OAA employment statistics
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OAA employment statistics
This is just a genereal question about emplyment statistics on the OAA site. As far as I can see its the only organisation that posts them and wanted to get an idea of whats going on with job opportunities at the moment.
Please note that I have nothing to prove or want to criticize any FTO.
The statistics state that 53 have found work so far this year.I can see that 26 were Ryanair took 26 so i assume SSTR and that Netjets took 15, which I think is a training partner.
So I think that 12 have found employment the old fashioned non supported/SSTR way.
It would just be interesting to find out how many people went through the APP course and if the amount of people in training has reduced significantly?
And as a percentage how many have found work without being in a scheme or SSTR.
I suppoose I want to get an idea that with so many unemplyed pilots out there is the influx of F-ATPL'ers continuing or is there a trend of the market evening itself out IF there is a future shortage of flight crew.
Please note that I have nothing to prove or want to criticize any FTO.
The statistics state that 53 have found work so far this year.I can see that 26 were Ryanair took 26 so i assume SSTR and that Netjets took 15, which I think is a training partner.
So I think that 12 have found employment the old fashioned non supported/SSTR way.
It would just be interesting to find out how many people went through the APP course and if the amount of people in training has reduced significantly?
And as a percentage how many have found work without being in a scheme or SSTR.
I suppoose I want to get an idea that with so many unemplyed pilots out there is the influx of F-ATPL'ers continuing or is there a trend of the market evening itself out IF there is a future shortage of flight crew.
A few years ago, when I was on the recieving end of a presentation from OAA, one of the questions that was asked (after their statement of "we placed XXX cadets with airlines last year, and XX per month") was "It's all very nice that your placing XXX cadets with airlines per year, but how many cadets are going through your door over the same period of time, roughly?"
To which OAA's reply was "We placed XXX cadets last year". Repeatedly.
I always thought that was interesting.
(ps Although i haven't been through OAA myself, i know several people that have, and they all say that it has its good and bad points. No axe to grind here...)
To which OAA's reply was "We placed XXX cadets last year". Repeatedly.
I always thought that was interesting.
(ps Although i haven't been through OAA myself, i know several people that have, and they all say that it has its good and bad points. No axe to grind here...)
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(timesreader) Sounds like you got them in a sticky situation there 
Whilst having been to look around OAT and the likes of CTC, CTC a while back did like to mention that they have had 100% placement with their students, but as you say just giving employment stats means nothing without comparing figures of student pilots v those employed. Would be good to show this as percentage stats.
In times like now anyone is lucky to get a job, some are still getting them, but only a few. I read that even CTC wasn't able to place students for the first time when Aer Lingus couldn't take them on, I think this is all sorted out though now.
If I had the choice between OAT or CTC, I think I'd go with CTC.
Whilst having been to look around OAT and the likes of CTC, CTC a while back did like to mention that they have had 100% placement with their students, but as you say just giving employment stats means nothing without comparing figures of student pilots v those employed. Would be good to show this as percentage stats.
In times like now anyone is lucky to get a job, some are still getting them, but only a few. I read that even CTC wasn't able to place students for the first time when Aer Lingus couldn't take them on, I think this is all sorted out though now.
If I had the choice between OAT or CTC, I think I'd go with CTC.
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me too I have my statistic:
The statistics state that 53043435363636363 have found work so far this year.I can see that 2635357575757 were Ryanair took 26353356647575 so i assume SSTR and that Netjets took 1568675754, which I think is a training partner.
and these statistic are 100% accurate
The statistics state that 53043435363636363 have found work so far this year.I can see that 2635357575757 were Ryanair took 26353356647575 so i assume SSTR and that Netjets took 1568675754, which I think is a training partner.
and these statistic are 100% accurate
As Disraeli once (allegedly) said "There are lies, damned lies and statistics".
As has been said many times, by many different people on these boards, you will not get a true representation from ANY fto. To do this would just be ludicrous from a business point of view. They are not there to provide a service, to grant wishes or fulfill dreams. They are purely there to make money, and if they can do that by "stretching the truth" then they will. After all, it is their jobs on the line at the end of the day...
I'm sure CTC did have a 100% placement rate. But how long were people waiting before they got placed, and who were they placed with? I know someone who has, like many others, gone down the Ryanair route. He will be classed as a "placement" by his FTO, despite completing the course jusst over a year ago.
Look beyond the statistics. Think for yourselves. Have your eyes wide, wide open.
As has been said many times, by many different people on these boards, you will not get a true representation from ANY fto. To do this would just be ludicrous from a business point of view. They are not there to provide a service, to grant wishes or fulfill dreams. They are purely there to make money, and if they can do that by "stretching the truth" then they will. After all, it is their jobs on the line at the end of the day...
I'm sure CTC did have a 100% placement rate. But how long were people waiting before they got placed, and who were they placed with? I know someone who has, like many others, gone down the Ryanair route. He will be classed as a "placement" by his FTO, despite completing the course jusst over a year ago.
Look beyond the statistics. Think for yourselves. Have your eyes wide, wide open.
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Also as well those figures include all the courses. I was listed as a OAA success statistic even though I only did the distance learning course.
If you have had a dump in the training centrer and they find out that you have managed to get a job in an airline you are fair game to be included in those statistics. I know one lad who managed to be included twice (he was also a mod trained pilot who had only done distance learning with them) as the first company went bust just after he completed line training. Luckily he got another job 2 weeks later on a different type and strangely enough appeared twice in one year.
You can't even get the numbers from the CAA on how many individuals
1. Get an intial class 1
2. pass one ATPL exam
3. Complete all 14 exams
4. Complete a CPL GFT
5. Complete an IR GFT.
6. Complete an initial type rating. Although this is a bit off these days because of muppets paying for their own without a job afterwards.
Apparently its highly commercially sensitive information. I wonder why? (that's rubbish I know why, its because the whole industry would collapse if wannabies knew what the real chances were of them sitting in the RHS)
Unfortunately I realise that for me to go through my training costing as it did 35k and get a job another 5-10 people will have spent 150-200k and will not ever get to sit in the flightdeck of an airliner.
If you have had a dump in the training centrer and they find out that you have managed to get a job in an airline you are fair game to be included in those statistics. I know one lad who managed to be included twice (he was also a mod trained pilot who had only done distance learning with them) as the first company went bust just after he completed line training. Luckily he got another job 2 weeks later on a different type and strangely enough appeared twice in one year.
You can't even get the numbers from the CAA on how many individuals
1. Get an intial class 1
2. pass one ATPL exam
3. Complete all 14 exams
4. Complete a CPL GFT
5. Complete an IR GFT.
6. Complete an initial type rating. Although this is a bit off these days because of muppets paying for their own without a job afterwards.
Apparently its highly commercially sensitive information. I wonder why? (that's rubbish I know why, its because the whole industry would collapse if wannabies knew what the real chances were of them sitting in the RHS)
Unfortunately I realise that for me to go through my training costing as it did 35k and get a job another 5-10 people will have spent 150-200k and will not ever get to sit in the flightdeck of an airliner.
Last edited by mad_jock; 9th May 2009 at 19:54.
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you will not get a true representation from ANY fto. To do this would just be ludicrous from a business point of view.
While I was doing my CPL training at a certain British FTO, I did hear their people advise a potential customer on one occasion (or rather, his parents) on the phone that the chances of finding a job as a commercial pilot were minimal, while on another occasion they recommended another candidate to attend another (non-associated) school based on geographical proximity and quality of training. I believe it was actually school policy to give this sort of, shall we say, candid advise.
I will not name the school concerned either in public or privately, so nobody thinks I have an axe to grind. This is just to question the one specific assertion I have quoted in my reply, based on my experience, while still agreeing in general terms with the rest of the post.
deranged_scotsman:
You can't even get the numbers from the CAA on how many individuals [....]
Last edited by LH2; 9th May 2009 at 22:34. Reason: editorial changes for better clarity
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I tried to get it about 5 years ago.
They produce this http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...0&pageid=10420
But there is no key and although CPL is listed you can't work out how many folk are getting produced per year who are CPL/IR qualified. If it does mean 1331 low houred pilots came on the market in 2007-2008 I can only see 50-60% of them getting jobs and that was in the "boom" years with everyone expanding. Same number today I could see only 20% of them getting jobs and only 10% if you choose to ignore the pay to fly schemes
I don't know if anyone has tried under the freedom of information act to try and get the numbers. But it would be interesting.
They produce this http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...0&pageid=10420
But there is no key and although CPL is listed you can't work out how many folk are getting produced per year who are CPL/IR qualified. If it does mean 1331 low houred pilots came on the market in 2007-2008 I can only see 50-60% of them getting jobs and that was in the "boom" years with everyone expanding. Same number today I could see only 20% of them getting jobs and only 10% if you choose to ignore the pay to fly schemes
I don't know if anyone has tried under the freedom of information act to try and get the numbers. But it would be interesting.
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P.S
Is response to the above, flight training and Graduate statistics are published in FTN for all aviation licenses. Naturally this gives little indication as to the job market due to the number of Airline liquidations etc!
With regards to job offers, of the Oxford crowd i trained with from July 07 onwards, I'd say the recruitment numbers are leaning more towards 50% + (Not Including Sponsored Students and the 'Rent-an-airbus' for £40,000 crowd)
Regards
CR
Is response to the above, flight training and Graduate statistics are published in FTN for all aviation licenses. Naturally this gives little indication as to the job market due to the number of Airline liquidations etc!
With regards to job offers, of the Oxford crowd i trained with from July 07 onwards, I'd say the recruitment numbers are leaning more towards 50% + (Not Including Sponsored Students and the 'Rent-an-airbus' for £40,000 crowd)
Regards
CR
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Whatever statistics you come up with don't forget that they will be for UK CAA issued licences and ratings. You then need to add on all the other EU bods (and US/Canadian/Commonwealth etc with right to live and work) that are competing for the same jobs in the UK and Ireland.
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Mad Jock,
Perhaps it is possible to infer the number from the amount of ATPL(A)s being issued. If one is comfortable with the assumption that the ATPL(A) issues are mostly for previous low houred guys as opposed to the other possible stream of foreign converts then I suppose it is possible to see some correlation year on year with the CPL issues, suggesting that most eventually get jobs.
Perhaps it is possible to infer the number from the amount of ATPL(A)s being issued. If one is comfortable with the assumption that the ATPL(A) issues are mostly for previous low houred guys as opposed to the other possible stream of foreign converts then I suppose it is possible to see some correlation year on year with the CPL issues, suggesting that most eventually get jobs.
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personally, I eared from some recruiters, that the don't accept OAA pilots.
The reason is they think they can find a job just because they have the money. These recruiters don't like this kind of attitude.
A recruiter told me one day he put in the bin the CV of guys who write they come from Oxford.These recruiters have a hard time to get a job, and they apply the same system to his candidates. They like to see dedication, people having flown in Africa or flying small planes, flight instructors,etc....
I don't think you have more chance to get a job coming from OAA or any modular schools. I have never eared anyone asking me if I was modular or integrated.This is oh so British!
If they ask me, I would sy "integrated"even when I was modular. why? because I am "integrated" in my profession, it means you like what you do!
and by the way, integrated means "easy bankrupt" too....so think twice before enrolling in these integrated schools cuz they will suck you dry!.
The reason is they think they can find a job just because they have the money. These recruiters don't like this kind of attitude.
A recruiter told me one day he put in the bin the CV of guys who write they come from Oxford.These recruiters have a hard time to get a job, and they apply the same system to his candidates. They like to see dedication, people having flown in Africa or flying small planes, flight instructors,etc....
I don't think you have more chance to get a job coming from OAA or any modular schools. I have never eared anyone asking me if I was modular or integrated.This is oh so British!
If they ask me, I would sy "integrated"even when I was modular. why? because I am "integrated" in my profession, it means you like what you do!
and by the way, integrated means "easy bankrupt" too....so think twice before enrolling in these integrated schools cuz they will suck you dry!.
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Batman,
I'm not sure how you qualify dedication as having flown in Africa or been a flight instructor. I can assure you that the majority of people who go through integrated flying training as opposed to modular as just as dedicated. And most of them know that when they come out of the other side and start job hunting, it won't be a walk in the park.
Sorry for the thread drift, comments like the one above just wind me up.
I'm not sure how you qualify dedication as having flown in Africa or been a flight instructor. I can assure you that the majority of people who go through integrated flying training as opposed to modular as just as dedicated. And most of them know that when they come out of the other side and start job hunting, it won't be a walk in the park.
Sorry for the thread drift, comments like the one above just wind me up.
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This is something I have been wondering about myself. Not having attended any of the big FTO's myself I don't have first hand experience of the numbers they put through.
From OAA'S own forum, it says they start a course every month. Looking at APP course websites I guess there is about 20 per course, giving 200+ integrated folks per year. Perhaps a bit of a crude way of working a figure out but wouldn't think it could be too far off.
No idea if numbers are down at the integrated schools, but FTE Jerez are now offering Modular Flight Training again. This was suspended a couple of years ago to make way for integrated folk I believe.
From OAA'S own forum, it says they start a course every month. Looking at APP course websites I guess there is about 20 per course, giving 200+ integrated folks per year. Perhaps a bit of a crude way of working a figure out but wouldn't think it could be too far off.
No idea if numbers are down at the integrated schools, but FTE Jerez are now offering Modular Flight Training again. This was suspended a couple of years ago to make way for integrated folk I believe.