Flybe MPL at Oxford (commences 1 September 2009)
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Well it's not an aptitude book as such, but I still recommend "Speed Mathematics" by Bill Handley.
As for the rest of it - good GCSE Physics and reasonable hand-eye co-ordination will see you through most of the COMPASS Tests (and sim assessment) from what I recall.
FF
As for the rest of it - good GCSE Physics and reasonable hand-eye co-ordination will see you through most of the COMPASS Tests (and sim assessment) from what I recall.
FF
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Yeah, I would agree it is a good book. I personally found that you have to read, understand and be able to do almost every chapter to get the most use out of it. The first few chapters are great for improving your confidence with numbers, but only work with numbers close to 10 and 5 or multipyling similar numbers like, 95 x 96 etc. (quite hard to explain, buy the book you will see what I mean).
It is easier than the Trachtenberg system though. If anything, aside from airline assessments, it is very impressive showing people these techniques of doing mental calculations. You can actually start doing certain calculations faster than someone can put the numbers into a calculator. So I do also highly recommend it.
Does anyone else have any state secrets they are willing to share ?
It is easier than the Trachtenberg system though. If anything, aside from airline assessments, it is very impressive showing people these techniques of doing mental calculations. You can actually start doing certain calculations faster than someone can put the numbers into a calculator. So I do also highly recommend it.
Does anyone else have any state secrets they are willing to share ?
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Just got the reply.. anyone for 15th/16th June? Did anyone get sent any study material from OAA as I've not been sent any? (Although had a few issues with my e-mail which may be why!).
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Well i've been accepted for stage 2, only to find my dates were when I was having a Physics exam, enquired as if I could have any other alternative dates for assessment and they say either the 8th+9th June or the 15th+ 16th.
Ask my boss and the only time I can have off work is the 15th and 16th, so I've asked OAA if they would accept these dates, only for them to reply saying the 15/16th are full!!
So I guess I'm going to give it a miss. Bit of a bummer it's not completely funded!
Ask my boss and the only time I can have off work is the 15th and 16th, so I've asked OAA if they would accept these dates, only for them to reply saying the 15/16th are full!!
So I guess I'm going to give it a miss. Bit of a bummer it's not completely funded!
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Are you seriously just going to give up? How badly do you want this?
I could be wrong but from what you have written, it looks like you have only e-mailed them ??
Phone them, they have a few people dedicated to this scheme. Two of the direct phone numbers are in the e-mail. See if anyone else is in the same situation as you, who could swap dates, or has even cancelled. At least ask them to contact you, if a place does arise.
Of course you can't miss your exams, but regarding work and I don't know what you do (if I had to guess, I would say it involves more paper than it does people) speak to them, stress the importance of this to you. Explain you will make up for it where you can. It makes a difference if they think you are going for a rare opportunity, instead of going to a music festival, for example!
If you have done all of this, and I am wrong in any way, then let me know and I will delete this post. I just know how frustrating it can be, having so many things preventing you, and it just seems you are going to give up. The competition and the scheme itself is going to be hard enough, and you have thrown the towel in at the application stage.
I am sure many would say, if you cannot be bothered to chase this up and do everything, to get to the assessment, then you aren't really what OAA and Flybe are looking for. If you think about it, the interview questions along the lines of what life experience do you have, are to find out how mature you are. Would you keep fighting if things got tough, or do you just surrender. That is why it is normally the older cadets that get through, (things being equal, ie. funding etc). They would have been like you, but some point in their life realised that things won't just fall into your lap, you have to go out there and get it, if you want it.
This will be quite embarrasing if it doesn't apply to you, but maybe you just need some motivation. Give it a shot!
Best of luck and let me know if you do manage to get a new assessment.
P.S - OAA haven't sent any study packs out, I think it was exclusive to FTE.
I could be wrong but from what you have written, it looks like you have only e-mailed them ??
Phone them, they have a few people dedicated to this scheme. Two of the direct phone numbers are in the e-mail. See if anyone else is in the same situation as you, who could swap dates, or has even cancelled. At least ask them to contact you, if a place does arise.
Of course you can't miss your exams, but regarding work and I don't know what you do (if I had to guess, I would say it involves more paper than it does people) speak to them, stress the importance of this to you. Explain you will make up for it where you can. It makes a difference if they think you are going for a rare opportunity, instead of going to a music festival, for example!
If you have done all of this, and I am wrong in any way, then let me know and I will delete this post. I just know how frustrating it can be, having so many things preventing you, and it just seems you are going to give up. The competition and the scheme itself is going to be hard enough, and you have thrown the towel in at the application stage.
I am sure many would say, if you cannot be bothered to chase this up and do everything, to get to the assessment, then you aren't really what OAA and Flybe are looking for. If you think about it, the interview questions along the lines of what life experience do you have, are to find out how mature you are. Would you keep fighting if things got tough, or do you just surrender. That is why it is normally the older cadets that get through, (things being equal, ie. funding etc). They would have been like you, but some point in their life realised that things won't just fall into your lap, you have to go out there and get it, if you want it.
This will be quite embarrasing if it doesn't apply to you, but maybe you just need some motivation. Give it a shot!
Best of luck and let me know if you do manage to get a new assessment.
P.S - OAA haven't sent any study packs out, I think it was exclusive to FTE.
Last edited by SimonBlame; 29th May 2009 at 11:36.
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From what a lot of people have already mentioned, it's a huge gamble, and my Mum is not too happy about having such a large sum of money placed over her house when she has only just finished paying off the mortgage 2 years ago. It's extremely expensive when living accomodation, food etc is factored in. 
Secondly, £200 for the assessment is a lot of money considering apparently only 5% of applicants will finally be accepted. Would one be considered for the APPFO Scheme if they did well in the assessment but not good enough to make it through to Flybe?
Also, I would only have 1 week to prepare for the assessment. Seeing as they are looking for high calibre cadets (wish i'm certain im not!) I assume anyone good enough to make the grade would not need adequate preparation in the first place and should be able to pass with flying colours!
Your right about the motivation though. I have bag fulls of it and have wanted nothing more than to be an airline pilot since I was 9 years old. Just the fact i failed the Etihad Airways Sponsored Program earlier in the year put a bit of a downer on things! And the fact there are so many more talented people out there (I went from a secondary school to a grammar school for 6th form and the difference in intellect is incredible!) makes me surrender the fact i am 'not the best of the best!' I suppose I should of ignored my Dad when he said 'No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better than you'
Secondly, £200 for the assessment is a lot of money considering apparently only 5% of applicants will finally be accepted. Would one be considered for the APPFO Scheme if they did well in the assessment but not good enough to make it through to Flybe?
Also, I would only have 1 week to prepare for the assessment. Seeing as they are looking for high calibre cadets (wish i'm certain im not!) I assume anyone good enough to make the grade would not need adequate preparation in the first place and should be able to pass with flying colours!
Your right about the motivation though. I have bag fulls of it and have wanted nothing more than to be an airline pilot since I was 9 years old. Just the fact i failed the Etihad Airways Sponsored Program earlier in the year put a bit of a downer on things! And the fact there are so many more talented people out there (I went from a secondary school to a grammar school for 6th form and the difference in intellect is incredible!) makes me surrender the fact i am 'not the best of the best!' I suppose I should of ignored my Dad when he said 'No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better than you'
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I would not worry about your aptitude. I am doing my A-Levels at the moment and I am no way near some of the top students in the year (100% every module) and I passed the normal aptitude test first time. I also failed the Etihad test, however that was significantly harder than the COMPASS tests.
I would say that you should go for it, if you don't you will be forever thinking "what if...".
I would say that you should go for it, if you don't you will be forever thinking "what if...".
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Lew747,
You said your mum has just finished paying off her mortgage 2 years ago and she is not too happy is she has to have a huge sum over her house again. Shock
Do you really really want to put her through the risk?
Tell me to keep my nose out of it but imagine you do get a job at the end of it without swimming too long in the pool. Do you really want her to spend another 5-10 years of her life waiting for you to pay her back slowly? when she could be enjoying life now?
You said your mum has just finished paying off her mortgage 2 years ago and she is not too happy is she has to have a huge sum over her house again. Shock
Do you really really want to put her through the risk?
Tell me to keep my nose out of it but imagine you do get a job at the end of it without swimming too long in the pool. Do you really want her to spend another 5-10 years of her life waiting for you to pay her back slowly? when she could be enjoying life now?
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That is really harsh. How can you make someone feel guilty for putting his mum through something ike that. Surely his mum will want the best for him and will be more than willing to put the money in even though it will be restricting for her!
I say that if your mum is willing to put the money up, it would be more insulting to her if you don't take it up, especially if this is your dream!
I say that if your mum is willing to put the money up, it would be more insulting to her if you don't take it up, especially if this is your dream!
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Lew, I think the point Simon was making was that there are often ways around a problem by communicating with the right people and taking a structured but flexible approach.
All of these "opportunities" work on the basis that there will inevitably be a large number of applications for every place eventually offered, and therefore there needs to be a significant degree of whittling down in order to arrive at a sensible and manageable shortlist. The type of "opportunity" being offered will also to some extent dictate the methodology employed in arriving at that shortlist. For example, the Etihad sponsored ab-initio programme is a highly subsidized programme, that requires a relatively small financial investment from the successful trainee, and therefore places a higher financial risk on the sponsor. Inevitably competition for this rare type of programme was always going to be high. This was further compounded by the global application of this opportunity. To that end the company treated the early stages as a competition that involved a lot of general knowledge and therefore luck on the part of the applicant. I am reliably informed that those attending enjoyed the day, and felt they got something positive from the experience, so it was certainly a worthwhile experience, and apart from the personal costs in travelling to the various centres, involved no financial contribution from the applicants. To that extent it was something of a lottery, and you should not consider yourself to have "failed" in any way, on that basis alone. Many of the people not selected to advance through this programme will go on to be successful via other routes. Even those charged with this programme would acknowledge that and absolutely agree. They would hope that the system for whittling down the huge numbers to a small final core, would be fair and have some scientific basis for attrition, but inevitably there would be a significant degree of luck involved, and no absolute guarantee that those selected would prove to be ultimately successful or indeed the best of those candidates attending.
Similarly with the Flybe schemes, there is a smaller element of sponsorship and a significant degree of risk on the part of the successful applicant. These people will require large sums of money to complete the course and the aquisition of those sums may well prove difficult or impossible in the short term. Without doubt there will be less of a "lottery" element in the selection process simply because of the financial risk involved. By way of example, if the £200 assessment fee causes problems, it would be but nothing compared to the £80,000 commitment that a successful application would involve. This would therefore be a part of the attrition process.
Where there is a burning desire to succeed, there is often a way to work around the obstacles. Sometimes this requires a mundane and patient approach such as committing to your education, or to a job that lets you save up the money for your aspirations. I appreciate this is easier to say than it is to put into practice. Particulary so when you are young, and everything seems to need to happen now! However you are right to be concerned about the "gamble", it is a huge one. If it is one you are determined to take, then common sense dictates that you gamble with your savings rather than with money you have borrowed. Your mum is also right to be wary. Like most parents they have the benefit of experience and are much more risk aware, even though they naturally would want the best for their children.
So in that sense Simon is right, you need to be aware that when these opportunities arise you have to be seen to be really wanting it. A bit of communication and a sensible approach will sometimes find a way around a problem. Nobody will feel they need to bend to accomodate your routine difficulties, simply because too many people also really want the opportunity, so they do not have to bend. On the other hand don't put yourself down. Your dad was right in that there is always somebody better than yourself, however that doesn't mean it is true today in this interview room. Likewise that may not be the opinion of the person interviewing you, if you convince them otherwise. Everybody who has ever suceeded at anything did so not necessarily because there wasn't somebody better, simply that they weren't there on that particular day.
All of these "opportunities" work on the basis that there will inevitably be a large number of applications for every place eventually offered, and therefore there needs to be a significant degree of whittling down in order to arrive at a sensible and manageable shortlist. The type of "opportunity" being offered will also to some extent dictate the methodology employed in arriving at that shortlist. For example, the Etihad sponsored ab-initio programme is a highly subsidized programme, that requires a relatively small financial investment from the successful trainee, and therefore places a higher financial risk on the sponsor. Inevitably competition for this rare type of programme was always going to be high. This was further compounded by the global application of this opportunity. To that end the company treated the early stages as a competition that involved a lot of general knowledge and therefore luck on the part of the applicant. I am reliably informed that those attending enjoyed the day, and felt they got something positive from the experience, so it was certainly a worthwhile experience, and apart from the personal costs in travelling to the various centres, involved no financial contribution from the applicants. To that extent it was something of a lottery, and you should not consider yourself to have "failed" in any way, on that basis alone. Many of the people not selected to advance through this programme will go on to be successful via other routes. Even those charged with this programme would acknowledge that and absolutely agree. They would hope that the system for whittling down the huge numbers to a small final core, would be fair and have some scientific basis for attrition, but inevitably there would be a significant degree of luck involved, and no absolute guarantee that those selected would prove to be ultimately successful or indeed the best of those candidates attending.
Similarly with the Flybe schemes, there is a smaller element of sponsorship and a significant degree of risk on the part of the successful applicant. These people will require large sums of money to complete the course and the aquisition of those sums may well prove difficult or impossible in the short term. Without doubt there will be less of a "lottery" element in the selection process simply because of the financial risk involved. By way of example, if the £200 assessment fee causes problems, it would be but nothing compared to the £80,000 commitment that a successful application would involve. This would therefore be a part of the attrition process.
Where there is a burning desire to succeed, there is often a way to work around the obstacles. Sometimes this requires a mundane and patient approach such as committing to your education, or to a job that lets you save up the money for your aspirations. I appreciate this is easier to say than it is to put into practice. Particulary so when you are young, and everything seems to need to happen now! However you are right to be concerned about the "gamble", it is a huge one. If it is one you are determined to take, then common sense dictates that you gamble with your savings rather than with money you have borrowed. Your mum is also right to be wary. Like most parents they have the benefit of experience and are much more risk aware, even though they naturally would want the best for their children.
So in that sense Simon is right, you need to be aware that when these opportunities arise you have to be seen to be really wanting it. A bit of communication and a sensible approach will sometimes find a way around a problem. Nobody will feel they need to bend to accomodate your routine difficulties, simply because too many people also really want the opportunity, so they do not have to bend. On the other hand don't put yourself down. Your dad was right in that there is always somebody better than yourself, however that doesn't mean it is true today in this interview room. Likewise that may not be the opinion of the person interviewing you, if you convince them otherwise. Everybody who has ever suceeded at anything did so not necessarily because there wasn't somebody better, simply that they weren't there on that particular day.
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Considering only 5% of applicants will get through, and based on FlapsFive assumption that there would be 270 applicants for the assessment, OAA are about to make £54 000 to give a large some of people feigned hope.
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Aside from the fact that no-one here has any desire to join the pharmaceutical industry, that OAA might very well be taking a few extra candidates for the assessment just to make a quick buck.
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markieboy,
with your reply, you are making my post seem more harsh than it really is.
A parent would do anything to make their child happy. And if their child wanted to be a pilot since they were little, knew how much it meant to them, then it doesn't matter if they have to fork out £80K or £800K - they will do anything and everything possible to raise that fee.
Therefore it is up to the recipient of the funds to ask themselves whether they have the heart to place this risk on the parent/parents that have done everything for their kids.
Imagine you lose your medical during training? Imagine there is no job at the end of it? What if the airline goes bust before you get unfrozen?
I know this will spark an almighty row but I could never trust the mental state of a pilot who put his parents/family under such risk to become a pilot. Of course if the integrated pilot's family could easily afford the cost and/or he has already saved the money himself, then no problem.
But think about it? What is the mental state of a person who gets his hard working parents in their 40s/50s to re-mortgage their house/get a loan just so they can fly?
Surprisingly, this is something BA can never answer.
with your reply, you are making my post seem more harsh than it really is.
A parent would do anything to make their child happy. And if their child wanted to be a pilot since they were little, knew how much it meant to them, then it doesn't matter if they have to fork out £80K or £800K - they will do anything and everything possible to raise that fee.
Therefore it is up to the recipient of the funds to ask themselves whether they have the heart to place this risk on the parent/parents that have done everything for their kids.
Imagine you lose your medical during training? Imagine there is no job at the end of it? What if the airline goes bust before you get unfrozen?
I know this will spark an almighty row but I could never trust the mental state of a pilot who put his parents/family under such risk to become a pilot. Of course if the integrated pilot's family could easily afford the cost and/or he has already saved the money himself, then no problem.
But think about it? What is the mental state of a person who gets his hard working parents in their 40s/50s to re-mortgage their house/get a loan just so they can fly?
Surprisingly, this is something BA can never answer.
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I doubt the £54,000 you quote is profit, since there will be costs involved. Nevertheless these schools are businesses, and flight training on your behalf or anybody elses is their business. If you don't want to buy what is on sale don't! If it doesn't represent value for money to you, then likewise walk away.
Offered as honest good advice, and it doesn't matter if you are buying pharmaceutical products, flight training assessments or lottery tickets.
Offered as honest good advice, and it doesn't matter if you are buying pharmaceutical products, flight training assessments or lottery tickets.
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A parent would do anything to make their child happy. And if their child wanted to be a pilot since they were little, knew how much it meant to them, then it doesn't matter if they have to fork out £80K or £800K - they will do anything and everything possible to raise that fee.
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Bealzebub,
thank you for your post. I was just making a (albeit a rather exaggerated) point to what Markieboy said:
Which to me is the most selfish thing you can say, especially as the guy in question has already stated that his mum is not too happy about the huge sum having just paid the mortgage.
thank you for your post. I was just making a (albeit a rather exaggerated) point to what Markieboy said:
I say that if your mum is willing to put the money up, it would be more insulting to her if you don't take it up, especially if this is your dream
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Well I think you have all just taken this out of proportion, I was just trying to give another perspective on something that you all seem clear cut about. Yes these FTOs are businesses and they need to make money, however with so few sponsorships around how can people become pilots without paying massive sums of money? The airforce is the only way I can see, however a 3 year degree and 2 years of training compared to 18 months that I know OAA offer seems to be the only way.
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For the most part they can't. To a certain degree that has always been the case.
Despite what you say about the airforce, even that route has been curtailed by many of these programmes. There is an interesting thread in Rumours & News that involves this subject.
Pilot training, and particularly these very low experience ab-initio programmes that are now becoming widespread, are a profit centre. This is not only true for the schools, but also for the participating airlines. Their longevity or otherwise may well be influenced by the media attention and public perception that is directed to these accidents and incidents.
In truth experience from the airforce and elsewhere is being squeezed out of contention, by the increasing prevalence of these intensive high cost programmes. Why pay for experience in the right hand seat, when you can get the right hand seat to pay you?
Despite what you say about the airforce, even that route has been curtailed by many of these programmes. There is an interesting thread in Rumours & News that involves this subject.
Pilot training, and particularly these very low experience ab-initio programmes that are now becoming widespread, are a profit centre. This is not only true for the schools, but also for the participating airlines. Their longevity or otherwise may well be influenced by the media attention and public perception that is directed to these accidents and incidents.
In truth experience from the airforce and elsewhere is being squeezed out of contention, by the increasing prevalence of these intensive high cost programmes. Why pay for experience in the right hand seat, when you can get the right hand seat to pay you?
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That is very true, but the problem is the lack of airlines sponsoring pilots through their training. There is only the MPL Flybe scheme at OAA (which has it's flaws) and Etihad, both of which are extremely competitive. Airlines obviously don't want to sponsor cadets as they know that they are getting very high standard low hour pilots fresh out of these FTOs. This has meant that 'wannabe' pilots with less money cannot afford to become pilots and realise their dream!