Cabair Integrated Foundation degree with CPL
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Cabair Integrated Foundation degree with CPL
I would like to ask you guys what suggestions or routes do you think i should do asap before the sept09 academix year starts.
I am 25 years of age, and only have 28hours of ppl study, im working full time and dont have any strong academic background. I have always thought about getting a degree. However I would also like to get a cpl and have future aspirations to become a commercial pilot. I am at a dilemma at the moment, i do not want to continue my employment and wish to start studying asap, but dont know which institutions or providers to choose from.
the choices are:
Aviation Studies for Commercial Pilot Training - FdEng - Course Information - Undergraduate Students - Kingston University London (2yrs)
This course offers a foundation degree along with a CPL.
BA (Hons) Air Transport with Pilot Training at bucks uni. (3yrs)
BSc Honours Degree in Air Transport Operations + ATPL at city university (3yrs)
FTE::Integrated course
Integrated course with FTE, this is quicker, though i would have to secure a loan over house for around £80,000, accomodation included
CTC
£69,000
Distance Learning Courses and Adult Education - The Open University
Just continue my employment, and get a open uni degree in maths etc. and finish off the PPL (might take a while partime)
Ive been told that if i want to become a pilot, i just need to go to a good course provider like ctc, Oxford aviation or fte. others say cabair reputation sucks.. Though i have been dwelling on getting a degree.. regardless of which i choose i still get to get a loan even for the degree integrated courses, minimum of 50K+
are there anyone else in the same situation? or has taken these courses? did u enjoy it?
Hopefully i can get some good feedback, to make a well thoughtout decision asap and maybe benefit others in the same situation.
Thanks people!
I am 25 years of age, and only have 28hours of ppl study, im working full time and dont have any strong academic background. I have always thought about getting a degree. However I would also like to get a cpl and have future aspirations to become a commercial pilot. I am at a dilemma at the moment, i do not want to continue my employment and wish to start studying asap, but dont know which institutions or providers to choose from.
the choices are:
Aviation Studies for Commercial Pilot Training - FdEng - Course Information - Undergraduate Students - Kingston University London (2yrs)
This course offers a foundation degree along with a CPL.
BA (Hons) Air Transport with Pilot Training at bucks uni. (3yrs)
BSc Honours Degree in Air Transport Operations + ATPL at city university (3yrs)
FTE::Integrated course
Integrated course with FTE, this is quicker, though i would have to secure a loan over house for around £80,000, accomodation included
CTC
£69,000
Distance Learning Courses and Adult Education - The Open University
Just continue my employment, and get a open uni degree in maths etc. and finish off the PPL (might take a while partime)
Ive been told that if i want to become a pilot, i just need to go to a good course provider like ctc, Oxford aviation or fte. others say cabair reputation sucks.. Though i have been dwelling on getting a degree.. regardless of which i choose i still get to get a loan even for the degree integrated courses, minimum of 50K+
are there anyone else in the same situation? or has taken these courses? did u enjoy it?
Hopefully i can get some good feedback, to make a well thoughtout decision asap and maybe benefit others in the same situation.
Thanks people!
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ProPwannabe,
I left 6th Form last year, and applied to all of those courses you have mentioned, but withdrew my application because I chose not do to them, but thats by the by and I'll help you out by telling you what I know of the courses.
The Cabair website is misleading, and despite there being a picture of the Bucks New Uni course, subtitled with a "Cabair Integrated" logo, it is not, and neither is the course at Kingston; they're both modular. I went to the open day for both as I was seriously considering them, and if I were to choose, it would've personally been on the Kingston course, because Kingston has more of a background in engineering, so when [if] you do the top-up, you'd be learning more about the engineering side of 'flying' rather than the management side. Both unis are low down on the tables, but Kingston is relatively higher. This is my own view, and by no means reflects that of others, but I was not impressed with the Bucks New Uni course, and it's content, I even requested to attend a lecture, and was taught nothing I didn't already know about pollution. However I think you should visit both universities just to get a feel.
The City course, last year, was my first choice. But the deciding factor were the tuition fees; £9000 for the first year, and £6000 for the 3rd year (the 2nd year would be at your FTO). I did not understand the justifications in charging £15000 for tuition fees, when UK fees were £3145 last year. As a result of being charged "international fees", you are not guaranteed student loans, which put me off completely. £15000 is a massive amount of money, on top of the £60 000 which you've decided to spend on integrated.
I've decided what course to go on this year, as a result of over a year of vacillation and research, and am now just waiting on my offer. Hopefully London Met & Stapleford Flight Centre. But in retrospect, you have left it very late to be deciding this, you probably won't even be able to see the universities now as most will be coming to a close of their final term. If you want any more info on Kingston + Bucks, I've got a load of it, so just PM me.
rriisshhii
I left 6th Form last year, and applied to all of those courses you have mentioned, but withdrew my application because I chose not do to them, but thats by the by and I'll help you out by telling you what I know of the courses.
The Cabair website is misleading, and despite there being a picture of the Bucks New Uni course, subtitled with a "Cabair Integrated" logo, it is not, and neither is the course at Kingston; they're both modular. I went to the open day for both as I was seriously considering them, and if I were to choose, it would've personally been on the Kingston course, because Kingston has more of a background in engineering, so when [if] you do the top-up, you'd be learning more about the engineering side of 'flying' rather than the management side. Both unis are low down on the tables, but Kingston is relatively higher. This is my own view, and by no means reflects that of others, but I was not impressed with the Bucks New Uni course, and it's content, I even requested to attend a lecture, and was taught nothing I didn't already know about pollution. However I think you should visit both universities just to get a feel.
The City course, last year, was my first choice. But the deciding factor were the tuition fees; £9000 for the first year, and £6000 for the 3rd year (the 2nd year would be at your FTO). I did not understand the justifications in charging £15000 for tuition fees, when UK fees were £3145 last year. As a result of being charged "international fees", you are not guaranteed student loans, which put me off completely. £15000 is a massive amount of money, on top of the £60 000 which you've decided to spend on integrated.
I've decided what course to go on this year, as a result of over a year of vacillation and research, and am now just waiting on my offer. Hopefully London Met & Stapleford Flight Centre. But in retrospect, you have left it very late to be deciding this, you probably won't even be able to see the universities now as most will be coming to a close of their final term. If you want any more info on Kingston + Bucks, I've got a load of it, so just PM me.
rriisshhii
I did not understand the justifications in charging £15000 for tuition fees, when UK fees were £3145 last year.
However, when other universities starting offering courses with pilot training something in HEFCE changed and they "designated" those newer courses. However they would not change the decision on City's course.
One of the dangers of being first!
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Does anyone know if it is possible to skip the first 2 year foundation degree course and just complete the top-up year at Kingston Uni if you already hold a PPL, All ATPL theory done, NVQ & BTEC L3 in Aeronautical Engineering?
Cheers
Cheers
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thanks rriisshhii for that,
I know I have left it quite late, this is because of work commitments this year and also ive been applying through cadet with airlines and have been rejected. at the selection process everyone seem to be fresh graduates with degree, and as for me well im jus a cabin crew with some industry experience.
which is why i came to the point that i must get a degree cos everyone else has got one!!! haha
i spoke to kingston university and the chances of me getting onto the course is very slim, plus i have to wait til clearing. on the other hand bucks uni, and having spoke to the course leader the chances are higher.
City university is very expensive, the cost of living in london as well as the course fees. Plus i kinda hate the london tube! :S
I know the bucks uni is quite new so it being low on the league table is not surprising, kingston on the other hand have no excuse! to kill 2 birds with 1 stone im going to opt for bucks uni, i just have to look for funding for the course to cabair and bucks uni aswell as the education.
I wish i done this 5 years ago and do have regrets but thats life!
thanks for your input
I know I have left it quite late, this is because of work commitments this year and also ive been applying through cadet with airlines and have been rejected. at the selection process everyone seem to be fresh graduates with degree, and as for me well im jus a cabin crew with some industry experience.
which is why i came to the point that i must get a degree cos everyone else has got one!!! haha
i spoke to kingston university and the chances of me getting onto the course is very slim, plus i have to wait til clearing. on the other hand bucks uni, and having spoke to the course leader the chances are higher.
City university is very expensive, the cost of living in london as well as the course fees. Plus i kinda hate the london tube! :S
I know the bucks uni is quite new so it being low on the league table is not surprising, kingston on the other hand have no excuse! to kill 2 birds with 1 stone im going to opt for bucks uni, i just have to look for funding for the course to cabair and bucks uni aswell as the education.
I wish i done this 5 years ago and do have regrets but thats life!
thanks for your input
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There are infinitely better ways of becoming a pilot, I get the feeling you are panicing and rushing into something. These degrees with pilot studies are possibly the WORST way of becoming a pilot in my opinion. For the last time, if you want to be a pilot train to be a pilot, if you want to get a degree then get a degree. What you would currently be getting is a useless mongrel of a thing which isn't at all respected. What are the reasons for it? Because it shows you have commitment? So that you can put BSc after your name? Pointless. Work hard in the real world, earn money, train to be a pilot modularly. Job done.
A degree is not going to be anyones saviour, not unless it is Maths, physics, medicine (not so much anymore) or something akin from a proper university. These places are nothing but businesses selling a product. They are subsidised by the government in order to make the governments education figures look better. Don't feel pressured into it.
And why does no one consider the military any more? Because they don't think they'll get in? If so re-consider spending that £95000 by the end of the loans term (and that's with the tame interest rates at the moment).
Get yourself selected rather than just paying for everything.
Pick a way and stick to it.
And don't look for a one-stop-shop fix to things, I would strongly recommend the modular route. If I were starting out again I would work for 2-3 years, meanwhile achieveing a PPL here or abroad. I would then hour build, ATPLs at Bristol GS and go to FTE for their modular package. That or join the military and the military would get the first application, Army, RN and RAF.
A degree is not going to be anyones saviour, not unless it is Maths, physics, medicine (not so much anymore) or something akin from a proper university. These places are nothing but businesses selling a product. They are subsidised by the government in order to make the governments education figures look better. Don't feel pressured into it.
And why does no one consider the military any more? Because they don't think they'll get in? If so re-consider spending that £95000 by the end of the loans term (and that's with the tame interest rates at the moment).
Get yourself selected rather than just paying for everything.
Pick a way and stick to it.
And don't look for a one-stop-shop fix to things, I would strongly recommend the modular route. If I were starting out again I would work for 2-3 years, meanwhile achieveing a PPL here or abroad. I would then hour build, ATPLs at Bristol GS and go to FTE for their modular package. That or join the military and the military would get the first application, Army, RN and RAF.
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The Beak has hit the nail on the head there.... Im in military (ground crew) working and saving from a decent wage! PPL is done, and half way through the ATPLs and hour building.
Modular is by far the best option in my eyes! why spend more money when you dont have to? There is no point rushing atm really, im just glad im in a secure job earning and learning. I sympathize with anyone looking and struggling for work atm, especially after forking out so much on flying training. It cannot be fun!
The reason i asked a question before was ive always wanted a degree, but because of my job and flying training i want something that incorporates everything. So the Kingston Course looks likea good option!
Whatever you decide good luck with it!
also if anyone can answer my query itd be much appreciated!
Modular is by far the best option in my eyes! why spend more money when you dont have to? There is no point rushing atm really, im just glad im in a secure job earning and learning. I sympathize with anyone looking and struggling for work atm, especially after forking out so much on flying training. It cannot be fun!
The reason i asked a question before was ive always wanted a degree, but because of my job and flying training i want something that incorporates everything. So the Kingston Course looks likea good option!
Whatever you decide good luck with it!
also if anyone can answer my query itd be much appreciated!
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To theBeak,
You know what?? ure absolutely right! what the hell am i thinking i dont need a degree to become a pilot, I should get the training done from a specialise fto with excellent reputation and high graduate employment rate. It is also quicker 18months rather than 36 months of integrated degree.
Hmm the only and common problem is finance, i dont think getting a loan is too much of a problem under my name and age, will it be worth it??
I have just applied with
Flight Training Europe S.L.
Good move you guys reckon???
You know what?? ure absolutely right! what the hell am i thinking i dont need a degree to become a pilot, I should get the training done from a specialise fto with excellent reputation and high graduate employment rate. It is also quicker 18months rather than 36 months of integrated degree.
Hmm the only and common problem is finance, i dont think getting a loan is too much of a problem under my name and age, will it be worth it??
I have just applied with
Flight Training Europe S.L.
Good move you guys reckon???
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ProPWannabe,
I am by no means an expert on this subject, in fact I am in a similar situation to you; a wannabe. But it seems that your decision making appears to be a bit rash? I mean a few hours ago you were considering going to university, but then suddenly decided to apply to FTE? Correct me if I'm wrong, and you've done lots of homework on the subject. It might just me being a bit jealous...FTE was where I really wanted to go but simply couldn't cope with the costs.
My choice to go down the university route is in the hopes that I will save some money from the loans to pay for the training, albeit only a small amount or at least the accommodation, but primarily to have some fun whilst I'm doing the course; I'm only 19.
@TheBeak,
You said that if you were to do it again, you'd gain your PPL gradually, go to Bristol GS and then move onto FTE Jerez for the modular course. I'm a bit nonplussed with this subject, but do prospective airlines not look down on a seemingly lack of continuity with FTOs, or is this only/more applicable to what happens after the hour build? I'm hoping to do my training completely at Stapleford, however the course at FTE is fairly tempting but as of now, I'm set on SFC. Although who knows what will happen once I've finished my PPL and ATPLs in 2 years time?
I am by no means an expert on this subject, in fact I am in a similar situation to you; a wannabe. But it seems that your decision making appears to be a bit rash? I mean a few hours ago you were considering going to university, but then suddenly decided to apply to FTE? Correct me if I'm wrong, and you've done lots of homework on the subject. It might just me being a bit jealous...FTE was where I really wanted to go but simply couldn't cope with the costs.
My choice to go down the university route is in the hopes that I will save some money from the loans to pay for the training, albeit only a small amount or at least the accommodation, but primarily to have some fun whilst I'm doing the course; I'm only 19.
@TheBeak,
You said that if you were to do it again, you'd gain your PPL gradually, go to Bristol GS and then move onto FTE Jerez for the modular course. I'm a bit nonplussed with this subject, but do prospective airlines not look down on a seemingly lack of continuity with FTOs, or is this only/more applicable to what happens after the hour build? I'm hoping to do my training completely at Stapleford, however the course at FTE is fairly tempting but as of now, I'm set on SFC. Although who knows what will happen once I've finished my PPL and ATPLs in 2 years time?
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hi riissshhii,
yes i am making very rash decisions, because i am desperate and having spoke to the course leader at bucks, he had to point out that i have to make the decision very soon based on the lateness of my enquiry.
However, i looked at the wider picture and thought if im going to get a loan lets say for 50k for the cabair training, i would also need to get a loan for the degree which is now £3k+a year so 3 years it be £9-10k. so that plus the £50k+ and the flight tickets u need to go to florida to do the training, and the accomodation needed for bucks campus, its around £70k.
Now i look at FTE, £89k the whole package included plus meals 3times a day, which i think is worth considering since i wont be earning money then. It probably offer better prospects with their partner airlines when done over the degree.
Remember Riisshhii, although we are in the same situation, im not young anymore!
im 25, youre only 19! which is why my decision making is being really rash cos before you know it im coming very close to my 30s!!!
3 years degree or 2 years straight to the point specialise course on getting a pilot license and relevant licenses to be a competent FO. and thats the reason why. Though i thank you very much for your input, and wish you all the best, i keep ya posted on my progress!
I really hope i can get a loan for this, can anyone suggestion any funding options?
thanks
yes i am making very rash decisions, because i am desperate and having spoke to the course leader at bucks, he had to point out that i have to make the decision very soon based on the lateness of my enquiry.
However, i looked at the wider picture and thought if im going to get a loan lets say for 50k for the cabair training, i would also need to get a loan for the degree which is now £3k+a year so 3 years it be £9-10k. so that plus the £50k+ and the flight tickets u need to go to florida to do the training, and the accomodation needed for bucks campus, its around £70k.
Now i look at FTE, £89k the whole package included plus meals 3times a day, which i think is worth considering since i wont be earning money then. It probably offer better prospects with their partner airlines when done over the degree.
Remember Riisshhii, although we are in the same situation, im not young anymore!
im 25, youre only 19! which is why my decision making is being really rash cos before you know it im coming very close to my 30s!!!3 years degree or 2 years straight to the point specialise course on getting a pilot license and relevant licenses to be a competent FO. and thats the reason why. Though i thank you very much for your input, and wish you all the best, i keep ya posted on my progress!
I really hope i can get a loan for this, can anyone suggestion any funding options?
thanks
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I understand, that's fair enough. If you're still deciding between Cabair & Bucks, and FTE, I'd go for FTE based on those prices you quoted. However, some people (including myself) have been sent e-mails regarding FTE's price reduction in their integrated cost - now £76 000, reduced by £5000. You should definitely enquire about that.
Good luck
rriisshhii
Good luck
rriisshhii
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No rush
Remember Riisshhii, although we are in the same situation, im not young anymore! 
im 25, youre only 19! which is why my decision making is being really rash cos before you know it im coming very close to my 30s!!!
im 25, youre only 19! which is why my decision making is being really rash cos before you know it im coming very close to my 30s!!!
Last edited by vlieger; 25th Jun 2009 at 04:21. Reason: spelling
These degrees with pilot studies are possibly the WORST way of becoming a pilot in my opinion. For the last time, if you want to be a pilot train to be a pilot, if you want to get a degree then get a degree. What you would currently be getting is a useless mongrel of a thing which isn't at all respected.
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Hi Groundloop, you clearly have an interest in them. I am aware of the content, yes. They make you a jack of all trades and a master of none and in my opinion a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. I just don't see the point in them.
I am sure they were and I am sure they did but who knows! Luck achieved them the interview and their characters and knowledge will have won them the job, NOT the degree.
A number of graduates from the City course have reported that they were asked a lot of questions about their degree course at their airline interview and they definitely got the impression it helped them get the job.
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@ TheBeak
I have also been on one of these courses and think very highly of them. You say it makes you the jack of all trades and the master of none??? Well would that not mean that you are the jack of SOME trades, and still the master of NONE? As we have done EXACTLY the same as you have done, and a hell of a lot more!
@ ProPwannabe
To be honest, I would reccommend a course to you, and like rriisshhii, I would reccommend the Kingston course, mainly because I have been on it
I know these degree courses have critisisms, but so do Oxford, CTC, FTE, and any other establishment and there are many people out there who will put other companies down wether its due to competition, word of mouth, jealousy etc.
Best advice I would give is, do what feels best for you. If you have 70k to hand to chuck into an integrated course and its what you want then do it, if you want to take you time and go modular with no degree then do it, or if you want a degree and an ATPL at the time when hopefully things will be looking up then do that. Whatever you choose, dont rush into it! Think about which is best for you, even if it means delaying another year.
To finish, I have been to 3 interviews with different companies, and all 3 have questioned a fair bit on the degree course. Yes it may not be the main deciding factor, but if 2 identical candidates performed identically in an interview and were exactly the same in all ways except one had the degree, it may just come into use. Plus, it is great fun and it teaches a lot more than a normal modular or integrated course does.
I have also been on one of these courses and think very highly of them. You say it makes you the jack of all trades and the master of none??? Well would that not mean that you are the jack of SOME trades, and still the master of NONE? As we have done EXACTLY the same as you have done, and a hell of a lot more!
@ ProPwannabe
To be honest, I would reccommend a course to you, and like rriisshhii, I would reccommend the Kingston course, mainly because I have been on it
I know these degree courses have critisisms, but so do Oxford, CTC, FTE, and any other establishment and there are many people out there who will put other companies down wether its due to competition, word of mouth, jealousy etc.
Best advice I would give is, do what feels best for you. If you have 70k to hand to chuck into an integrated course and its what you want then do it, if you want to take you time and go modular with no degree then do it, or if you want a degree and an ATPL at the time when hopefully things will be looking up then do that. Whatever you choose, dont rush into it! Think about which is best for you, even if it means delaying another year.
To finish, I have been to 3 interviews with different companies, and all 3 have questioned a fair bit on the degree course. Yes it may not be the main deciding factor, but if 2 identical candidates performed identically in an interview and were exactly the same in all ways except one had the degree, it may just come into use. Plus, it is great fun and it teaches a lot more than a normal modular or integrated course does.