour those with a more stable lifestyle?
Stable, home-owner, no debts, 2 cars and a dog.
vs
Struggling, bankrupt, zero credit rating, 1 bus pass and a starvin dog.
Does that come into it?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 410
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From: UK
An interesting thread, but not one post giving first hand account of the struggle to make payments without flying employment.
I wonder if anyone has filed insolvency?
We must therefore assume that, no matter how much money has been 'spunked', all flight training debt's are being serviced.
I wonder if anyone has filed insolvency?
We must therefore assume that, no matter how much money has been 'spunked', all flight training debt's are being serviced.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,503
Likes: 1,846
From: England
As I've been roundly condemned for saying in the past - there are loads of Wannabes going bankrupt and shed loads more planning or going to be forced to. There are even two threads running on the private CTC forum about it (your defences are weak Dibden).
Its the only sensible thing to do. Owe £75k+ and scratching a living whilst living with parents and owning nothing = go bankrupt. You'd be certifiable not to.
Really. Certifiable.
WWW
Its the only sensible thing to do. Owe £75k+ and scratching a living whilst living with parents and owning nothing = go bankrupt. You'd be certifiable not to.
Really. Certifiable.
WWW
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
From: UK
I would be fascinated to know how much debt has been potentially accrued.
I flew with a young chap earlier in the week that had spent 100k+!
Luckily, he's working; but just imagine had things been different.
Still no posts from anyone facing 'flying debt' problems. Not One!
This thread might serve to highlight difficulties in an under resourced aviation industry but, so far, we are compelled to assume all's well.
I flew with a young chap earlier in the week that had spent 100k+!
Luckily, he's working; but just imagine had things been different.
Still no posts from anyone facing 'flying debt' problems. Not One!
This thread might serve to highlight difficulties in an under resourced aviation industry but, so far, we are compelled to assume all's well.
.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 274
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From: Warks
I finished modular training in 2004, still working as a flying instructor 5 years later. Spent about £50000 in total, escaped with only £26000 debt due to spreading it out over a few years and selling my house for a small profit.
Now in 2009 I am still £22000 in debt. The reason I have paid off so little is that when I first started instructing I was bringing in less than £10k a year. Loan repayments plus rent added up to about £750 per month (more than my monthly take-home) so was actually having to borrow more money each month to make the repayments on other loans. Basically was just moving money from loan to loan.
Am now on a half-decent salary as an instructor and am just breaking even each month. As a result the debt has started going down at a faster rate. However, my flying school is looking like it's going to close soon. I haven't even been paid for last month so am working for free already. I have no idea how I am going to continue to make my repayments and pay my rent. It's only during the last few months I've even managed to break even, and it's going tits up already.
I have no idea why people would take on £60000 debt in one go. When I trained and borrowed money, I assumed that I wouldn't find a job and would have to make the repayments on a low wage. I think that's the safest way.
Now in 2009 I am still £22000 in debt. The reason I have paid off so little is that when I first started instructing I was bringing in less than £10k a year. Loan repayments plus rent added up to about £750 per month (more than my monthly take-home) so was actually having to borrow more money each month to make the repayments on other loans. Basically was just moving money from loan to loan.
Am now on a half-decent salary as an instructor and am just breaking even each month. As a result the debt has started going down at a faster rate. However, my flying school is looking like it's going to close soon. I haven't even been paid for last month so am working for free already. I have no idea how I am going to continue to make my repayments and pay my rent. It's only during the last few months I've even managed to break even, and it's going tits up already.
I have no idea why people would take on £60000 debt in one go. When I trained and borrowed money, I assumed that I wouldn't find a job and would have to make the repayments on a low wage. I think that's the safest way.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 410
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi Flinty,
I have been up since 04.15. My tiny brain is working flexi time; presently enjoying 'un petit vin rouge'. How can anyone be black-balled on pprune?
Our friend the 'Token Bird' has courageously, given an insight into her situation. Thank you.
I just wonder/hope, if the industry was laid bare, might we be able to change? Frankly, IMHO, this lady above others deserves a break. (Unlike those soley focused on paying their 'dowry' and destroying our collective future).
I have been up since 04.15. My tiny brain is working flexi time; presently enjoying 'un petit vin rouge'. How can anyone be black-balled on pprune?
Our friend the 'Token Bird' has courageously, given an insight into her situation. Thank you.
I just wonder/hope, if the industry was laid bare, might we be able to change? Frankly, IMHO, this lady above others deserves a break. (Unlike those soley focused on paying their 'dowry' and destroying our collective future).
Last edited by BigNumber; 4th November 2009 at 20:33.