Career Advice from current pilots..?

[GAZ45]

Hi Guys,
Like many people who find themselves in this forum, i am a young aspiring commercial airline pilot. Since as long as i can remember it has been my dream to become a pilot, and my passion to do this has never weakened. I am now reaching the end of my university degree and starting to look at my options in transforming my dream into reality. (Looking at OAA to be precise.)

Now i know this post is like many others in this forum, but ever since i have been regularly reading through the many posts, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of negative views and attitude toward the profession from current airline pilots working in the industry.

At the moment i find myself in quite an anxious state of mind, knowing that almost all airline pilots in the sky today started off with enthusiasm and passion just like me, but now seem to have a very different opinion of the airline industry.

So i am asking the following simple questions to any airline pilot in this forum who is currently working, to try and get a clear informed view of the industry (Please could ONLY pilots respond to this post, just to enable me and any other interested reader get a genuine feel for the opinions of pilots who are there doing the job right now)

- Have you lost enthusiasm for your career, if so why?
- What genuine advice would you give to someone in my position, knowing what you know now about the industry?
- Is the profession different to how you expected?
- Would you say you are happy in your career, or given the chance to start again would you take a different route in your career?

I understand some people may think these questions are a little strange, but i want to get a realistic idea of the profession from those who are actually doing it. We all know it’s a hugely expensive and intense career route to take, with plenty of job insecurity and hard work. And we all know that whatever job you do there is always going to be times where you don’t like it. So please don’t mention these factors in answering. I guess what I’m looking for is an informed opinion of the profession from current airline pilots.

Thanks for your time
G

[BitMoreRightRudder]

- Have you lost enthusiasm for your career, if so why?

No, I still really enjoy what i do for a living (3 and a half years in the job). The initial shine wears off, that is to be expected in any line of work, but I can't imagine ever doing anything else.

What genuine advice would you give to someone in my position, knowing what you know now about the industry?

I really wouldn't look to start training for the time being. The argument that if you start now you will graduate into the start of the next boom holds no water - no-one knows how long it will take before things return to some form of normality. The chances are that when (if) we do get out of this mess the airline business will have changed for good and there will be fewer jobs available. I just think the future is far too uncertain to be chucking upwards of 60k at a job that probably won't exist.

Is the profession different to how you expected?

It's more or less the same as I thought. Some days are great, some days are . I fly shorthaul round europe with a big airline from a big airport, earn a decent wage, drive a car I can't really afford and try not to piss off too many hosties. Standard stuff really.

Would you say you are happy in your career, or given the chance to start again would you take a different route in your career?

Generally very happy. I wouldn't change much. But I am aware that the experienced guys I share a cockpit with, guys nearing retirement, have enjoyed a career and financial rewards that myself and my generation of pilots will never see.

I know things seem very pessimistic round here these days, but thats because things are generally pretty pessimistic in most airlines. Redundancy is a real threat for most pilots, pay cuts/freezes are looming or have been imposed at many operators. Experienced guys from XL, Zoom etc are still out of work. Meanwhile new entrants to the industry are being treated as though they are un-skilled temps working in an office, and are lucky if they earn so much as sector pay.

The party is over.

[mackey]

BMRR,

A captain told me, if you ever piss a hostie off, especially a number one , always, always check your cup of tea!!

Wise words I think!!

M.

[B2N2]

Dual rated, as in FAA and JAA, might be a smart move with the curent state of world affairs. You would be employable anywhere in the world and not just Europe.

[stilton]

GA,

First of all, good luck to you, I genuinely wish you the best.


I have been a professional Pilot for nearly 28 years now and can say without a doubt I would never have wanted to do anything else.


If you are really sure this is what you want I think one of the most important attributes in this industry is persistence, just keep plugging away, month after month, year after year.


This applies to going after jobs, and, once you have a good one give your employer your very best (while taking the best possible care of your health)


Do your utmost to get hired at the best possible operator you can find, not so important in the early jobs but vital in the long term career ones. They are worth the wait.


Your most important priority MUST always be taking care of your health.Without that you are out of the game.

[BetpumpS]

- Have you lost enthusiasm for your career, if so why?

Yes. Moved from flying the 742-F to pushing buttons on a 744. Moved for the "glamour" of flying passengers around the world to top destinations. Also the 20% pay increase was attractive too.

- What genuine advice would you give to someone in my position, knowing what you know now about the industry?

If you are aching to start training now, do it part-time. I would not advocate integrated even during boom times unless you have the funds for the training without getting into debt.

Before you move onto another airline job, always do research. NOT just regarding fleet size etc for the interview - I'm talking about values, T&Cs, what it is like flying for them.

- Is the profession different to how you expected?

Even back in 2000 I knew that the industry was very unstable in terms of job security. Father (retired) was made redundant 3 times in his career. Before his third redundancy, he knew the airline (Dan Air) was close to collapse in the near future. So he left. Months later, his mates got into BA!, whilst he went into the chartered airlines. So luck plays such a large part.

I will however say that I never expected the airline industry in terms of T&Cs to get this bad.

- Would you say you are happy in your career, or given the chance to start again would you take a different route in your career?

I would never have left my 742F job. I would have stayed there to gain my command. Or I would have gone to a short haul airline because I love flying, not pushing buttons. Long haul is good for guys in their 40s and 50s, not when you are in your mid twenties.

[Guttn]

-No, the enthusiasm is still here, though there is the odd day that you get in any line of work. Speaking for myself, I`m fortunate not to have very many of those days each year.

-Aviation vs good advice is a diffucult and sometimes touchy matter. You can ask 100 professioal pilots this questions and probably get 1000 (not 100) different pieces of advice - all depending on where they have been and where they are now in their career. My personal advice would be to go for it! ...provided... that this is what you really really really want to do with your life, and you know you can keep your goals in sight through many many setbacks and disappointments while jobhunting. Lots of companies and lots of backstabbers who claim to be colleagues, but on the otherhand there are still some very good companies around and some good colleagues who will try to help you out with good advice and point you in the right direction. Take care of them.

-The industry is about what I expected it to be. It`s far from the glamour you could expect if you`ve only been referred to the 1960s and 1970s T&Cs. For some people their goal is a fasttrack to a mid-range jet airliner, while others take the more scenic route. Whatever floats your boat really, as long as you don`t pay your way past everyone else. This keeps bringing everyones T&Cs down and it is destroying what used to be a very glamourous lifestyle.

-I am very happy with my career. Have taken the more scenic route and never paid for å job. Have flown as instructor (very demanding and rewarding, and should almost be mandatory), flown for a smaller company on cargoruns (very good hands on and real world ops experience, should also be mandatory), and I am now with a company where I am planning to eventually reitire (am now a mere 32). One of the reasons I chose to apply to this comapny is that it is not just your average push-button-fully-automated type of flying. The flying requires some old fashioned stick and rudder skills as well as a thorough knowledge of local conditions. T&Cs are competitive to major airlines when you sum it all up, and the company has a very nice attitude at all levels. If I had the chance of getting a greencard while I was doing the FAA tickets I would most likely have stayed there, mostly due to the insane way the conversion was done at the time. Talk about hardships. But again, persistance pays off.

BTW, there are several threads around the forum regarding these matters and you can probably get some input there as well.

All the best and happy landings

[G SXTY]

- Have you lost enthusiasm for your career, if so why?

Nope. I'm a little over a year in the job, so you'd expect me to be full of enthusiasm (and this being Pprune, give it an hour or so before someone comes on and tells me I don't know what I'm talking about). The novelty still hasn't worn off, and I could name you several colleagues who are 30-year veteran captains and still claim to love the job as much today as when they first started. I like to think that bodes well for the future.

- What genuine advice would you give to someone in my position, knowing what you know now about the industry?

Don't rush into it and limit your debt exposure. If you're finishing your degree I'm assuming you're in your early twenties? You have all the time in the world, and there is no point in racing to get qualified with the job market in its current state. Life experience and/or experience in other fields of work will make you a more rounded person and will do you no harm in a job interview. Regarding debt (and particularly if you're looking at OAA) bear in mind that the more debt you take on, the more you'll need to earn to pay it all back - especially if you end up having to fund a type rating as well. By working full time and training part-time (up to the CPL/IR) I managed to keep my debts down to a sensible level, meaning I can exist quite happily on a turboprop salary. If I had £70k+ to pay back, I'm not sure how I could manage.

- Is the profession different to how you expected?

Not really. Having been a wannabe for God-knows how many years, I didn't have much excuse for not knowing what I was getting into. If I had to pick one thing that that surprised me, it's that the testing / training doesn't get much easier once you have landed the job. I don't know anyone who enjoys the sim, and it's a ritual we have to go through every six months for the rest of our careers. Grizzled old captains can find it just as traumatic as a newbie FO such as myself, and are just as likely to have an off day. That apart, the job is pretty much as I'd expected (and dreamed).

- Would you say you are happy in your career, or given the chance to start again would you take a different route in your career?

Has Kermit got a green bum? Having done nearly fifteen years in an industry that bored me silly, and a decade of soul-destroying commuting to London, I have never been so happy. Of course it's not perfect; I'm not a morning person and after three days of earlies I'm dead on my feet. Time off has to be booked months in advance, there's the daily security nonsense, bad food and not enough time to eat it, etc etc. We fly around in weather that would have PPLs pulling the curtains and going back to bed, and just occasionally you might be paired up with someone who is a nightmare to fly with. For me though, the good days outnumber the bad ones by at least ten to one.

The caveat is that I've been lucky - lucky to get an airline job with 200 hours, and with a decent airline at that. I didn't pay for a type rating or uniform, and my company gives the impression they do actually care about their employees. Many people aren't so fortunate, and for a truly balanced picture of the industry, you would need their experiences as well.

All said and done, however - and you'll hear this over and over again - I can't imagine doing anything else.

[GAZ45]

Thankyou for all the great answers guys... and please keep them coming. I dont know about anyone else but during all your wannabe days before you became a pilot, you must of surely like me, been very confused with all the different routes you can take. The one in particular which people keep mentioning is doing some of the courses in your spare time to limit debt rather than getting a huge loan and crippling yourself with debt.

Does anyone have some sound advice on how to do this part time, ie. do you mean working and getting your PPL and hours in in your spare time? and if so, whats the best route to take to then allow me to make that final jump into the industy?

i must say, the current finances involved in going to OAA is pretty mental to be honest, in the end id be looking at 70k worth of debt, that would be ontop of my university debt too....for obvious reasons i need advice on what to do.....help me guys! Is there any way to get into this industry without signing up to a decade of debt??

Cheer, Ga

[GAZ45]

PS. GSxty...i read your post on your journey to becoming an airline pilot. was awesome, really great story shows how much hard work it all is but how much it pays off. hope i can get there one day... im just at that point where it all seems so far away :S

[JB007]

Here's my tuppence worth...

Have you lost enthusiasm for your career, if so why?

No, (nearly 6 years) was out of bed yesterday at 3am, left the house at 4am - not once did I think 'what the hell am I doing' - I was 100% looking forward to going to work. But I would agree, the shine does come off - I get a great deal of time off and I look forward to that too - it's a great balance.

What genuine advice would you give to someone in my position, knowing what you know now about the industry?

I would forget the OAA thing for a while. Sit tight, you are probably still young enough to leave it a good few years - Do what's right for you, not what you think an employer/or what people say are the best - if doing modular a chunk at a time is right then do it. Exactly what I did. There is a very quiet cull ongoing at the moment. What will be left for the low houred Frozen ATPL holder is unknown...

Is the profession different to how you expected?

I've been in the UK industry for nearly 20 years, started Ops/Crewing in my late teens! But i've seen a lot of change. I've also been very lucky, i've worked for some legendary airlines and in the 6 years flying i've experienced 3 years of turbo-prop, short/medium haul on a B757, long haul on a B767 and back to short/meduim haul on a B733/B738 - not planned, just how things work out!

Would you say you are happy in your career, or given the chance to start again would you take a different route in your career?

Wouldn't change a thing!!!! Lots more still to come...