Guys, Don't Do it.
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Probabely... Did some research when I was a kid, and found interesting books about the beginning of aviation. It was all exploration, human adventure, discovering and connecting continents. It was period of great hope for the future. But since human being never came to the moon, and exploration concerns more scientists than pilots. It was outdated I realize.
My bad.
My bad.
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KAG have you any experience on commercial jets? In order to describe it as boring and that average flying skills will take you there I assume you have?
I have flown survey aircraft, small turboprops, big turboprops, done aerobatics, still fly piston singles and twins fortnightly and go to work left seat on a medium jet. Each of these types of flying have their enjoyment and boredom factors.
I am tired of this blanket opinion that commercial jet flying is boring. There's plenty going on to occupy one's mind. It has its challenges and frustrations, just as much as my little aeroplane has. The self-titled "real pilots" who dismiss bigger aeroplanes rarely have had any experience on such types to have an informed opinion anyway!
I have flown survey aircraft, small turboprops, big turboprops, done aerobatics, still fly piston singles and twins fortnightly and go to work left seat on a medium jet. Each of these types of flying have their enjoyment and boredom factors.
I am tired of this blanket opinion that commercial jet flying is boring. There's plenty going on to occupy one's mind. It has its challenges and frustrations, just as much as my little aeroplane has. The self-titled "real pilots" who dismiss bigger aeroplanes rarely have had any experience on such types to have an informed opinion anyway!
Last edited by Kiltie; 12th Jul 2009 at 09:07.
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Of course I have no experience on commercial jets.
I was saying that just for the fun of it
Kind of pretending. I mean if I were flying a real jet I would be like a real man right? And my post would have more weight, more importance!
I was saying that just for the fun of it
Kind of pretending. I mean if I were flying a real jet I would be like a real man right? And my post would have more weight, more importance!
Last edited by KAG; 14th Sep 2009 at 16:56.
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I'm still very new out of training with only 50 hours on type but already I find legs over 2 hours a little dull. Fortunately our average is 60-90 minutes with a reasonable number shorter than that which certainly keeps the interest level up.
Not sure if I would enjoy watching the magenta line for hours every day anywhere near as much as what I get to do.
Not sure if I would enjoy watching the magenta line for hours every day anywhere near as much as what I get to do.
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KAG i'm not sure if you are telling the truth
mmm
First the rant about don't do it then support for what you do? mmm another disgruntled wannabe i think..
Hollingworth would love to do what you do.. biz jets
mmm First the rant about don't do it then support for what you do? mmm another disgruntled wannabe i think..
Hollingworth would love to do what you do.. biz jets
I mean if I were flying a real jet I would be like a real man right?
There is a common misconception among the "real pilot" stick-and-rudder-hero community that commercial jet pilots do nothing except watch the autopilot for 3 hours at a time. There's quite a bit more to it than that. Maybe you'll see that one day.
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Ahh, the ubiquotus 'ego battle of the sky'. Mines bigger than yours, and if not, I didn't want to play anyway!
The truth is anyone can now 'experience' flying 737 / 320 through paying for the seat. Actually it's become little more than a 'fairground ride attraction' - until your credit runs out and the next punter arrives.
I hope that the 'credit crunch' ultimately puts a stop to these schemes. This done we can all move ahead as an industry. The airline accountants will not welcome this day!
Only with this done will the smiles return to everyones face and people be happy and fulfilled with the profession.
For my part the job is worth doing. I have never been bored or even questioned my continuing involvement. I believe the present employment climate is to blame for 99% of the threads negativity.
The truth is anyone can now 'experience' flying 737 / 320 through paying for the seat. Actually it's become little more than a 'fairground ride attraction' - until your credit runs out and the next punter arrives.
I hope that the 'credit crunch' ultimately puts a stop to these schemes. This done we can all move ahead as an industry. The airline accountants will not welcome this day!
Only with this done will the smiles return to everyones face and people be happy and fulfilled with the profession.
For my part the job is worth doing. I have never been bored or even questioned my continuing involvement. I believe the present employment climate is to blame for 99% of the threads negativity.
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My opinion is that this thread is slightly irrelevant but I understand that sometimes, a person like the OP needs to vent some frustration on a public forum rather than shout this in front of the Chief Pilot!
I honestly believe though that the pilots that make it to the airline know what they are getting themselves in for. You would have to be a hermit to not know the industry, whether it be from Pprune or from reading the newspapers. You would simply be found out at an interview if you did not know about the industry - technically speaking or T&C wise.
Therefore, the "new generation" pilots, i.e those that will be starting on the line circa 2010+ will know what they are getting themselves in to. I still wanted this job, even on the back of my dad being made redundant 3 times in his flying career and a life that ultimately caused the break up of his marriage. I understood this back in 99.
Family circumstances are an important factor in deciding whether you are happy in your job or not. At present, I'm happy with my pattern and the salary. I take a 744 for a fly about to pretty cool destinations. I am single with no kids. But if I had two kids, I know I would have to send them to an international school, and at my level in the airline, there would be very little financial help and I would see half of my salary go to my kids' school plus the rent on a house for such a family.
In that case, a $6000 pcm salary suddenly does not sound too impressive. Especially if my wife was not working.
This is a risk I took knowing I was ex-pat in this part of the world. I have a very long list of contacts who could get me a job back in blighty in a second if it were still 2006/7. Right now? Nothing. Nada. M'OL won't even take me!
I honestly believe though that the pilots that make it to the airline know what they are getting themselves in for. You would have to be a hermit to not know the industry, whether it be from Pprune or from reading the newspapers. You would simply be found out at an interview if you did not know about the industry - technically speaking or T&C wise.
Therefore, the "new generation" pilots, i.e those that will be starting on the line circa 2010+ will know what they are getting themselves in to. I still wanted this job, even on the back of my dad being made redundant 3 times in his flying career and a life that ultimately caused the break up of his marriage. I understood this back in 99.
Family circumstances are an important factor in deciding whether you are happy in your job or not. At present, I'm happy with my pattern and the salary. I take a 744 for a fly about to pretty cool destinations. I am single with no kids. But if I had two kids, I know I would have to send them to an international school, and at my level in the airline, there would be very little financial help and I would see half of my salary go to my kids' school plus the rent on a house for such a family.
In that case, a $6000 pcm salary suddenly does not sound too impressive. Especially if my wife was not working.
This is a risk I took knowing I was ex-pat in this part of the world. I have a very long list of contacts who could get me a job back in blighty in a second if it were still 2006/7. Right now? Nothing. Nada. M'OL won't even take me!
There are very few jobs in the world that pay well and are fun. If it is your job to keep an airliner full of human lives safe, don't expect to be doing aeros downroute.
Conversely, most jobs that vary on a day-to-day basis are not very well paid. That's certainly true of flying, where a pilot who does a bit of para-dropping, some ferry flying, the odd turbo-prop charter flight, and tests microlights from a pretty grass strip, is not going to be earning much.
Try being a lawyer. A more dull, repetitive, red-tape spoiled job can't be found this side of a government owned stationery factory.
That said, some people love it. But don't expect to earn enough to buy your own little aeroplane, because you won't, unless you spend all your money on flying, want an early divorce and kids who refer to you as 'Mummy's friend'.
When I changed career from law to aviation, every friend of mine was jealous. And I can assure you all, I wouldn't do any of their jobs for love nor money.
Conversely, most jobs that vary on a day-to-day basis are not very well paid. That's certainly true of flying, where a pilot who does a bit of para-dropping, some ferry flying, the odd turbo-prop charter flight, and tests microlights from a pretty grass strip, is not going to be earning much.
Try being a lawyer. A more dull, repetitive, red-tape spoiled job can't be found this side of a government owned stationery factory.
That said, some people love it. But don't expect to earn enough to buy your own little aeroplane, because you won't, unless you spend all your money on flying, want an early divorce and kids who refer to you as 'Mummy's friend'.When I changed career from law to aviation, every friend of mine was jealous. And I can assure you all, I wouldn't do any of their jobs for love nor money.
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Im sorry Jabbe, but your post is very silly indeed.
You are shown as being 25 years old and intimate you went to university .This means that effecitively you have propbably been flying airliners for a max of three years give or take .
I am not meaning to be derogatory in any way but I would summise that you professional life has been very limited .
I am 40 yrs old and working as an instructor , a job I love . I have been in the armed forces served for many years as a copper , worked in bars shops and abroad.
I can say with a a high degree of certainty that if you were to come out of your airliner and do anyone of these jobs for a short period of time , you would quickly learn what a nice life you have and that maybe your job isnt too bad after all , ask your cabin crew where they would prefer to be , or maybe you should do a few shifts as cabin crew dealing with members of the public and see for yourself the colour of the grass .
You are one of a few pilots I have either heard of or know personally who are young and say they think airliner flying isnt what it should be . All are from integrated courses and had financial assistance through their training from parents . They jumped blindly into the job with no experience of life itself , Uni doesnt count . One of my friends has done the honourable thing and used his degree for other purposes , as you youself may wish to do . He freely admits his mistake .
What you should not be doing is putting people off doing what they have dreamed of just because you made an ill informed career decision .
If I sat in an airliner bored stupid for 6 hours day in and day out , I can draw on the fact that Im not getting threatened , abused ,assaulted ,spat on etc on a day to day basis , I am not sitting in a tent in the chuffing sandpit sweating my cods off away from home 9 months of the year , I dont have peopel bleating at me left right and centre because the price tag was wrong on a 5 quid shirt , I will then think hey maybe this aint so bad .
Like I said I am an instructor and love it for all those out there wishing to be CPL's go for it its great fun , I get paid naff all but it beats the crap out of picking up drunk axxholes and dealing with people who lack the basic social skills to exist within a civilised community
You are shown as being 25 years old and intimate you went to university .This means that effecitively you have propbably been flying airliners for a max of three years give or take .
I am not meaning to be derogatory in any way but I would summise that you professional life has been very limited .
I am 40 yrs old and working as an instructor , a job I love . I have been in the armed forces served for many years as a copper , worked in bars shops and abroad.
I can say with a a high degree of certainty that if you were to come out of your airliner and do anyone of these jobs for a short period of time , you would quickly learn what a nice life you have and that maybe your job isnt too bad after all , ask your cabin crew where they would prefer to be , or maybe you should do a few shifts as cabin crew dealing with members of the public and see for yourself the colour of the grass .
You are one of a few pilots I have either heard of or know personally who are young and say they think airliner flying isnt what it should be . All are from integrated courses and had financial assistance through their training from parents . They jumped blindly into the job with no experience of life itself , Uni doesnt count . One of my friends has done the honourable thing and used his degree for other purposes , as you youself may wish to do . He freely admits his mistake .
What you should not be doing is putting people off doing what they have dreamed of just because you made an ill informed career decision .
If I sat in an airliner bored stupid for 6 hours day in and day out , I can draw on the fact that Im not getting threatened , abused ,assaulted ,spat on etc on a day to day basis , I am not sitting in a tent in the chuffing sandpit sweating my cods off away from home 9 months of the year , I dont have peopel bleating at me left right and centre because the price tag was wrong on a 5 quid shirt , I will then think hey maybe this aint so bad .
Like I said I am an instructor and love it for all those out there wishing to be CPL's go for it its great fun , I get paid naff all but it beats the crap out of picking up drunk axxholes and dealing with people who lack the basic social skills to exist within a civilised community
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Yeah, but when you realize that you can't pay off your loans; the grass can be brown on the other side and still look good when you don't have any yourself!
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Well we are all different.. some might not find it boring to get up in the middle of the night to fly on auto pilot for over 3 hours and then get back after just seeing the destination airport. Well.. but I do. I like the short flights, the landings and especially the few times you can do a visual approach. (I have to admit that the thought of flying a float plane or similar instead have crossed my mind a couple of times.) But I can endure the boring time, if it pays off well in terms of coming home to your family, friends and have a creative hobby. But right now I don't have this luxury. But I hope to get it in the next up turn.
But why compare flying with a boring office desk job? There are plenty of other jobs out there that are more creative and fun and I don't think many pilots would settle for anything less.
Just get clear in your mind why you want to do this. I agree with the author that the love of flying isn't a reason enough, especially if you are planning to fly the big jets where you hardly touch the controls, and to get to the jets you have to work hard, sacrifice a lot and this pay to fly programs will for sure not stop.. and you can do a lot of fun with this money instead.
But why compare flying with a boring office desk job? There are plenty of other jobs out there that are more creative and fun and I don't think many pilots would settle for anything less.
Just get clear in your mind why you want to do this. I agree with the author that the love of flying isn't a reason enough, especially if you are planning to fly the big jets where you hardly touch the controls, and to get to the jets you have to work hard, sacrifice a lot and this pay to fly programs will for sure not stop.. and you can do a lot of fun with this money instead.
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Pilots are poorly paid/ underpaid as I found out when I had to switch from the aviation world to a financial one....
Trouble is, when your doning "rose tinted" aviation goggles you just never see the -ve's. I was the same years ago..
Trouble is, when your doning "rose tinted" aviation goggles you just never see the -ve's. I was the same years ago..
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I'm always curious...what are the amazingly better options that are available outside of flying? Which career would any disgruntled pilot prefer to pursue?
For me, doctor= LOTS of studying, LOTS of money to train, LITTLE reward/appreciation, POOR working environment etc etc. This is a job that you really have to WANT (as with flying but more so imo).
Solicitor, pah I would rather not shuffle paper and write letters all day but each to their own.
My only alternate career aspiration is trading financial instruments and we all know how that industry is doing right now.
...You pays your money and takes you choice, life isn't a rehearsal but be sure YOU are happy in any decision you make.
For me, doctor= LOTS of studying, LOTS of money to train, LITTLE reward/appreciation, POOR working environment etc etc. This is a job that you really have to WANT (as with flying but more so imo).
Solicitor, pah I would rather not shuffle paper and write letters all day but each to their own.
My only alternate career aspiration is trading financial instruments and we all know how that industry is doing right now.
...You pays your money and takes you choice, life isn't a rehearsal but be sure YOU are happy in any decision you make.
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Would agree with that 350Z.
I am under no illusion that it is not all roses out there but for me its something I have always wanted to do and am now in a position where I can do all my training without going into debt. I look at it as the money I spend on training is not an investment I will get back and if I even got a job I would be paid less than now (there is more to life than money) but I don't want to look back in many years time and wish I had gone for it. I am really enjoying the training and flying, the challenge is something I have missed in my current job.
Everyone has their own reasons to go down CPL / ATPL route and as long as they realise and understand that nothing is gauranteed then they should do what is best for them.
I say good luck to all of you and wish you the best!
I am under no illusion that it is not all roses out there but for me its something I have always wanted to do and am now in a position where I can do all my training without going into debt. I look at it as the money I spend on training is not an investment I will get back and if I even got a job I would be paid less than now (there is more to life than money) but I don't want to look back in many years time and wish I had gone for it. I am really enjoying the training and flying, the challenge is something I have missed in my current job.
Everyone has their own reasons to go down CPL / ATPL route and as long as they realise and understand that nothing is gauranteed then they should do what is best for them.
I say good luck to all of you and wish you the best!
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I love my job but more importantly I enjoy the money that it offers me and the lifestyle which it affords me to partake in. The day that this drops to an unacceptable level I am out of here and you can kiss your nice sunrises goodbye.
Frankly the guys that are willing to fly for free for the love of it are the ones that will happily kiss away any terms and conditions that this industry has remaining. Perhaps they will only finally get the message when it comes to retirement day and look at their bank balances.
Frankly the guys that are willing to fly for free for the love of it are the ones that will happily kiss away any terms and conditions that this industry has remaining. Perhaps they will only finally get the message when it comes to retirement day and look at their bank balances.
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but it beats the crap out of picking up drunk axxholes and dealing with people who lack the basic social skills to exist within a civilised community
This thread is tosh really, I enjoy industry leading terms and conditions and to be honest, not by a choice of mine but by a merger of two awesome companies. This is a job that's no different to any other but in my opinion, on a scale that is just enormous - and by that I mean you'll get out of it what you put in, but the rewards are something else...I do not consider myself poorly paid by any stretch, I certainly don't work hard and going to work is just a pleasure, I'm just starting 6 rostered days off, worked 2 of them earn't an extra £1000 and am planning a weekend in Palma for me and the missus - and for this reason, I totally echo potkettleblack's comments, I love the lifestyle I can afford because of it...I work to live
To get throught the ATPL training LET ALONE get a GOOD job (you want a reward for the effort/expense/lack of earnings right? - I do not include the donkeys who join CTC or any other pay to fly schemes in this) you've really got to want to do this...you've got to want to test yourself, and push yourself and work hard and be a professional more than you'll ever really know until you're put in that 'first awkward' position with Captains/Senior Cabin Crew/Passengers...
Any doubts at all, it simply isn't for you...save everyone's time and your money and go find another profession.