Oxford Aviation Academy. What does everyne think of it?
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GDF
if you cant see that from his ridiculous posts then you are also clearly in the wrong place
yeah fair enough looks like he may be dreaming. BUT! he is 16, probably exstatic that he may have the chance to oneday, be a pilot! I just don't think name calling is very......nice! There are other ways to talk to people. I just know how it feel to know you could finally have your dream, common you must know what thats like too! Finally, you do know more then me, your a bloody working pilot and im tryin to learn from everyone i can.
cheers
S
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Absolutley Scott. Then why put your post #65 with a title "A**holes"?
Not having a go, but as Ive said a few times, we wouldn't speak to each other like that in the real world, or I hope not, but why on forums??? And there are a few of us on here who are current airline pilots, and trying to pass on the benefit of our experience, and the pitfalls too as we've all been there, to those following, as in our previous posts regarding your own position (which I wasn't trying to knock, just offer my opinion on your situation).
True, there are some posters who could express themselves better admittedly, however the general case is the regulars have no axe to grind genuinely, and when young guys ask for advice, and their inexperience or exhuberance takes them to a place which winds people up, well, ok, you will get some of the inevitable replies I'm afraid.
Not having a go, but as Ive said a few times, we wouldn't speak to each other like that in the real world, or I hope not, but why on forums??? And there are a few of us on here who are current airline pilots, and trying to pass on the benefit of our experience, and the pitfalls too as we've all been there, to those following, as in our previous posts regarding your own position (which I wasn't trying to knock, just offer my opinion on your situation).
True, there are some posters who could express themselves better admittedly, however the general case is the regulars have no axe to grind genuinely, and when young guys ask for advice, and their inexperience or exhuberance takes them to a place which winds people up, well, ok, you will get some of the inevitable replies I'm afraid.
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Tristan, forgive me for not writing a longer reply earlier, but I had to go to work. I still feel amazed at some of the responses you have received. They made me feel increasingly angry all day. By way of a (hopefully) sensible reply:
If you are lucky enough to have family who can back you financially then I would argue that you should consider going to university, then do your flight training. By the time you have finished your A Levels and your degree, the current downturn in jobs will almost certainly be over and you will be better placed to get a good return on the investment of flight training – something that will arguably be an awful lot more difficult in the current economic climate.
No one can tell you which is better (CTC vs OAA) as no one has done fATPLs at both and can compare. For my part I did my fATPL at Oxford and my airline sent me to CTC for the type rating. I was far more impressed with the training at Oxford, but (far more importantly) up until recently CTC had the better employment record. At the moment both have equally poor employment statistics and that looks like it is set to continue for a good while yet.
So, in a nutshell, if you can afford it, sit out the current downturn at Uni. At the end of it you will have had the best years of your life and the current downturn in jobs will almost certainly be over. Graduate from university at 21, finish flight training at 22, that leaves 43 years to enjoy the flight deck.
If you are lucky enough to have family who can back you financially then I would argue that you should consider going to university, then do your flight training. By the time you have finished your A Levels and your degree, the current downturn in jobs will almost certainly be over and you will be better placed to get a good return on the investment of flight training – something that will arguably be an awful lot more difficult in the current economic climate.
No one can tell you which is better (CTC vs OAA) as no one has done fATPLs at both and can compare. For my part I did my fATPL at Oxford and my airline sent me to CTC for the type rating. I was far more impressed with the training at Oxford, but (far more importantly) up until recently CTC had the better employment record. At the moment both have equally poor employment statistics and that looks like it is set to continue for a good while yet.
So, in a nutshell, if you can afford it, sit out the current downturn at Uni. At the end of it you will have had the best years of your life and the current downturn in jobs will almost certainly be over. Graduate from university at 21, finish flight training at 22, that leaves 43 years to enjoy the flight deck.
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Oxford grads '09
daraireland
As you wish here is my estimation of what the OAA numbers are so far this year! Basically every month one course finishes, the course average, I think, is about 20 students. So if we take to the end of this month thats 7 courses or 140 grads, however there was a double course that finished around Jan/Feb time so we can add another 20 to this, thats 160 grads give or take a few that have finished this year!
Out of this 160, the OAA website states that 67 "OAA graduates have gained First Officer employment so far during 2009." However when you break this down and look at it closely the true figures are totally different!
So lets examine- AFAIK the 2 Aer Lingus grads are both in the hold pool and by the looks of things that won't be touched anytime soon, definitely not in '09 anyway. I know the guy that has gone to Amsterdam Airlines and he's not really an OAA grad considering all he did was the six months ground school and finished there in early '08! The grad who went to Fly Niki is on one of those pay to fly schemes so that can hardly be considered as actual employment, and he'll probably be kicked out on his backside in a few months when he has flown the hours he paid for!
Flinstone what you said
in relation to the Netjets cadets is partially untrue. 7 of the 15 guys that graduated have been offered employment and are currently flying the line, all these guys and gal finished in January! However the other 8 have not been so lucky and have not yet got start dates and probably won't either!
And then we come to the Ryanair cadets, 38 grads have been offered employment in '09, however the actual amount that will start this year will definitely be a lot less. Also in this 38 there are at least 10 grads who would not actually be considered in my 160 total estimation above as they all finished before X-mas but only gained employment in '09. Anyway out of the 38 I think there are only around 16-17 who have actually received contracts with RYR and are defintely started/ starting type rating! The rest either have provisional TR dates or are waiting for them. As has been said on another thread the remaining TR's of '09 are being pushed back to Spring of next year with the exception of the October course(but this will almost definitely be cut too). So when you look at it there are actually only 6/7 '09 grads that have been employed by RYR this year not the 38 quoted on the OAA website!!
So that leaves us with the Thomas Cook grads and the other sprinkling of guys. In fairness the 6 TC grads have been taken on and are currently flying the line so thats true, however I heard they may be grounded for the winter months! And the others- 1 at Air Southwest, 1 at KLM, 1 at Blink and another at Kenya Airways, not sure if these are true but lets presume they are.
With all of the above taken into account these are the numbers you are looking for dara,
Total Graduates 2009= Around 160
Total Graduates employed in 2009= Around 24
Percentage Graduates employed in 2009= 15%
Hope this was of some help to you dara, of course I can't say these figures are 100% accurate but I would definitely say there at least 95%
Regards,
Right 78 students employed in 2009 so far...
How many students finished in 2009 so far? Come on, someone must know.
Are numbers dropping for the coming months classes?
No agenda here, just want numbers,
How many students finished in 2009 so far? Come on, someone must know.
Are numbers dropping for the coming months classes?
No agenda here, just want numbers,
Out of this 160, the OAA website states that 67 "OAA graduates have gained First Officer employment so far during 2009." However when you break this down and look at it closely the true figures are totally different!
So lets examine- AFAIK the 2 Aer Lingus grads are both in the hold pool and by the looks of things that won't be touched anytime soon, definitely not in '09 anyway. I know the guy that has gone to Amsterdam Airlines and he's not really an OAA grad considering all he did was the six months ground school and finished there in early '08! The grad who went to Fly Niki is on one of those pay to fly schemes so that can hardly be considered as actual employment, and he'll probably be kicked out on his backside in a few months when he has flown the hours he paid for!
Flinstone what you said
You might want to ask how many of those in particular about the Netjets cadets. By publishing those numbers OAC have tried to make it look like they placed them in jobs, they didn't. NJ set up their cadet scheme and went looking for a training provider. The candidates paid for their own course and OAC took the money. OAC have said that as far as they are concerned all NJ cadets are deemed employed when they leave their premises which is blatantly untrue.
Take a guess how many of them have jobs. Zero.
Take a guess how many of them have jobs. Zero.
And then we come to the Ryanair cadets, 38 grads have been offered employment in '09, however the actual amount that will start this year will definitely be a lot less. Also in this 38 there are at least 10 grads who would not actually be considered in my 160 total estimation above as they all finished before X-mas but only gained employment in '09. Anyway out of the 38 I think there are only around 16-17 who have actually received contracts with RYR and are defintely started/ starting type rating! The rest either have provisional TR dates or are waiting for them. As has been said on another thread the remaining TR's of '09 are being pushed back to Spring of next year with the exception of the October course(but this will almost definitely be cut too). So when you look at it there are actually only 6/7 '09 grads that have been employed by RYR this year not the 38 quoted on the OAA website!!
So that leaves us with the Thomas Cook grads and the other sprinkling of guys. In fairness the 6 TC grads have been taken on and are currently flying the line so thats true, however I heard they may be grounded for the winter months! And the others- 1 at Air Southwest, 1 at KLM, 1 at Blink and another at Kenya Airways, not sure if these are true but lets presume they are.
With all of the above taken into account these are the numbers you are looking for dara,
Total Graduates 2009= Around 160
Total Graduates employed in 2009= Around 24
Percentage Graduates employed in 2009= 15%
Hope this was of some help to you dara, of course I can't say these figures are 100% accurate but I would definitely say there at least 95%
Regards,
Guest
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Originally Posted by RYR&P
....in relation to the Netjets cadets is partially untrue.
You need to take into account what's happening at NJ at the moment. The threat of 300 layoffs unless enough people bid for voluntary redundancy, job share, leave of absence. The deadline for bids passed last week and they're now getting down to the nitty-gritty of who goes and who stays. I don't know how many cadets bid for VR or a jobshare (year on, year off on 60% pay) but I don't think you can count on all seven being there.
Back on topic though it speaks volumes about Oxford's manipulation of the figures (as you've demonstrated) that they claim those as being gainfully employed when they know damn well they are nothing of the sort.
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it speaks volumes about Oxford's manipulation of the figures (as you've demonstrated) that they claim those as being gainfully employed when they know damn well they are nothing of the sort.
What gets up the noses of Pprune regulars are the new weekly posts that arrive with guys asking about CTC, OAA etc. The old ppruners impart their knowledge regarding "don't believe the hype" yet the replies they receive are in defence of the FTO. The newbie will only be satisfied with at least one response telling him/her want they want to hear - and then they are prepared to ignore the 100 posts to the contrary.
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Hi
Had a friend who attended oxford, he told me it was a lot of money for their name above the letter head.
The ground school was good. Flying in the U.S was really bad. Instructors, scheduling and maintainance all a mess.
I would suggest you take the modular route, save the money you would spend / borrow at Oxford for the moment.
Perhaps jump in the car and arrange appointments with a number of schools and consider the ground school while holding down a job. Then when things slowly improve move forward.
If you took this route and had to pay for a type rating in the future you would not owe the same amount of money and would have hopefully reduced your risks etc.
Had a friend who attended oxford, he told me it was a lot of money for their name above the letter head.
The ground school was good. Flying in the U.S was really bad. Instructors, scheduling and maintainance all a mess.
I would suggest you take the modular route, save the money you would spend / borrow at Oxford for the moment.
Perhaps jump in the car and arrange appointments with a number of schools and consider the ground school while holding down a job. Then when things slowly improve move forward.
If you took this route and had to pay for a type rating in the future you would not owe the same amount of money and would have hopefully reduced your risks etc.
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Alrite guys,
Yes, i may also be another optimistic 17 year old looking to go to oxford, but i just wanted to say something about this topic.
Everyone is talking about going to university to get a degree before doing any training, and i presume the reason for this is to have a backup plan and a chance of employment if it all goes wrong, however OAA is now also offering a degree course in airline operations and mangement (or something like that) for no extra cost, surely this is a much better alternative that doing a degree beforehand, as you will come out of oxford with all the required licenses and a degree, which surely means that you are more employable to airlines, and you also have some sort of qualification in order to find another job if you cannot secure one with an airline soon after?
And what about if university is not for you?
Cheers
Yes, i may also be another optimistic 17 year old looking to go to oxford, but i just wanted to say something about this topic.
Everyone is talking about going to university to get a degree before doing any training, and i presume the reason for this is to have a backup plan and a chance of employment if it all goes wrong, however OAA is now also offering a degree course in airline operations and mangement (or something like that) for no extra cost, surely this is a much better alternative that doing a degree beforehand, as you will come out of oxford with all the required licenses and a degree, which surely means that you are more employable to airlines, and you also have some sort of qualification in order to find another job if you cannot secure one with an airline soon after?
And what about if university is not for you?
Cheers
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Different times and different opinions but I was really pleased with Oxford. You'll get the same stories about every FTO. My opinion, great quality instructors, good study material and they know what they are doing. Aircraft are getting a bit old and issues with weather in the UK that can create problems with your IR. USA flying was awsome.
Oxford Career Center also got me my job within 8 weeks after finishing. But those were the good times. Especially in these bad times you'll need connections and reputation. And that's what Oxford provides.
Oxford Career Center also got me my job within 8 weeks after finishing. But those were the good times. Especially in these bad times you'll need connections and reputation. And that's what Oxford provides.
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RYR and Proud,
I don't think you quite have the facts straight. Oxford put the NetJets cadets on the list when they started their type rating and they became NetJets employees a few weeks before that when they attended Indoc at Lisbon and went on the payroll. If you want to drop the NetJets cadets out of the employed column, then you have to drop them out of the 160 estimate too. There were 48 per year, so drop your 20 down to 16 per course. Your post simply proves that people on both sides of an argument can abuse statistics. I follow one of the Aer Lingus guys on Facebook and he's definitely flying A320s out of Gatwick. I have no reason to doubt the other one is too.
Oxford doesn't claim the ones placed this year also graduated this year nor do they claim that they placed them all. The course is more than a year long, so you can't even use yearly intake meaningfully even if you know what it is. The report states "The great majority of these were as a direct result of placement facilitation through OAA; but some were also achieved through graduate efforts themselves."
Considering Oxford ran the selection and provided the training for the NetJets Cadets, I'd say they fall squarely into the above disclaimer of 'placement facilitation' but regardless where you want to list or delist them them, at least be consistent on how you do it on both sides of the percentage formula.
Flintstone isn't quite right saying the NetJets cadets don't have jobs. 15 of them are type rated and they had the same five choices all other NetJets pilots were offered. Who knows what choice they made, but given that low hour pilots are plentiful and jobs aren't, I'll bet they opted for job sharing since it keeps them inside NetJets. They could still be let go if voluntary takeup of the five options didn't meet the reduction and cost saving targets, but it's a bit of a fudge to assume they're all gone. Those still at OAA had two options, both pretty generous considering NetJets contractually owed them nothing. One option was voluntary severance pay of 10 months NJE FO base salary. The other was up to three years in the hold pool on reduced salary with a 90 day call back and they can work anywhere they can find a job in any industry while holding. If Oxford adds more to the NetJets 15 on the list, then we'll know they're fudging the facts, but right now you two are fudging.
It would be nice if Oxford gave more data, but the only meaningful statistic would be average time to the 1st job or percent employed at post training increments of say 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21 and 24 months. Average time to the first job can't be given until 100% are employed though and that will never happen since some finish every month, so quarterly benchmarks would probably be the most useful data.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to think an FTO should subtract out any listed graduates if they lose the job. Is there anyone here except maybe Fabbe, Afraz and Tristan who still don't understand it's a cyclical industry? Even these three have been rather heavy handedly disabused of that delusion.
As for the original question, well Artie has undertaken training at both FTOs and has summed it up pretty well, neither is at an advantage for job placement right now, but both are effective when jobs are to be had. The bottom line then is not so much where to train, as it is when to train and that's the exact same conclusion of hundreds of other PPrune threads.
I don't think you quite have the facts straight. Oxford put the NetJets cadets on the list when they started their type rating and they became NetJets employees a few weeks before that when they attended Indoc at Lisbon and went on the payroll. If you want to drop the NetJets cadets out of the employed column, then you have to drop them out of the 160 estimate too. There were 48 per year, so drop your 20 down to 16 per course. Your post simply proves that people on both sides of an argument can abuse statistics. I follow one of the Aer Lingus guys on Facebook and he's definitely flying A320s out of Gatwick. I have no reason to doubt the other one is too.
Oxford doesn't claim the ones placed this year also graduated this year nor do they claim that they placed them all. The course is more than a year long, so you can't even use yearly intake meaningfully even if you know what it is. The report states "The great majority of these were as a direct result of placement facilitation through OAA; but some were also achieved through graduate efforts themselves."
Considering Oxford ran the selection and provided the training for the NetJets Cadets, I'd say they fall squarely into the above disclaimer of 'placement facilitation' but regardless where you want to list or delist them them, at least be consistent on how you do it on both sides of the percentage formula.
Flintstone isn't quite right saying the NetJets cadets don't have jobs. 15 of them are type rated and they had the same five choices all other NetJets pilots were offered. Who knows what choice they made, but given that low hour pilots are plentiful and jobs aren't, I'll bet they opted for job sharing since it keeps them inside NetJets. They could still be let go if voluntary takeup of the five options didn't meet the reduction and cost saving targets, but it's a bit of a fudge to assume they're all gone. Those still at OAA had two options, both pretty generous considering NetJets contractually owed them nothing. One option was voluntary severance pay of 10 months NJE FO base salary. The other was up to three years in the hold pool on reduced salary with a 90 day call back and they can work anywhere they can find a job in any industry while holding. If Oxford adds more to the NetJets 15 on the list, then we'll know they're fudging the facts, but right now you two are fudging.
It would be nice if Oxford gave more data, but the only meaningful statistic would be average time to the 1st job or percent employed at post training increments of say 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21 and 24 months. Average time to the first job can't be given until 100% are employed though and that will never happen since some finish every month, so quarterly benchmarks would probably be the most useful data.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to think an FTO should subtract out any listed graduates if they lose the job. Is there anyone here except maybe Fabbe, Afraz and Tristan who still don't understand it's a cyclical industry? Even these three have been rather heavy handedly disabused of that delusion.
As for the original question, well Artie has undertaken training at both FTOs and has summed it up pretty well, neither is at an advantage for job placement right now, but both are effective when jobs are to be had. The bottom line then is not so much where to train, as it is when to train and that's the exact same conclusion of hundreds of other PPrune threads.
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Ollywood,
An airline industry degree in a cyclical downturn is worth less than a frozen ATPL. BA's first move in the downturn was to make about 1\3 of their management redundant last year. Managers and support staff are usually the first to go when head count needs to be reduced and the highest paid managers are often sent packing first. The degree might be nice for any other number of reasons, but not as a backup plan.
Two types of employees are safest in a recession up to a point; revenue generators and producers.
The marketing and ticket sales teams are the first type and the flight crew and 30 or so other assorted positions that it takes to get and keep a plane in the air are the other type. The sales team in the case of many airlines today are often a bank of web servers and the IT team that run them. Very few managers fit into either category. When the revenue generators (sales) drop in performance, even they and the producers start to get cut and that is where BA are today.
An airline industry degree in a cyclical downturn is worth less than a frozen ATPL. BA's first move in the downturn was to make about 1\3 of their management redundant last year. Managers and support staff are usually the first to go when head count needs to be reduced and the highest paid managers are often sent packing first. The degree might be nice for any other number of reasons, but not as a backup plan.
Two types of employees are safest in a recession up to a point; revenue generators and producers.
The marketing and ticket sales teams are the first type and the flight crew and 30 or so other assorted positions that it takes to get and keep a plane in the air are the other type. The sales team in the case of many airlines today are often a bank of web servers and the IT team that run them. Very few managers fit into either category. When the revenue generators (sales) drop in performance, even they and the producers start to get cut and that is where BA are today.
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Ollywood,
Why the hell would anyone want a management job in an airline? So you can go work with the likes of Michael O'Leary?
Don't put all your eggs in the one basket; recruiters are looking for people who have experience and skills from different backgrounds and industries.
Oh... The degree isn't free - you just paid them 90k.
Why the hell would anyone want a management job in an airline? So you can go work with the likes of Michael O'Leary?
Don't put all your eggs in the one basket; recruiters are looking for people who have experience and skills from different backgrounds and industries.
Oh... The degree isn't free - you just paid them 90k.
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Adios
Looks like I'm not the only one that hasn't got my facts quite right! There is a not a word of a lie in what I said about the Netjets cadets this year, only 7 of the 15 NJE cadets that have graduated since Jan'09 have been offered employment. I don't know why but for some reason, the other 8 cadets, who all graduated from OAA and started working for NJE before X-Mas have been added to the 2009 statistics! It is for this reason that I did not take them into my rough estimations above! Also I never once mentioned dropping the NJE cadets from the employed column so I don't know where you've got that from!
In relation to the Aer Lingus guys, are you sure the guy your following got the job this year and not last! As I know for a fact that one of the guys in the pool is currently working at OAA to pass time, so I see no reason other than yours to presume that the other guy is still in the pool!
To quote you
I agree, and this is exactly what I took into account with my calculations! You seemed to have missed what I was trying to do, but the whole point of my post was to calculate the numbers for the 2009 Oxford Graduatesmeaning I'm only taking into account students that have graduated from OAA since January 2009 none before! Hence the reason why I deducted the 8 NJE cadets as they graduated in 2008 and the same story with the 10 RYR cadets!!!
Also I never said this but I do agree with you! However if you are talking about the Fly Niki guy then really he shouldn't have been on those stats in the first place, he hasn't actually got a job just paid for a TR and however many hundred hours, definitely cannot be considered as employment!
Hope I've cleared things up a bit better now!
Regards,
Looks like I'm not the only one that hasn't got my facts quite right! There is a not a word of a lie in what I said about the Netjets cadets this year, only 7 of the 15 NJE cadets that have graduated since Jan'09 have been offered employment. I don't know why but for some reason, the other 8 cadets, who all graduated from OAA and started working for NJE before X-Mas have been added to the 2009 statistics! It is for this reason that I did not take them into my rough estimations above! Also I never once mentioned dropping the NJE cadets from the employed column so I don't know where you've got that from!
In relation to the Aer Lingus guys, are you sure the guy your following got the job this year and not last! As I know for a fact that one of the guys in the pool is currently working at OAA to pass time, so I see no reason other than yours to presume that the other guy is still in the pool!
To quote you
Oxford doesn't claim the ones placed this year also graduated this year
I think it's a bit of a stretch to think an FTO should subtract out any listed graduates if they lose the job.
Hope I've cleared things up a bit better now!
Regards,
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An airline industry degree in a cyclical downturn is worth less than a frozen ATPL. BA's first move in the downturn was to make about 1\3 of their management redundant last year. Managers and support staff are usually the first to go when head count needs to be reduced and the highest paid managers are often sent packing first. The degree might be nice for any other number of reasons, but not as a backup plan.
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RYR and Proud,
Forgive me for mixing you up with someone else. It was a quote in your post that contained the misinformation about the NetJets Cadets saying none have jobs and indeed you were refuting it. I read to the last post before responding and got the sources of what I was refuting wrong because I didn't refer back to the thread when writing. Also, I didn't accuse anyone of lying. I think some items are being reported as facts, which are not facts, but the authors don't necessarily know their info is wrong.
I stand by what I said about Aer Lingus taking two though. The chap working for OAA is number three, but he's "unofficially" in a hold pool, meaning he's had no formal letter or offer from the airline, just a tip that they want him if they put more A320s into Gatwick. CW of AP273 and one other are definitely type rated and flying A320s out of Gatwick with Aer Lingus. His interview was last year after Christmas, but the job offer came in 2009.
Forgive me for mixing you up with someone else. It was a quote in your post that contained the misinformation about the NetJets Cadets saying none have jobs and indeed you were refuting it. I read to the last post before responding and got the sources of what I was refuting wrong because I didn't refer back to the thread when writing. Also, I didn't accuse anyone of lying. I think some items are being reported as facts, which are not facts, but the authors don't necessarily know their info is wrong.
I stand by what I said about Aer Lingus taking two though. The chap working for OAA is number three, but he's "unofficially" in a hold pool, meaning he's had no formal letter or offer from the airline, just a tip that they want him if they put more A320s into Gatwick. CW of AP273 and one other are definitely type rated and flying A320s out of Gatwick with Aer Lingus. His interview was last year after Christmas, but the job offer came in 2009.
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Re-heat,
Are you disputing that BA chopped management head count last year in a bid to save £50 Million?
I really don't think my advice is very different from what dozens of others on PPrune have written in recent years. Plan B is best if it's in an unrelated industry.
BA's graduate trainee programme is just that, for recent graduates who will work hard for a pittance in exchange for the first rung on the ladder. I doubt that they would be very interested in taking a pilot into it 5-10 years after he/she got a degree then became a pilot and was later made redundant, then spending money training him/her for a management job only to see him bugger off for the flight deck as soon as he is able to. I know low hour pilots who can't get a job in their pre flight school line of work because the interviewers know they will leave as soon as pilot jobs are available again. I doubt BA feel any different about it.
Are you disputing that BA chopped management head count last year in a bid to save £50 Million?
I really don't think my advice is very different from what dozens of others on PPrune have written in recent years. Plan B is best if it's in an unrelated industry.
BA's graduate trainee programme is just that, for recent graduates who will work hard for a pittance in exchange for the first rung on the ladder. I doubt that they would be very interested in taking a pilot into it 5-10 years after he/she got a degree then became a pilot and was later made redundant, then spending money training him/her for a management job only to see him bugger off for the flight deck as soon as he is able to. I know low hour pilots who can't get a job in their pre flight school line of work because the interviewers know they will leave as soon as pilot jobs are available again. I doubt BA feel any different about it.
Last edited by Adios; 26th Jul 2009 at 22:56.
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Oxford
Hi I would not think twice and go to CTC. Oxford have old areoplanes without glass cockpits which makes the IRT more difficult. You will have a much better chance of a job with Easy jet through CTC.
I know many students from Oxford who had a dreadful time there. Theywere delayed months in completeing the course and this was at their costs. There was also a total lack of flying continuity during the IR stage.
On the other hand two friends who went through CTC are both working with Easyjet. Their CTC course went to plan and the diamond twin star was a joy to fly.
You should also look into the academy at Jerez which has the benefit of good weather.
Oxford would beclose to bottom of my list for sure. their PR is good but their delivery does not match the PR
Archie
I know many students from Oxford who had a dreadful time there. Theywere delayed months in completeing the course and this was at their costs. There was also a total lack of flying continuity during the IR stage.
On the other hand two friends who went through CTC are both working with Easyjet. Their CTC course went to plan and the diamond twin star was a joy to fly.
You should also look into the academy at Jerez which has the benefit of good weather.
Oxford would beclose to bottom of my list for sure. their PR is good but their delivery does not match the PR
Archie
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Oxford
I am afraid I do not agree archiemo. Oxford is a very good school. Any delays you get are through weather and unless CTC is now GOD you will struggle not to have weather delays!
As for the old aircraft, yes they are old and yes they are more difficult for the IR as yes they don’t have glass cockpits....... So who may be the better pilot???
I am not going to say that everything is perfect at oxford because its not, however the majority of it is exceptional and the things that aren’t are getting sorted.
The aircraft are old, but are very well maintained and only once during the IR phase did an AC go tech, and that was for a flat tyre that was repaired whilst I stood on the ramp. In phoenix I went thru the course with no technical problems and finished 3 weeks early!
I graduated April this year, a month late, why? Because of the 3 weeks of snow storms we encountered at the start of this year, again nothing to do with Oxford, in fact after the Rwy was shut for the 4th day, they requested the airport get outside contractors in to clear the snow so we can fly! They are always happy to go out of their way to help you in any way they can.
If you are serious about flying and going to Oxford PM me ask any questions you like. If you don’t believe me I can put you in contact with a lot more people like myself.
Happy Landings every one
As for the old aircraft, yes they are old and yes they are more difficult for the IR as yes they don’t have glass cockpits....... So who may be the better pilot???
I am not going to say that everything is perfect at oxford because its not, however the majority of it is exceptional and the things that aren’t are getting sorted.
The aircraft are old, but are very well maintained and only once during the IR phase did an AC go tech, and that was for a flat tyre that was repaired whilst I stood on the ramp. In phoenix I went thru the course with no technical problems and finished 3 weeks early!
I graduated April this year, a month late, why? Because of the 3 weeks of snow storms we encountered at the start of this year, again nothing to do with Oxford, in fact after the Rwy was shut for the 4th day, they requested the airport get outside contractors in to clear the snow so we can fly! They are always happy to go out of their way to help you in any way they can.
If you are serious about flying and going to Oxford PM me ask any questions you like. If you don’t believe me I can put you in contact with a lot more people like myself.
Happy Landings every one
Supercharged PPRuNer
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The school 'A' versus school 'B' debate is all good fun but rather misses the fundamental point - which is that there are currently no jobs for newly qualified pilots. And, given the state of the industry, it's likely to be several years before the situation improves significantly.
In other words, it matters not whether you qualify at Oxford, CTC, FTE or Much-Piddling-In-The-Marsh Flying Club, it's extremely unlikely you'll find a job at the end of it. Note that the schools' marketing people may tell you otherwise - funny that . . .
In other words, it matters not whether you qualify at Oxford, CTC, FTE or Much-Piddling-In-The-Marsh Flying Club, it's extremely unlikely you'll find a job at the end of it. Note that the schools' marketing people may tell you otherwise - funny that . . .
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If you have a dream you have to follow it! If you want it enough you'll get it eventually if you put the effort in! If you go uni, theres always the possibility you'll forget about your dream. Thats what kinda happened to me when i joined the army. If its really what you want and your determined enough then you wont be happy until you're on the road to getting there! Go for it! good luck!