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What it's like to spend 65,000 and not get a job

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What it's like to spend 65,000 and not get a job

Old 4th Nov 2009, 10:48
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What it's like to spend 65,000 and not get a job

Flightglobal.com has just put up an article about five student pilots who graduated with frozen ATPLs and can't find jobs. Worth a read at Training to fly a desk
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 10:58
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This looks like a case of a Ryanair SSTR for this lot.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 11:08
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I read this in Flight International yesterday over France. I thought CTC got off very lightly. They are still selling the dream to new customers whilst in the background they have dozen and dozens and dozens and yet more dozens of ex-customers living a nightmare.

A nightmare where your crappy wages are swallowed by your loan repayments so you have to live with your parents and pretend you're 16 again.


Sure, Caveat Emptor. But still.


WWW
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 11:10
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Great read and very realistic.I was amzed although not surprised when the guy mentioned his flight traning buddies are working in a vast range of jobs-from working in the city to selling ice-creams!

WWW is right. But did you seriously expect him to say anything negative about CTC?
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 12:30
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Why ever not? Is there a gagging clause in that contract where they handed over 65,000???

I do understand and empathise with their position though, any bad word against the silver tongued sales crowd down at Dibden could put pay to the already slim chances of CTC holding up their part of the "bargain" (obligatory duty in my opinion).

Very interesting read having personally trained through the same time period/scale as them, albeit not with CTC and (needless to say) for far less .

It didn't seem to me that any of them were doing all that badly? I know of far less desirable positions from a number of my own course mates.

Lord Farquhar certainly seems to have landed on his feet and the fella acting f/o on Citations - not a bad little foot in the door.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 12:32
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seeing yet more experienced drivers are being made redundant at BMI Baby, great time to blow 65K
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 13:11
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BALPA's The Log page 16 is also a great read

Last edited by EGCC4284; 4th Nov 2009 at 13:48.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 14:26
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Why not join BALPA and have them send it through the post to you each month?


BMI Baby now planning to lay off nearly 60 highly experienced B737 pilots in the UK. BMI mainline and regional announcements soon.

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Old 4th Nov 2009, 16:16
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You are right about CTC, yet the people I know have loans at 100k and don't even seemed phased by the fact that they will need to be on 30k just to pay off the minimum each month.

Maybe part of the CTC course (free for anyone paying more that 50k) is learning how to be so oblivious to the sheer amount of debt that they are getting themselves into.

I had a thought the other day. I wonder if when airlines do start recruiting, they are going to favour those with a more stable lifestyle?

Stable, home-owner, no debts, 2 cars and a dog.

vs

Struggling, bankrupt, zero credit rating, 1 bus pass and a starvin dog.

Does that come into it?
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 17:45
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Being totally desperate for each months pay cheque would suit most airlines would be my guess..

WWW
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 17:48
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Good calls Weasly boyo.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 17:59
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An interesting thread, but not one post giving first hand account of the struggle to make payments without flying employment.

I wonder if anyone has filed insolvency?

We must therefore assume that, no matter how much money has been 'spunked', all flight training debt's are being serviced.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 18:09
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"Never in the field of human endeavours, has so much money been spent, by so many, for so little."
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 18:11
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As I've been roundly condemned for saying in the past - there are loads of Wannabes going bankrupt and shed loads more planning or going to be forced to. There are even two threads running on the private CTC forum about it (your defences are weak Dibden).

Its the only sensible thing to do. Owe 75k+ and scratching a living whilst living with parents and owning nothing = go bankrupt. You'd be certifiable not to.

Really. Certifiable.


WWW
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 18:17
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I would be fascinated to know how much debt has been potentially accrued.

I flew with a young chap earlier in the week that had spent 100k+!

Luckily, he's working; but just imagine had things been different.

Still no posts from anyone facing 'flying debt' problems. Not One!

This thread might serve to highlight difficulties in an under resourced aviation industry but, so far, we are compelled to assume all's well.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 18:21
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WWW,

This being the case, why will no one speak out?

If you are correct, and I think you are, where are all the posts?
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 18:33
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"What it's like to spend 65,000 and not get a job"

Its like getting a shave in an expensive parlour without knowing the fact that its going to grow again.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 19:15
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Originally Posted by Big Number
......why will no one speak out?............where are all the posts?
I suspect they fear being blackballed.
 
Old 4th Nov 2009, 19:19
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I finished modular training in 2004, still working as a flying instructor 5 years later. Spent about 50000 in total, escaped with only 26000 debt due to spreading it out over a few years and selling my house for a small profit.

Now in 2009 I am still 22000 in debt. The reason I have paid off so little is that when I first started instructing I was bringing in less than 10k a year. Loan repayments plus rent added up to about 750 per month (more than my monthly take-home) so was actually having to borrow more money each month to make the repayments on other loans. Basically was just moving money from loan to loan.

Am now on a half-decent salary as an instructor and am just breaking even each month. As a result the debt has started going down at a faster rate. However, my flying school is looking like it's going to close soon. I haven't even been paid for last month so am working for free already. I have no idea how I am going to continue to make my repayments and pay my rent. It's only during the last few months I've even managed to break even, and it's going tits up already.

I have no idea why people would take on 60000 debt in one go. When I trained and borrowed money, I assumed that I wouldn't find a job and would have to make the repayments on a low wage. I think that's the safest way.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 19:44
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Hi Flinty,

I have been up since 04.15. My tiny brain is working flexi time; presently enjoying 'un petit vin rouge'. How can anyone be black-balled on PPRuNe?

Our friend the 'Token Bird' has courageously, given an insight into her situation. Thank you.

I just wonder/hope, if the industry was laid bare, might we be able to change? Frankly, IMHO, this lady above others deserves a break. (Unlike those soley focused on paying their 'dowry' and destroying our collective future).

Last edited by BigNumber; 4th Nov 2009 at 20:33.
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