Stapleford Flight centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'DIY' NPAs at Stapleford aren't exactly DIY. They have approach plates for a VOR/DME procedure but it is a 'training only' approach but I wouldn't mind betting that LEA use it when they have to.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to get this straight...
Why the heck would you think they would make you a DIY non-precision approach at Stapleford?
The 'DIY' NPAs at Stapleford aren't exactly DIY. They have approach plates for a VOR/DME procedure but it is a 'training only' approach
). By DIY I meant "for training only". I have never seen the training VOR approach plates at Stapleford, I just assumed something like that existed (traffic and airspace permitting). It's definitely something I would design as an instructor if my local airport had a nearby VOR, no VOR approach and the airspace would allow it.
I was trained at an airport that had real VOR, ILS and 2 NDB approaches, so admittedly I was a little spoilt. But my instructor took me to other VOR's and NDB's where we trained holds and simulated approaches at altitude + x000'.
And I assume the BBC Essex Radio "NDB" is still in vogue with the local training community ?
Southend is 10-15 minutes away! (Controlled and Non precision)
I think the ideal situation is a controlled airfield that is not busy and where the FTO / RF gets a discount for approaches. Failing that, it is a consideration of all pro's and con's and the practical workarounds discussed in this and previous posts...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: around
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PP -- while it's true Southend (now with ILS back serviceable, I believe) is ten minutes away, you usually end up doing something on the way back, so it's not time wasted per se. And once you're in the aircraft you're almost always doing some airways/route flying on the way out, so you're not wasting time there... I think, to be honest, the time you spend transiting back is offset by not waiting at the hold/circling in the overhead while you wait for other movements to get out of the way. Horses for courses, as you say.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure how minutes wasted flying to Southend, you need to position yourself for both hold and procedure, not much time doing that from Stapleford to Southend, so not exactly wasted time.
If you depart from fully instrumented airfield, you will still need to fly that amount of time to get yourself into some position to fly back, enter a hold and do an approach!
Another positive thing, no landing fees at Stapleford, and no ATC delays. You pay for time you fly +5 minutes before TKOF and after LDG!
I have heard stories where people flying from places like Biggin Hill, spending 40 minutes on the tarmac, and paying for the joy of waiting and holding!
So depends what you want, if you want a no nonsense approach, than Stapleford is a good alternative. Quite surprised with such way of thinking.
Also if you can land downhill on 04 at night with approach, than you can land anywhere! There is a challenge and a learning objective where you look, does not need to be a 747 runway like Manston!
If you depart from fully instrumented airfield, you will still need to fly that amount of time to get yourself into some position to fly back, enter a hold and do an approach!
Another positive thing, no landing fees at Stapleford, and no ATC delays. You pay for time you fly +5 minutes before TKOF and after LDG!
I have heard stories where people flying from places like Biggin Hill, spending 40 minutes on the tarmac, and paying for the joy of waiting and holding!
So depends what you want, if you want a no nonsense approach, than Stapleford is a good alternative. Quite surprised with such way of thinking.
Also if you can land downhill on 04 at night with approach, than you can land anywhere! There is a challenge and a learning objective where you look, does not need to be a 747 runway like Manston!
Sometimes you can look into things too much. It doesn't make a difference that you start/end your test at an uncontrolled airfield. Personally I think it might actually work in your favour.
The school is generally good. The instructors I had taught me well. At the end of the day:
1) I passed the course on minimum hours (and minimum cost).
2) I got a series one attempt one (first time) pass.
It's a busy school, the sims are pretty much in use all day and the aircraft are always flying whenever they are serviceable/the weather is suitable.
Take SEN out the equation. The whole Olympics thing and easyJet operating out of there come April will probably make the airfield somewhere that SFC wont like to operate around.
The school is generally good. The instructors I had taught me well. At the end of the day:
1) I passed the course on minimum hours (and minimum cost).
2) I got a series one attempt one (first time) pass.
It's a busy school, the sims are pretty much in use all day and the aircraft are always flying whenever they are serviceable/the weather is suitable.
Take SEN out the equation. The whole Olympics thing and easyJet operating out of there come April will probably make the airfield somewhere that SFC wont like to operate around.
Also the Head of Training (Dobney) is nothing better! He loves doing the 170A checkouts because he gets the £100 cash in hand and wont let any other FI do the 170A!! but his alright to fly with!!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: around
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The more pressing reasons why Colin usually does 170As are twofold: firstly, if you've flown with one of the others before the 170A he can't then sign you off -- I only thought there was one other 170A signatory, and he was one of my primary instructors. Secondly, for all of his bull, I got the impression that Colin does care about standards, and I reckon if you can pass with him then a CAA examiner will be a cakewalk.
You are right, of course, that most of the 170As are flown by Colin, but I don't think it's that big a deal.
You are right, of course, that most of the 170As are flown by Colin, but I don't think it's that big a deal.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think at the end of the day it comes down to where you feel most comfortable at. A lot of people I know who built hours in the US went on and on about it being controlled and how they'll be prepared for airline world. Load of crap, we all hold an RT license. I actually think it's harder flying into somewhere uncontrolled because you have to be very vigilant with a good situational awareness and you aren't being told what to do.
Who knows, who cares.
Never heard of an interview question of whether you trained at a controlled field or not, doesn't come up in ATPL exams or the medical - believe it or not!!!! Am still yet to here from a recruiter "yes well those pilots who trained at a controlled airfield make such better pilots, fantastic to hire".
As for the receptionists, I think they're a lovely bunch!
Who knows, who cares.
Never heard of an interview question of whether you trained at a controlled field or not, doesn't come up in ATPL exams or the medical - believe it or not!!!! Am still yet to here from a recruiter "yes well those pilots who trained at a controlled airfield make such better pilots, fantastic to hire".
As for the receptionists, I think they're a lovely bunch!
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"B737Dude" About the 91 Pence, is pure BS, a lie!
My account did sometimes go just over limit, due to various circumstances, and was NEVER a problem.
They hold your deposit, until they sure they have covered all approach/landing fees!
I agree, you should stop speaking nonsense, and stick to facts!
I believe for the IR, it is only Colin who can do the 170A! For CPL there might be another 2, however it is complete nonsense what you write, as you trying to create some BS here, about the reception ladies! Seriously I doubt you have been there, or you who don't have people skills!
Even now long time after I finished, if I come by, they always say hi, and ask how things are going, maybe you gave them a bad impression by your own character!
My account did sometimes go just over limit, due to various circumstances, and was NEVER a problem.
They hold your deposit, until they sure they have covered all approach/landing fees!
I agree, you should stop speaking nonsense, and stick to facts!
I believe for the IR, it is only Colin who can do the 170A! For CPL there might be another 2, however it is complete nonsense what you write, as you trying to create some BS here, about the reception ladies! Seriously I doubt you have been there, or you who don't have people skills!
Even now long time after I finished, if I come by, they always say hi, and ask how things are going, maybe you gave them a bad impression by your own character!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you depart from fully instrumented airfield, you will still need to fly that amount of time to get yourself into some position to fly back, enter a hold and do an approach!
Believe me, that doesn't take as much time as flying from Stapleford to Southend. Whether you like it or not, EGMC is 20NM from EGSG, or about 12.5 minutes @ 110 KTS direct. A missed approach leg at most airports is not even half that length. And you have to fly back to EGSG when done.
As I said before, this can be accommodated with clever planning from the instructor, but you cannot make the distance go away by sheer willpower or marketing.
The more a think about it, the more I would suggest that the OP make a pro/con list, especially when comparing EGSG with EGMC (and EGMH). Landing fees and ground travel time to get there and comparing those with the proposed training schedule would be two things at the top of my list. That requires talking to instructors at the various FTO's/RF's.
A lot of people I know who built hours in the US went on and on about it being controlled and how they'll be prepared for airline world.
you have to be very vigilant with a good situational awareness
A priori, you could say there is a safety argument for doing your training in controlled airspace, as the RHS then generally doesn't constantly have to divide attention between looking outside and instructing you. But I dare say most instructors can cope with that.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take off and go direct on a MAP procedure! This way before TKOF you will know what your hold entry is!
In real world you will not always know before you TKOF what your hold entry will be, and that is a part of the training, to be able to solve this in flight, while working on the radio, situational awareness etc.
Some flights will be doing approaches only, others will be doing routes combined with approaches, on the route you will have to fly from A to B anyway.
Try doing a route to Cambridge, and get stuck for 30 minutes in the hold, waiting for your approach, this is not something anyone can pre-plan!
Generally Southend traffic is not that bad, but just shooting of after TKOF into MAP I would say does not give you a realistic flight sequence for preparing an approach, ATIS, checks etc.
The whole point is to get realistic experience in real flight environment.
When flying direct Southend from Stapleford, they will re-position you, so that you need to work out your hold entry in flight, maybe not a major thing, but it is all part of good training.
On the way back to Stapleford, you do airwork, single engine visual approach, which is also part of your training!
In real world you will not always know before you TKOF what your hold entry will be, and that is a part of the training, to be able to solve this in flight, while working on the radio, situational awareness etc.
Some flights will be doing approaches only, others will be doing routes combined with approaches, on the route you will have to fly from A to B anyway.
Try doing a route to Cambridge, and get stuck for 30 minutes in the hold, waiting for your approach, this is not something anyone can pre-plan!
Generally Southend traffic is not that bad, but just shooting of after TKOF into MAP I would say does not give you a realistic flight sequence for preparing an approach, ATIS, checks etc.
The whole point is to get realistic experience in real flight environment.
When flying direct Southend from Stapleford, they will re-position you, so that you need to work out your hold entry in flight, maybe not a major thing, but it is all part of good training.
On the way back to Stapleford, you do airwork, single engine visual approach, which is also part of your training!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You spend most of your time under a hood or with foggles, leaving the (non-navigational) situational awareness and the vigilance for other traffic to your trusted friend in the RHS with tig hours.
A priori, you could say there is a safety argument for doing your training in controlled airspace, as the RHS then generally doesn't constantly have to divide attention between looking outside and instructing you. But I dare say most instructors can cope with that.
A priori, you could say there is a safety argument for doing your training in controlled airspace, as the RHS then generally doesn't constantly have to divide attention between looking outside and instructing you. But I dare say most instructors can cope with that.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is sad, is that people blatantly lie!
Some are oversenstive for the reception ladies there.
Maybe some of you complaining have either never been there, or you have been doing some wrong yourself, however only half facts/statements are presented here.
What I liked with Stapleford, is that they are a honest bunch of people, they don't try to rip you off, they don't need to, they have to many students, so it gets busy!
Maybe they are not there to give you a red carpet treatment, but it is not Oxford prices either
Some are oversenstive for the reception ladies there.
Maybe some of you complaining have either never been there, or you have been doing some wrong yourself, however only half facts/statements are presented here.
What I liked with Stapleford, is that they are a honest bunch of people, they don't try to rip you off, they don't need to, they have to many students, so it gets busy!
Maybe they are not there to give you a red carpet treatment, but it is not Oxford prices either
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had wanted to leave the conversation where it was on the 24th, but now you seem to infer that I'm somehow not telling the truth, misrepresenting facts or that my grief then was of my own doing. Well...
First the technical matters :
So what ? We're not comparing the possibilities of practicing hold entries, just the time it takes before you get to an instrument approach fitted towered field. When you start from a towered field, it will be quicker because you are already there.
Hold entries you can practice over any VOR, NDB, Radio Station etc... outside of controlled airspace. You don't need to have the instructor "position yourself" so as to arrive over the NDB from such and such radial in EGMC.
We're talking about Cambridge in the UK ? 30 minutes hold ??? Last time I flew there I got my landing clearance at beacon outbound...
I disagree. A good instructor can just as well simulate that real flight environment in uncontrolled airspace while simulating atc calls.
When you state
and
I can indeed confirm that I did not get a red carpet treatment from the reception / booking office. I can also confirm that they did not rip me off for any money. They only made me rush from work and waste time and money on two cab rides to and from the airfield. If they had too many students / were too busy, I would have gladly rescheduled or accepted that my training request couldn't be accommodated for this term / season.
I'm sure that, if they had been able to manage their booking agenda properly, I wouldn't be writing about it now.
And I hope you can see I wasn't writing for or against Stapleford Abbots / SFC. My point, in answering the OP's question, was that you should consider many factors, such as travel time on the ground, landing fees as a student, travel time in the air to the various navigation beacons and instrument approaches, safety while under the hood, etc
First the technical matters :
Take off and go direct on a MAP procedure! This way before TKOF you will know what your hold entry is!
Hold entries you can practice over any VOR, NDB, Radio Station etc... outside of controlled airspace. You don't need to have the instructor "position yourself" so as to arrive over the NDB from such and such radial in EGMC.
Try doing a route to Cambridge, and get stuck for 30 minutes in the hold, waiting for your approach, this is not something anyone can pre-plan!
The whole point is to get realistic experience in real flight environment.
When you state
Some are oversenstive for the reception ladies there.
Maybe they are not there to give you a red carpet treatment
I'm sure that, if they had been able to manage their booking agenda properly, I wouldn't be writing about it now.
And I hope you can see I wasn't writing for or against Stapleford Abbots / SFC. My point, in answering the OP's question, was that you should consider many factors, such as travel time on the ground, landing fees as a student, travel time in the air to the various navigation beacons and instrument approaches, safety while under the hood, etc
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No further comment about your last message, however yes I know of pilots who have been stuck in hold at Cambridge, or been radar vectored around the area for 20 - 30 minutes, even at "little" Cambridge!
And during the 3 months I was doing my IR I know it happen to another 4 guys, and it cost money to keep waiting for your approach at a busy airfield.
And during the 3 months I was doing my IR I know it happen to another 4 guys, and it cost money to keep waiting for your approach at a busy airfield.
At the end of the day, whether you're spending £1.99 on a cheeseburger or £25K on a CPL ME IR package, you expect respectable level of customer service. There were times at SFC when the service from those behind the reception desk was rubbish, sometimes they were pleasant. It totally depends who you came in contact with.
As for the financial side, I had a few issues which were only resolved through me keeping an extremely close eye on my account. Yep, sometimes honest mistakes were made, others were (IMO) unacceptable and money which shouldn't have been taken out of my account was refunded, all be it reluctantly.
It is important to understand that not everyone will get through the course on minimum hours. Some people learn quicker, others take a bit more time. Yes, if you flew from STAP to CAM on every training sortie you'll end up spending more of your time in the cruise then shooting approaches but the fact is that doesn't happen. Students regularly alternate between SEN, MSE, CAM and occasionally LYD.
If you want to see what SFC is really like for students go down there and look for yourself. Don't make an appointment, just turn up, sit in the clubhouse and try and listen in to a debrief or two, maybe ask a few questions to students who are away from reception.
As for the financial side, I had a few issues which were only resolved through me keeping an extremely close eye on my account. Yep, sometimes honest mistakes were made, others were (IMO) unacceptable and money which shouldn't have been taken out of my account was refunded, all be it reluctantly.
It is important to understand that not everyone will get through the course on minimum hours. Some people learn quicker, others take a bit more time. Yes, if you flew from STAP to CAM on every training sortie you'll end up spending more of your time in the cruise then shooting approaches but the fact is that doesn't happen. Students regularly alternate between SEN, MSE, CAM and occasionally LYD.
If you want to see what SFC is really like for students go down there and look for yourself. Don't make an appointment, just turn up, sit in the clubhouse and try and listen in to a debrief or two, maybe ask a few questions to students who are away from reception.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Athens
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
employmenat after SFC
Guys this all sounds lovely but who that has trained at SFC has gained employment and where? just asking as im almost at my decision to train there but just wanted to see who had been employed and flying what?
thanks
thanks
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wickford
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought I would add my opinion here as someone that has only just finished their PPL at Stapleford. I have no intentions, and never had, of going any further than PPL level as this was just going to be a hobby. Having said that, I may add my night rating and IMC just for the extra experience.
My experience was generaly very good overall but had I have been asked when I first started it would have been an extremely bad review.
My wife got me into it by buying me a trial lesson for our anniversary. I had always wanted to do my PPL but never got around to it. I turned up on my trial lesson and it was a glorious day. I got there about an hour early but the instructor was already ready so we went up about half an hour early. It was a great trial lesson and I actually got a little bit longer than my half an hour.
I was hooked straight away and immediately after landing went back to reception with the instructor to inquire about doing the full PPL. After going through the costs etc I decided that I would pay for the full 45 hours up-front to which I did and booked my first lesson for the following week.
Unfortunately, the instructor who did my trial lesson was not available so they assigned me a different instructor and gave me his details there and then. The instructor who did my trial lesson then showed me around the place and took me into the shop and showed me what I would need to purchase. He was really helpful and told me what I would need immediately and what I could put off buying to a later date. I ended up buying a logbook, books 1 and 2 of the pilots manuals series, a fuel tester and fuel guage (as I was doing it in a C152) and a checklist.
The following weekend came which was atrocious weather so I rang up an hour before my lesson to which I was told that the lesson would have to be cancelled due to weather. Obviously not their fault. So then I tried to book another lesson. This is where my problem started as there were not any available slots for about 3 weeks. I expressed my concern that I had paid in advance and I really wanted to crack on and hopefully get it all completed this year. I had to ring back several times to check for cancellations but I really wasn't happy as I felt like they had just over subscribed students and if I was going to have to wait this long between lessons then it was not going to be very productive.
When I rung back for a third time it was a different lady on the phone who was extremely helpful. She shifted some things around and got me a slot with the same instructor I was originaly booked with for the following Saturday (2 days time). I turned up and everything went as planned and it was a great first lesson. My wife came along with me and we had a great meal in their very friendly club house.
Anyway, I had the same problems again when I tried to book my next lesson. Again, there were no slots available. They said that they could get me a slot but it would be with a different instructor which would now mean I would be flying alternatively with 2 instructors (one on Saturdays and the other on Sundays). They booked me in for about 4 weekends on the trot. The new instructor I just could not get along with. I found him very direct and also very sarcastic in his comments and to sum him up 'a know it all'. I take very well to constructive crticism but I do not take well to out and out degrading. He really did not make me want to fly and I always made a lot of mistakes with him as I just felt nervous touching or doing anything through fear of making a mistake. Incidently, I am not going to name either of these instructors.
I used to look forward when I was flying on a Saturday as the instructor made me feel at ease and was always constructive with his comments and corrected any mistakes I made in a good way. He was under the opinion that you did not learn anything if you didn't make mistakes. On Sundays I flew with the other instructor and it really did make me consider giving it up. If I did one thing wrong then all I would hear was a sarcastic comment over the headphones that always made me feel like I was not cut out for this and maybe I should just give it up now. Also, the 2 instructors had 2 completely different styles and opinions. The first instructor would show me how to do something and then the 2nd one would tell me a completely different way and say the first method was wrong. I had to adjust my flying style depending on whether I was flying with instructor 1 or instructor 2.
Then one day I just lost in on the Sunday while doing circuits with the 2nd instructor and just told him that he had control and could he land the plane so I could get out. I told him that I really did not like the way he speaks to me and if I am so bad that he is constantly criticising me then why doesn't he just tell me that I am not cut out for it and stop taking my money every week.
He landed the plane and I stormed off home with my wife and sat down to decide whether I should actually ask for my money back and just give up as I was obviously not cut out to be a pilot.
A day later I got a call on my mobile from instructor number 2 who asked me if I would come down to the airfield. I agreed and once there he took me into a corner of the clubhouse and apologised to me. He told me that the reason he was being tough on me was that I was actually doing very well and he was just piling on more and more things to try and get me through this in the best possible times. He explained that this was just his way and that he was never intending to be degrading. He said that because I was picking up things very quickly he wanted to push me harder.
To cut a long story short, after that incident I got booked in for a double slot on the Saturday and a single slot on the Sunday and this went on for the rest of the course (3 hours per week). The 2nd instructor turned into a very good friend (as did the first) and I still speak and joke with him now. But it did take me a while to get used to his methods.
All-in-all, I ended up being very impressed with the teaching and actually completed my PPL in only 3 hours over minimum times and 2 and a bit hours of that was my skills test. I didn't go solo until 21 hours but that was mainly due to the argument I had and the fact that lessons were regularly cancelled due to weather.
Regarding the staff in reception, from what I can gather there are only really 2 ladies that deal with the training side of things that are never there together. The rest of the people sitting in reception are the back office staff that do all the paperwork around it and I don't think they are really there to deal with the public. The only reason you see them is because it is an open planned office. Usually if the lady was busy I had to wait but occassionly they would offer. There were numerous times I heard the instructors discussing other student's problems which I just turned a death ear to and I do feel that some things could have been discussed a little more discreetly.
From my own point of view, on the whole I did enjoy my training down Stapleford and would go back and do some more training. I found it an ideal place to learn as I got experience of both solid and grass runways, at times a very busy circuit that you were basically responsible for your own safety as there is only an A/G station there so it made you very good at looking out for traffic. Also, most times we would immediately change frequency to Southend so I also got the experience of talking to a full ATC as well. There were almost no waiting times for taking off wo when you paid for a hour, almost all of that was in the air rather than holding. Also, the landing fees are free for students so when doing circuit training you do not have to worry about how much all the touch-and-goes are costing and it means you can have as many goes as time permits.
The only additional cost is the fuel surcharge they add on which can come to quite a bit (mine was nearly £300 for the entire time). When you pay for 45 hours in advance, you only really get 43 hours as the rest is taken in fuel surcharges. I would have preferred to have paid for everything so I know that it was paid for but the costs were on par with what everyone else was charging (substantially cheaper than some) so I guess it all evens out.
Lastly, for the PPL you can get everything doen at the airfield including your medical as they have an AME on-site twice a week and all your exams and tests can be taken and marked there as they have full time examiners. The exams are a reasonable £20 per exam with the RT oral exam being £50.
My experience was generaly very good overall but had I have been asked when I first started it would have been an extremely bad review.
My wife got me into it by buying me a trial lesson for our anniversary. I had always wanted to do my PPL but never got around to it. I turned up on my trial lesson and it was a glorious day. I got there about an hour early but the instructor was already ready so we went up about half an hour early. It was a great trial lesson and I actually got a little bit longer than my half an hour.
I was hooked straight away and immediately after landing went back to reception with the instructor to inquire about doing the full PPL. After going through the costs etc I decided that I would pay for the full 45 hours up-front to which I did and booked my first lesson for the following week.
Unfortunately, the instructor who did my trial lesson was not available so they assigned me a different instructor and gave me his details there and then. The instructor who did my trial lesson then showed me around the place and took me into the shop and showed me what I would need to purchase. He was really helpful and told me what I would need immediately and what I could put off buying to a later date. I ended up buying a logbook, books 1 and 2 of the pilots manuals series, a fuel tester and fuel guage (as I was doing it in a C152) and a checklist.
The following weekend came which was atrocious weather so I rang up an hour before my lesson to which I was told that the lesson would have to be cancelled due to weather. Obviously not their fault. So then I tried to book another lesson. This is where my problem started as there were not any available slots for about 3 weeks. I expressed my concern that I had paid in advance and I really wanted to crack on and hopefully get it all completed this year. I had to ring back several times to check for cancellations but I really wasn't happy as I felt like they had just over subscribed students and if I was going to have to wait this long between lessons then it was not going to be very productive.
When I rung back for a third time it was a different lady on the phone who was extremely helpful. She shifted some things around and got me a slot with the same instructor I was originaly booked with for the following Saturday (2 days time). I turned up and everything went as planned and it was a great first lesson. My wife came along with me and we had a great meal in their very friendly club house.
Anyway, I had the same problems again when I tried to book my next lesson. Again, there were no slots available. They said that they could get me a slot but it would be with a different instructor which would now mean I would be flying alternatively with 2 instructors (one on Saturdays and the other on Sundays). They booked me in for about 4 weekends on the trot. The new instructor I just could not get along with. I found him very direct and also very sarcastic in his comments and to sum him up 'a know it all'. I take very well to constructive crticism but I do not take well to out and out degrading. He really did not make me want to fly and I always made a lot of mistakes with him as I just felt nervous touching or doing anything through fear of making a mistake. Incidently, I am not going to name either of these instructors.
I used to look forward when I was flying on a Saturday as the instructor made me feel at ease and was always constructive with his comments and corrected any mistakes I made in a good way. He was under the opinion that you did not learn anything if you didn't make mistakes. On Sundays I flew with the other instructor and it really did make me consider giving it up. If I did one thing wrong then all I would hear was a sarcastic comment over the headphones that always made me feel like I was not cut out for this and maybe I should just give it up now. Also, the 2 instructors had 2 completely different styles and opinions. The first instructor would show me how to do something and then the 2nd one would tell me a completely different way and say the first method was wrong. I had to adjust my flying style depending on whether I was flying with instructor 1 or instructor 2.
Then one day I just lost in on the Sunday while doing circuits with the 2nd instructor and just told him that he had control and could he land the plane so I could get out. I told him that I really did not like the way he speaks to me and if I am so bad that he is constantly criticising me then why doesn't he just tell me that I am not cut out for it and stop taking my money every week.
He landed the plane and I stormed off home with my wife and sat down to decide whether I should actually ask for my money back and just give up as I was obviously not cut out to be a pilot.
A day later I got a call on my mobile from instructor number 2 who asked me if I would come down to the airfield. I agreed and once there he took me into a corner of the clubhouse and apologised to me. He told me that the reason he was being tough on me was that I was actually doing very well and he was just piling on more and more things to try and get me through this in the best possible times. He explained that this was just his way and that he was never intending to be degrading. He said that because I was picking up things very quickly he wanted to push me harder.
To cut a long story short, after that incident I got booked in for a double slot on the Saturday and a single slot on the Sunday and this went on for the rest of the course (3 hours per week). The 2nd instructor turned into a very good friend (as did the first) and I still speak and joke with him now. But it did take me a while to get used to his methods.
All-in-all, I ended up being very impressed with the teaching and actually completed my PPL in only 3 hours over minimum times and 2 and a bit hours of that was my skills test. I didn't go solo until 21 hours but that was mainly due to the argument I had and the fact that lessons were regularly cancelled due to weather.
Regarding the staff in reception, from what I can gather there are only really 2 ladies that deal with the training side of things that are never there together. The rest of the people sitting in reception are the back office staff that do all the paperwork around it and I don't think they are really there to deal with the public. The only reason you see them is because it is an open planned office. Usually if the lady was busy I had to wait but occassionly they would offer. There were numerous times I heard the instructors discussing other student's problems which I just turned a death ear to and I do feel that some things could have been discussed a little more discreetly.
From my own point of view, on the whole I did enjoy my training down Stapleford and would go back and do some more training. I found it an ideal place to learn as I got experience of both solid and grass runways, at times a very busy circuit that you were basically responsible for your own safety as there is only an A/G station there so it made you very good at looking out for traffic. Also, most times we would immediately change frequency to Southend so I also got the experience of talking to a full ATC as well. There were almost no waiting times for taking off wo when you paid for a hour, almost all of that was in the air rather than holding. Also, the landing fees are free for students so when doing circuit training you do not have to worry about how much all the touch-and-goes are costing and it means you can have as many goes as time permits.
The only additional cost is the fuel surcharge they add on which can come to quite a bit (mine was nearly £300 for the entire time). When you pay for 45 hours in advance, you only really get 43 hours as the rest is taken in fuel surcharges. I would have preferred to have paid for everything so I know that it was paid for but the costs were on par with what everyone else was charging (substantially cheaper than some) so I guess it all evens out.
Lastly, for the PPL you can get everything doen at the airfield including your medical as they have an AME on-site twice a week and all your exams and tests can be taken and marked there as they have full time examiners. The exams are a reasonable £20 per exam with the RT oral exam being £50.
