Where are all the OAA pilots?
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Mad Jock
While I certainly agree with a lot of what you say regarding recruitment, learning curves and employers preferences when it comes to selecting candidates for the RHS, I don't however agree with some of the tosh that you (and you are not alone on this) say about FR. By no means do I maintain a 'We'll support you ever more' attitude to the company, however some things benig banded about at the minute holds little truth and has only really been constructed to suit the 'haters' out there.
£35,000 for a 737 SSTR with FR. Really! 
Where on earth are people getting this codswallop from? Is it one of those, 'my mate, who's a pilot, knows another person who's a pilot, who konws someone else who knows someone else....and that person used to work for Ryanair' stories? I can tell you, if this is true, no one in Ryanair is talking about it which is extremely unusual, completely out of character and by all accounts bizarre, especially considering the extremity of this statement! In my opinion this rumour has come straight from someone who has failed the FR assessment, failed the TR course or failed the base check (it happens unfortunately).
That much is true - you don't work for Ryanair. Given half the chance, I and others would. If you aren't already aware, BALPA and it's members are devoting a lot of time into gaining recognition within the airline. Tihs is one of the issues which they are looking to address. So all in all, I am not saying that the agency scenario is right. But I and others don't 'prostitute' ourselves either. At the end of the day, you and you alone, make the choice. Agency or not, Ryanair is one of the more stable entities in today's turbulent environment. Sure we'd all love more rights and a choice of contract, and I don't ay that flipently, however at the moment I am glad to be flying and earning an income. (And I have over 500hrs on type as well!)
But sure, you have heard all this before? All the best.
35k for a RYR type rating
RYR have started kicking FO's out after 500 hours on line
I say working but all it is really is a revenue stream for RYR and you don't actually work for them you prostitute yourself a contract agency with no employment rights.
But sure, you have heard all this before? All the best.
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Unless I'm getting him confused with someone else I seem to recall TheBeak was an Oxford modular student who followed it with a SSTR. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.
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That's around about right Alex. I am not out to squabble, I am just offering my opinion. There are many ways to achieve the goal of becoming a pilot and I think the greatest factors of all are luck and timing. If your way has worked for you (to all of you) and you are happy with the service you have had and the way things are then great. If I feel so inclined, I will continue to offer my opinion to anyone who asks, and will do so with the best of intentions. I don't have a crystal ball and I DO adore flying but I personally wouldn't recommend flying training now and certainly wouldn't via the integrated route (not because of the standards or ways of training but solely because of the price). I hate the thought of people ruining themselves or even worse putting immense strains on their families for something that has a strong possiblilty of not happening any time soon. But who knows......I personally don't think the industry is all that unfair either, it is if you expect everything to go your way, but that's not life. In future take my opinions as an open debate - me putting my point forward and you putting yours forward. No one needs to justify themselves on here, in my opinion - if their advice makes sense then accept it, if it doesn't then discard it. It is very clear who doesn't have a clue and who does and I would say the majority on this particular thread, though having differing views, do have a clue.
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TheBeak.
I fully agree with just about every single point you have raised there. Very good post.
Particularly the piece about luck and timing playing a far greater role than your choice of training.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that baseless opinion DOES need to be challenged and validated or withdrawn.
PARTICULARLY on this forum - it is VITAL here - for the simple reason that no-one has ever done more than one variety of training. [And actually, as an aside, even if someone did go and train in each location, it would be invalid as you can only ever be a total beginner once.]
This forum exists to help people form [their own] opinion on the training options available and for that reason it's critical that "facts" are indeed the truth, not some half made up 'truth' as perceived by one particular person, based on ??? which is easily disproven.
If opinion masquerading as fact is allowed to go unchecked, then people form dangerous and incorrect opinions of the options open to them.
For example, I personally have seen posts offering the following bits of advice over the time I've been actively registered.
How dangerous would it be if one who was about to spend upwards of £50k listened to these "pearls" and coloured their world view because of them:
- all modular students ONLY go modular because they can't afford integrated
- all modular students ONLY go modular because they couldn't get on to an integrated course
- All integrated students are 18 and are paid for by Mummy and daddy
- BA only ever hire people from an integrated background, so if you have aspirations to work for them you have to go integrated
- Airlines prefer integrated students, so an integrated will always find it easier to get a job.
-....the list goes on and on.
Anyone with even half a brain can see all of the above are absolute garbage. And this is why baseless opinion HAS to be challenged, here of all places.
Opinion is fine and useful, but it has to be tempered with the knowledge that YOUR opinion may not fit for anyone or everyone else. Further, opinion such as "I didn't think OAA was for me, as it was too expensive/not the right training environment" etc is fine -as it IS an opinion, based on whatever reasons that individual found and should be encouraged. Opinion such as "NJE have dropped all their remaining cadets and OAA have refused to help them" are presenting themselves as fact where actually they are ill founded and inaccurate. These posts deserve to be held to account. THIS is what I seek to redress - and any topic involving the words OAA or Ryanair or - worse- both will ALWAYS bring the crap comments out.
If you've been to OAA on Waypoint, then you'll know there's more than enough bad points that one could validly highlight, but there's also an awful lot that's good about the place.
I fully agree with just about every single point you have raised there. Very good post.
Particularly the piece about luck and timing playing a far greater role than your choice of training.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that baseless opinion DOES need to be challenged and validated or withdrawn.
PARTICULARLY on this forum - it is VITAL here - for the simple reason that no-one has ever done more than one variety of training. [And actually, as an aside, even if someone did go and train in each location, it would be invalid as you can only ever be a total beginner once.]
This forum exists to help people form [their own] opinion on the training options available and for that reason it's critical that "facts" are indeed the truth, not some half made up 'truth' as perceived by one particular person, based on ??? which is easily disproven.
If opinion masquerading as fact is allowed to go unchecked, then people form dangerous and incorrect opinions of the options open to them.
For example, I personally have seen posts offering the following bits of advice over the time I've been actively registered.
How dangerous would it be if one who was about to spend upwards of £50k listened to these "pearls" and coloured their world view because of them:
- all modular students ONLY go modular because they can't afford integrated
- all modular students ONLY go modular because they couldn't get on to an integrated course
- All integrated students are 18 and are paid for by Mummy and daddy
- BA only ever hire people from an integrated background, so if you have aspirations to work for them you have to go integrated
- Airlines prefer integrated students, so an integrated will always find it easier to get a job.
-....the list goes on and on.
Anyone with even half a brain can see all of the above are absolute garbage. And this is why baseless opinion HAS to be challenged, here of all places.
Opinion is fine and useful, but it has to be tempered with the knowledge that YOUR opinion may not fit for anyone or everyone else. Further, opinion such as "I didn't think OAA was for me, as it was too expensive/not the right training environment" etc is fine -as it IS an opinion, based on whatever reasons that individual found and should be encouraged. Opinion such as "NJE have dropped all their remaining cadets and OAA have refused to help them" are presenting themselves as fact where actually they are ill founded and inaccurate. These posts deserve to be held to account. THIS is what I seek to redress - and any topic involving the words OAA or Ryanair or - worse- both will ALWAYS bring the crap comments out.
If you've been to OAA on Waypoint, then you'll know there's more than enough bad points that one could validly highlight, but there's also an awful lot that's good about the place.
Last edited by clanger32; 10th Jun 2009 at 14:48.
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clanger raises a good point, and it really comes down to not believing everything you read on this site, and taking it a with a pinch of salt.
Equally, people in general dont like admitting they've made big mistakes - especially when they've spent £50k+ - and so you get very few saying they're stacking shelves with their frozen ATPL, whilst struggling to pay the interest on the loans - but that's a whole new debate!
Lastly, when people have "made it", unfortunately very few come back to the pprune wannabes forums (with certain key exceptions) and so it's really just the blind leading the blind!
Equally, people in general dont like admitting they've made big mistakes - especially when they've spent £50k+ - and so you get very few saying they're stacking shelves with their frozen ATPL, whilst struggling to pay the interest on the loans - but that's a whole new debate!
Lastly, when people have "made it", unfortunately very few come back to the pprune wannabes forums (with certain key exceptions) and so it's really just the blind leading the blind!
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Being one of those who has made it into the seat of a B737-800, not Ryanair btw, I find it is more the blind not bothering what you say.
I am happy to help anyone, but am frequently ignored or even accused of not knowing anything because so and so's best mates mother in-laws sisters friend know better.
I still try though as it is in my nature.
I am happy to help anyone, but am frequently ignored or even accused of not knowing anything because so and so's best mates mother in-laws sisters friend know better.
I still try though as it is in my nature.
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I'm somewhat of a rarity in that I finished my MCC in November 2008 and final VFR/Aero flights in February 2009 yet managed to be amongst the last into NetJets.
I VERY rarely find the time to come back online to this site as it tends to get very dull seeing the same questions / arguments ad nauseam.
Also, in my current company, no more than 10% of the flight crew are active on the crew forum let alone this poisonous place.
So it is not necessarily indicative of the lack of success of OAA students compare to the other FTO's. But saying that, there is no way on earth I would start training now or in the next 12 months. But everyone's decision is based on their own personal set of circumstances and at 31, mine make me particularly risk-averse.
Saying that, I am very happy being paid to be in Ibiza and it looks like we are on standby tomorrow so it's a tough life
PS - note-to-self, don't post on PPrune after a trip to the bar with your TRI, you generally regret it later ....
I VERY rarely find the time to come back online to this site as it tends to get very dull seeing the same questions / arguments ad nauseam.
Also, in my current company, no more than 10% of the flight crew are active on the crew forum let alone this poisonous place.
So it is not necessarily indicative of the lack of success of OAA students compare to the other FTO's. But saying that, there is no way on earth I would start training now or in the next 12 months. But everyone's decision is based on their own personal set of circumstances and at 31, mine make me particularly risk-averse.
Saying that, I am very happy being paid to be in Ibiza and it looks like we are on standby tomorrow so it's a tough life
PS - note-to-self, don't post on PPrune after a trip to the bar with your TRI, you generally regret it later ....
