Oxford Aviation Academy. What does everyne think of it?
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Tristan,
I know you are only 16 and you are looking for positive reinforcement of the ideal scenario you have created for yourself. That is fantasy and it is fine. The scenario you alude to above, is at best badly written romantic fiction. You start off quite well, but then leave out big chunks of any allusion to reality.
Good. Support from parents that is recognised and properly employed, is an enormous help in overcoming many of the financial obstacles and some of the emotional pitfalls in embarking on any project or term of study. I am not sure from the way you have punctuated this paragraph, whether they are supporting you by going to university, or whether you believe doing so simply adds to the total costs, but in any event their support should be gratefully embraced.
Yes most definitely a good idea, and study to get good results in them as well.
Have you considered the necessity of also obtaining a class 1 medical certificate before that. A not insignificant number of people find this the first major hurdle. Without it, you cannot obtain the necessary licence. Have you done any flying lessons? Not everybody finds the reality lives up to the romantic notion. Why do you assume you would have "loved every minute of it"? Most courses have periods of tedium and difficulty. This one is no different.
Apply or wait? Dear God, even in times of economic boom, you would be doing plenty of both. 200 hour CPl holders are not what the airlines are after. They want experienced type rated applicants who start generating revenue with minimum input cost. In recent years those integrated candidates who have moved into affiliated airlines type rating courses, have done so because the airline has been enticed to swap input costs for salary. As this practice grew, the jobs that used to exist at the entry level have become revenue earners that need to be churned over. Some of those pilots that became wrapped up in this churn, have found that the vacancies they hoped to fill as a result of their minimum experience are not there, as other airlines have also adopted these practices. What so many people fail to appreciate is that in previous economic cycles, these practices were almost non-existent. The result of them is being masked at the moment by the lack of activity. An economic upturn will simply see a resurgence of these practices. The first officers seat is less of a job and more of a revenue seat at an increasing number of companies.
Bearing in mind my answer to your point number 3, FlyBe is a pioneer of the new MPL licence with its own form of distinctive integrated training. This is an airline specific tailored course that leads on to a type rating and employment within that specific airline. There are commitments within the programme that mean these candidates are likely to have precedence over any other applicants to the company for similar jobs. That company is investing in buildings and infrastructure as a part of this new course. There is a great deal of financial risk (albeit with some element of sponsorship or deferred payment,) on the part of the successful candidates, with the benefit to the company of lower salary scales for the end product and recovery of the sponsorship / deferred payments. These schemes might well be the way of the future, and something for you to research further. Competition is very keen and few are selected. Some of those who are not selected will still be invited to train with the affiliated flying schools (including your own preferred school,) at the candidates own expense, without any of the schemes employer tie ins. In other words, no luck with the airline, but the school still wants your business.
With whom? It is easy to gloss over this vital bit of the puzzle, but who is providing and financing this training? In all probability the training will be something you have to pay for out of your pocket, without any guarantee of anything. Completion of this will still leave you as a little face in a very big crowd. Those "etc's" too can be very significant. They are the realities and changes that affect your life and circumstances.
Where to begin? Ignoring the immense difficulty of achieveing any job at all, much less one that is "amazing", what is your concept of "very good pay"? A cadet salary of £2000 a month before tax/national insurance. Then deduct your repayment costs to the airline or bank for any training loans/bonds you are commited to. Deduct your minimum living costs per month for accomodation/food/clothes/transport/telephone/internet/electric/gas/council tax/ TV licence/insurances/entertainment/subscriptions/depreciation/etc. Deduct costs your employer may compulsory subject you to, but doesn't meet themselves. Then work out how much is left to pay back mum and dad for the OAA course? I would imagine mum and dad have already written off any realistic prospect of seeing this money back in their lifetime. If they haven't they should!
Well I am certainly smiling. None of this appears to provide for any of the myriad of obstacles that affect even the most successful, lucky, and committed of applicants. As I said at the start this is nothing more than romantic prose. As you research further you will realise this and gain a better understanding of the realities of what is involved. You are 16 now. Revisit this thread in 2 years time when you are 18 and have sat your A-levels. It will be interesting to see how your perception has changed with regard to the 7 bullet points, and also how the economic landscape has also changed in that time.
I know you are only 16 and you are looking for positive reinforcement of the ideal scenario you have created for yourself. That is fantasy and it is fine. The scenario you alude to above, is at best badly written romantic fiction. You start off quite well, but then leave out big chunks of any allusion to reality.
I have the financial backing from my parents who will support me through the course with fees and such like. By going to uni. there is even more money to spend out on! This is how i see it:
1.Go and do my a-levels
2.Apply to OAA in 2011 and get in (lets just say i do) Finish the course, loved every minute of it, and pass exams and have my IR, CPL and frozen ATPL licenses.
3. Apply or wait a few months for an offer to come (by this time the economic down time will be over hopefully)
4.lets say flybe contact me for an interview, i go along and go in their sim, if all goes well i land a job!!
5. Training etc.
6. Amazing job, good airline, nice aircraft, very good pay, then finally pay back the money to my parents for the OAA Course.
7.We are all smiling! 
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Have you done any flying lessons?
It just seems that all of you are saying that it is very hard to become a pilot and seems like you turning me away from my lifelong dream. THIS IS WHAT I WANT!! Not a degree! I know its hard and i understand that but i am tough and i can work through it all and i will make it to that right hand seat.
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It may be what you want but it doesn't necessarily mean you will get it. Being a pilot is one of those jobs were you can either do it or you can't. Not everyone who has the same dream as you will make it. You may not make it, you just don't know.
If you don't have a uni degree, you are taking a big risk. Yes, you may do it and get there, but you may not. If you don't, in 5 years time when you are cleaning toilets for a living, you will be kicking yourself. Having a degree is something to fall back on just in case the pilot career doesn't "take off" (excuse the pun).
Unfortunately, you are just about to enter the real world where not everything is as pretty as it may seem. The quicker you learn that, the better
If you don't have a uni degree, you are taking a big risk. Yes, you may do it and get there, but you may not. If you don't, in 5 years time when you are cleaning toilets for a living, you will be kicking yourself. Having a degree is something to fall back on just in case the pilot career doesn't "take off" (excuse the pun).
Unfortunately, you are just about to enter the real world where not everything is as pretty as it may seem. The quicker you learn that, the better
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Ok thanks for the help. Lets break this down a bit. Look at Graduate jobs in 2009 and 2008 at OAA:
GRADUATE JOBS 2009
(Updated 22 June 2009)
AIRLINETOTAL
GRADUATE JOBS 2008
AIRLINETOTAL
Someone who sticks out in that big list. Ryanair! Amazing airline! Whats all this talk about not getting a job at the end??
GRADUATE JOBS 2009
(Updated 22 June 2009)
AIRLINETOTAL
AER LINGUS
2
AIR SOUTHWEST
1
AMSTERDAM AIRLINES
1
BLINK
1
FLY NIKI
1
KENYA AIRWAYS
1
KLM
1
NETJETS EUROPE
15
RYANAIR
38
THOMAS COOK
6
TOTAL FOR 200967GRADUATE JOBS 2008
AIRLINETOTAL
ABELAG
1
AER LINGUS
3
AFRIQIYAH AIRWAYS
1
AIR ASIA
6
AIR GREENLAND
1
AIR ONE
2
AIR SOUTHWEST
6
AMSTERDAM AIRLINES
2
ARKEFLY
1
BA CITYFLYER
1
BMI REGIONAL
2
BRITISH AIRWAYS
36
BRUSSELS AIRLINES
1
CITYJET
1
DARWIN AIRLINE
1
DHL
4
EASYJET
1
FLYBE
21
JETSTREAM EXECUTIVE
1
KELOWNA FLIGHTCRAFT
1
KLM
7
LONDON EXECUTIVE AVIATION
1
LUFTHANSA CITYLINE
1
LUXAIR
1
RYANAIR
78
SKYTAXI
1
THOMAS COOK
5
TIGER AIRWAYS
1
TRANSAVIA
7
TYROLEAN
3
VIRGIN NIGERIA
4
WIZZ AIR
1
TOTAL FOR 2008201Someone who sticks out in that big list. Ryanair! Amazing airline! Whats all this talk about not getting a job at the end??
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No nobody is doing that for its own sake. Yes it is a very difficult career to embark on, but every single professional pilot that ever flew and certainly those that contribute to these threads, did just that.
The problem that resurfaces here time and time again (in fact almost every day,) is this "X-factor" perception. In other words lots of hopefulls who believe that ambition and dreams will overcome any obvious reality, to provide them with what they see as their birthright. This medium of internet forums allows for easy access to both good and bad advice and it provides a medium for those who would otherwise fall by the wayside to have a vocal outlet. In other words whilst not much has changed in reality, a lot has changed in virtual reality.
There are very few pilots who didn't nurture dreams of becoming a pilot one day and that is almost a given. The thing that enabled those who did, to succeed in achieveing their ambition, was the realities they both encountered and employed in the pursuit.
Advice is readily available here, and undoubtably some of it is very good. It is free and you should treat it as you see fit. Utilize it, ignore it, please yourself. At the end of the day you will do whatever you either want to do, or can afford to do. All the rose tinted proclamations and statements of intent are fairly meaningless. A lot of what is perceived on here as "negativity" is based on individuals own experiences, perceptions and opinions that would attempt to stop people from falling into bear traps, or otherwise wasting their time or money. Most of the time it is equally futile!
Flying is a very expensive commitment, and for the vast majority of people not to be taken lightly on that basis alone. Money spent unwisely or recklesslesly has the very real prospect of not only failing to satisfy any of your dreams or ambitions, but also ruining a significant proportion of your life. Many people have found this to their cost.
Personally I don't care what anybody decides. I don't care whether they bleat on about the marketing they were seduced by. I don't care about the perceived expense or unfairness of the training system. I don't care about dreams, or game plans or how young or old someone is. I don't care what they might or might not have to pay for in order to enter the next level of their gamble.
This is a career that demands ability and commitment. It has a high level of natural attrition. It is a difficult and often frustrating path to progression. Some people will eventually make it and many won't. Much of this advice is offered freely from people with a lot of experience in the industry. A lot of it has the potential to help you and hopefully save you future heartache. It is a resource full of fish bones that you will need to pick through carefully. Please yourself how you use the resource.
The problem that resurfaces here time and time again (in fact almost every day,) is this "X-factor" perception. In other words lots of hopefulls who believe that ambition and dreams will overcome any obvious reality, to provide them with what they see as their birthright. This medium of internet forums allows for easy access to both good and bad advice and it provides a medium for those who would otherwise fall by the wayside to have a vocal outlet. In other words whilst not much has changed in reality, a lot has changed in virtual reality.
There are very few pilots who didn't nurture dreams of becoming a pilot one day and that is almost a given. The thing that enabled those who did, to succeed in achieveing their ambition, was the realities they both encountered and employed in the pursuit.
Advice is readily available here, and undoubtably some of it is very good. It is free and you should treat it as you see fit. Utilize it, ignore it, please yourself. At the end of the day you will do whatever you either want to do, or can afford to do. All the rose tinted proclamations and statements of intent are fairly meaningless. A lot of what is perceived on here as "negativity" is based on individuals own experiences, perceptions and opinions that would attempt to stop people from falling into bear traps, or otherwise wasting their time or money. Most of the time it is equally futile!
Flying is a very expensive commitment, and for the vast majority of people not to be taken lightly on that basis alone. Money spent unwisely or recklesslesly has the very real prospect of not only failing to satisfy any of your dreams or ambitions, but also ruining a significant proportion of your life. Many people have found this to their cost.
Personally I don't care what anybody decides. I don't care whether they bleat on about the marketing they were seduced by. I don't care about the perceived expense or unfairness of the training system. I don't care about dreams, or game plans or how young or old someone is. I don't care what they might or might not have to pay for in order to enter the next level of their gamble.
This is a career that demands ability and commitment. It has a high level of natural attrition. It is a difficult and often frustrating path to progression. Some people will eventually make it and many won't. Much of this advice is offered freely from people with a lot of experience in the industry. A lot of it has the potential to help you and hopefully save you future heartache. It is a resource full of fish bones that you will need to pick through carefully. Please yourself how you use the resource.
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Does the dream contain a lot of these elements?
A lot of the marketing certainly does. It is a great bit of fictional embellishment and good for TV advertising and other forms of marketing. The reality will be worlds away though.
A lot of the marketing certainly does. It is a great bit of fictional embellishment and good for TV advertising and other forms of marketing. The reality will be worlds away though.
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Whats all this talk about not getting a job at the end??
Keep believing the numbers
Last edited by T7C; 20th Jul 2009 at 16:04. Reason: grammEr
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"Lies, damned lies and statistics". Benjamin Disraeli 21 December 1804–19 April 1881.
T7C nailed it. You might want to ask how many of those in particular about the Netjets cadets. By publishing those numbers OAC have tried to make it look like they placed them in jobs, they didn't. NJ set up their cadet scheme and went looking for a training provider. The candidates paid for their own course and OAC took the money. OAC have said that as far as they are concerned all NJ cadets are deemed employed when they leave their premises which is blatantly untrue.
Take a guess how many of them have jobs. Zero.
By all means keep spouting this stuff. If you're a genuine wannabee then at best you're an incredible optimist (I'd be harshly honest and say gullible). At worst you're my first guess which is a troll.
T7C nailed it. You might want to ask how many of those in particular about the Netjets cadets. By publishing those numbers OAC have tried to make it look like they placed them in jobs, they didn't. NJ set up their cadet scheme and went looking for a training provider. The candidates paid for their own course and OAC took the money. OAC have said that as far as they are concerned all NJ cadets are deemed employed when they leave their premises which is blatantly untrue.
Take a guess how many of them have jobs. Zero.
By all means keep spouting this stuff. If you're a genuine wannabee then at best you're an incredible optimist (I'd be harshly honest and say gullible). At worst you're my first guess which is a troll.
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Well some of it does contain those elements but i was thinking more like this. Another airline wi ould love to fly for ultimately:
YouTube - Girls in Red - virgin atlantic advert
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V8RIKVpL6wOh
and one more (sorry):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci1LD7NrLBc&feature=related
YouTube - Girls in Red - virgin atlantic advert
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V8RIKVpL6wOh
and one more (sorry):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci1LD7NrLBc&feature=related
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Locarno1, I did the integrated course at oxford, I can say I had a brilliant time, loved my time there. If you want any kind of information about life at OAA, training etc, PM me.
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Much of what everyone has mentioned, more or less said is true.
Im 18 finished my A-levels this year and a clear wannabe......
Locarno1 - i was thinking just like you when i was 16 but now that im 18 i see things differently and have much more of a taste of what the real world out there is like.....
now for my personal advice i will say....yes oaa/ctc....they are all good...BUT .....it doesnt matter how you get your license its about are there jobs available in the time you graduate although thier are many hurdles to jump before that however that is the main question to ask yourself.
what im doing is going to a good uni .....studying what i enjoy for 3 years and then i will see how the industry is looking and take my steps from there......in your case you have plenty of time ....
I cant reiterate the points even more better.....
Do your A-levels .....
Get a degree.
Enjoy your young years and have fun.......
Im 18 finished my A-levels this year and a clear wannabe......
Locarno1 - i was thinking just like you when i was 16 but now that im 18 i see things differently and have much more of a taste of what the real world out there is like.....
now for my personal advice i will say....yes oaa/ctc....they are all good...BUT .....it doesnt matter how you get your license its about are there jobs available in the time you graduate although thier are many hurdles to jump before that however that is the main question to ask yourself.
what im doing is going to a good uni .....studying what i enjoy for 3 years and then i will see how the industry is looking and take my steps from there......in your case you have plenty of time ....
I cant reiterate the points even more better.....
Do your A-levels .....
Get a degree.
Enjoy your young years and have fun.......
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When i was 16 i was planning going into flight training, the industry was looking strong but then lean times started to appear so when my year at school were applying for university i followed suit and i'm off to uni in september for 4 years to study aeronautical engineering.
Get to uni, you'll be passing time to see where this particular industry is heading, completing a degree, become more mature, enjoy 'the best years of your life', earn more 'worldly knowledge'....
I see uni not just about the degree but all the other advantages that come with it, maturity being one of them.
Get to uni, you'll be passing time to see where this particular industry is heading, completing a degree, become more mature, enjoy 'the best years of your life', earn more 'worldly knowledge'....
I see uni not just about the degree but all the other advantages that come with it, maturity being one of them.
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If this Guy isnt" Afraz in" a cunning disguise , then he is a troll if he isnt a troll he is a complete pilloch , not even a 16 year old would be this naive surely 
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Someone who sticks out in that big list. Ryanair! Amazing airline! Whats all this talk about not getting a job at the end??
Plus if the rumours are true the more experienced you get the less you fly
and if you have a loan then well you're stuffed! 
Hovering AND talking
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Locarno, Why do you want to do an integrated course and waste your parents' money? You're doing your PPL now and you could get that before you finsih your A-levels.
Go to uni and complete your hour and experience building whilst getting a good degree. Finish uni, take a year full-time to get the ATPL theory and CPL/IR skill tests.
It's kinder on the pocket, you'll have a degree and a "frozen" ATPL by the time you're 22.
If you're serious, why don't you show this thread to your parents and see what they think?
Cheers
Whirls
Go to uni and complete your hour and experience building whilst getting a good degree. Finish uni, take a year full-time to get the ATPL theory and CPL/IR skill tests.
It's kinder on the pocket, you'll have a degree and a "frozen" ATPL by the time you're 22.
If you're serious, why don't you show this thread to your parents and see what they think?
Cheers
Whirls
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Pay £90k+ on an integrated course to get a £24k job with Flybe... what a cracking deal... where do I sign up? NOT!
Oh... They do Ryanair... Fantastic... £90k+ and then another £30k for the TR along with pretty much no wages for 2 years, high risk of losing my job or being shipped about Europe... Once again, sounds like a cracking deal...
You would be better off spending £45k on modular and buying £45k worth of lottery tickets!
I love 16, 18 years olds... They think it's so easy to spend £80k all on the one go, lets see them going out and actually making that money.
Oh... They do Ryanair... Fantastic... £90k+ and then another £30k for the TR along with pretty much no wages for 2 years, high risk of losing my job or being shipped about Europe... Once again, sounds like a cracking deal...
You would be better off spending £45k on modular and buying £45k worth of lottery tickets!
I love 16, 18 years olds... They think it's so easy to spend £80k all on the one go, lets see them going out and actually making that money.