Experience of CTC
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Experience of CTC
I am currently weighing up where to put my application; CTC or OAA.
OAA seems to carry the name, but for value for money my instinct tells me to go for CTC. The problems I have lie with the lack of information that CTC give. so if anyone has experienced either the assessment process and/or the training itself I really want to know what it is like. I know the basics e.g first 12 months in NZ, then Bournemouth etc. but if anyone can enlighten me on the following....
Any details of the assessment process
Does CTC carry out all ground training at once in the way that Oxford does? Do all exams take place in one go???!!! (I ask that because they say you fly back to england for the ATPL's).
Any general information/opinion.
Many Thanks to all who reply
Jacob
OAA seems to carry the name, but for value for money my instinct tells me to go for CTC. The problems I have lie with the lack of information that CTC give. so if anyone has experienced either the assessment process and/or the training itself I really want to know what it is like. I know the basics e.g first 12 months in NZ, then Bournemouth etc. but if anyone can enlighten me on the following....
Any details of the assessment process
Does CTC carry out all ground training at once in the way that Oxford does? Do all exams take place in one go???!!! (I ask that because they say you fly back to england for the ATPL's).
Any general information/opinion.
Many Thanks to all who reply
Jacob
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Try the CTC Wings thread in the Interview and Sponsorship forum. It's still on the first page I believe.
The selection process is stricter for CTC as far as I'm aware, Oxford has around a 40% pass rate, CTC has around a 4% pass rate but we were told that in 2008, just shy of 10,000 applied for around 168 places. If you are going on the basis of a name, then CTC has just a good a name in the industry, some say better, some say worse than Oxford, that's just a matter of opinion but not many would disagree that CTC is a respected name.
4 stages to the assessment process can be found on their website, best to check there and the CTC Wings thread for more details.
You'll do 7 months in Hamilton, New Zealand. You'll start with 4 weeks of groundschool (used to be difference last month, you could combine flying and PPL groundschool but a CAA audit has canned that) where you won't be flying. After that you start your basic foundation course of flying which lasts for 14-15 weeks (previously 17 weeks) at which point you'll graduate on to the Wings Course on successful completion of either the PPL or the Progress Test set by CTC.
You'll carry on with the syllabus for the remainder of the 7 months whilst studying for the ATPLs. Depending on whether you're integrated / modular, you'll have lectures to attend (integrated) or you can self study (modular).
After the 7 months, you fly back to the UK to sit some of the exams at Bristol.
You then fly back to NZ for 4-5 months where you study the remainder of the ATPLs and then sit them at the end of the 4-5 month stint. You'll still be carrying on with the flying syllabus too.
As for finance, BBVA appear to be a partner bank now. Apparently, they'll assess each case on its individual basis...no mention of unsecured or secured, best to check with CTC.
The selection process is stricter for CTC as far as I'm aware, Oxford has around a 40% pass rate, CTC has around a 4% pass rate but we were told that in 2008, just shy of 10,000 applied for around 168 places. If you are going on the basis of a name, then CTC has just a good a name in the industry, some say better, some say worse than Oxford, that's just a matter of opinion but not many would disagree that CTC is a respected name.
4 stages to the assessment process can be found on their website, best to check there and the CTC Wings thread for more details.
You'll do 7 months in Hamilton, New Zealand. You'll start with 4 weeks of groundschool (used to be difference last month, you could combine flying and PPL groundschool but a CAA audit has canned that) where you won't be flying. After that you start your basic foundation course of flying which lasts for 14-15 weeks (previously 17 weeks) at which point you'll graduate on to the Wings Course on successful completion of either the PPL or the Progress Test set by CTC.
You'll carry on with the syllabus for the remainder of the 7 months whilst studying for the ATPLs. Depending on whether you're integrated / modular, you'll have lectures to attend (integrated) or you can self study (modular).
After the 7 months, you fly back to the UK to sit some of the exams at Bristol.
You then fly back to NZ for 4-5 months where you study the remainder of the ATPLs and then sit them at the end of the 4-5 month stint. You'll still be carrying on with the flying syllabus too.
As for finance, BBVA appear to be a partner bank now. Apparently, they'll assess each case on its individual basis...no mention of unsecured or secured, best to check with CTC.
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Thanks very much. good info in there!
Is some of it more applicable to ctc wings 'cadet' as opposed to 'icp' (self sponsored) such as the stats you mentioned?
Is some of it more applicable to ctc wings 'cadet' as opposed to 'icp' (self sponsored) such as the stats you mentioned?
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no no!
I don't want to be misunderstood! I'm definately not going to go for an FTO for its name. people always seem to say Oxford first, but that's what i'm trying to avoid.
I need to go to more open days to be sure, but I have a better feeling about CTC for my own personal preference/learning style etc. I just find that there is very little information contained on the website and with a lack of brochure etc. from CTC which makes things a little harder. this is especially true of the iCP self sponsored route.
I don't want to be misunderstood! I'm definately not going to go for an FTO for its name. people always seem to say Oxford first, but that's what i'm trying to avoid.
I need to go to more open days to be sure, but I have a better feeling about CTC for my own personal preference/learning style etc. I just find that there is very little information contained on the website and with a lack of brochure etc. from CTC which makes things a little harder. this is especially true of the iCP self sponsored route.
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The 40% figure for Oxford is for getting through the application process and onto the course. CTC has a 4% applicant success rate, so it is much harder to get into CTC than Oxford.
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OAA v CTC
Its not an easy choice as there will be several factors on both sides.
From previous posts you might see that I am not in favour of CTC, as they have great hype but produce less than advertised these days.
Which could be said for all schools.
Now CTC type rate their students to suit their client requirements which is a definite plus but the negative side is that you only receive £1000 per month whilst working for the client airline, this lasts for 6 months which is the length of commitment that the airline has to you, after which you could well be back on the street, circa Easyjet and Monarch in 2008.
OAA offer help with job placement after completion of the course but there are no job guarantees, recent agreement with Jet2 and some other carriers will help once the market picks up.
As to standards of ground training, they are certainly on a par, but i consider the OAA product to have the edge as there is more availability of 1 to 1 training from the instructors, and there is less stress in the course as in CTC they can chop you for not reaching their level of performance, where as OAA are far more realistic in their approach.
Basic flying training is very much up to the student and their trainers, which is where the selection procedure weeds out the men from the boys.
You have to achieve the high standards of the JAA tests, and you can be taught the basics very well by either establishment, but in the end its up to you.
Instrument rating training, OAA has the edge on the type of flying (UK) and the overall experience of its instructors, some of whom have been teaching students for several years at OAA (Longer than CTC has been around)
Both establishments offer very good MCC and JOC courses with current and retired airline captains.
Now possibly a clincher is that OAA offer a skills net right up to the CPL skills test, where if you fail any phase and leave, you can receive back the cost of all monies paid out, with the exception of your room and food charges.
The selection from each company is conducted in phases but at OAA it is completed in 2 consecutive days and the result is given in the debrief on day two.
Yes CTC average 4-6% pass rate, where as OAA have a 37-45% first time pass rate at selection.
This is because of the difference in requiements :-
CTC base recruitment upon their client airline requirements currently very low.
OAA offer a product with no job guarantee at the end of the course, but have client airlines who will recruit from them when the market improves.
Current main recruiter of OAA students are Ryanair but you must also pay for your own type rating.
Finally the current market is at an all time low for student recruitment and neither CTC or OAA are placing the majority of their students.
It may be that after you finish your training the market will have changed in the 2-3 years from now.
The choice is yours
Its not an easy choice as there will be several factors on both sides.
From previous posts you might see that I am not in favour of CTC, as they have great hype but produce less than advertised these days.
Which could be said for all schools.
Now CTC type rate their students to suit their client requirements which is a definite plus but the negative side is that you only receive £1000 per month whilst working for the client airline, this lasts for 6 months which is the length of commitment that the airline has to you, after which you could well be back on the street, circa Easyjet and Monarch in 2008.
OAA offer help with job placement after completion of the course but there are no job guarantees, recent agreement with Jet2 and some other carriers will help once the market picks up.
As to standards of ground training, they are certainly on a par, but i consider the OAA product to have the edge as there is more availability of 1 to 1 training from the instructors, and there is less stress in the course as in CTC they can chop you for not reaching their level of performance, where as OAA are far more realistic in their approach.
Basic flying training is very much up to the student and their trainers, which is where the selection procedure weeds out the men from the boys.
You have to achieve the high standards of the JAA tests, and you can be taught the basics very well by either establishment, but in the end its up to you.
Instrument rating training, OAA has the edge on the type of flying (UK) and the overall experience of its instructors, some of whom have been teaching students for several years at OAA (Longer than CTC has been around)
Both establishments offer very good MCC and JOC courses with current and retired airline captains.
Now possibly a clincher is that OAA offer a skills net right up to the CPL skills test, where if you fail any phase and leave, you can receive back the cost of all monies paid out, with the exception of your room and food charges.
The selection from each company is conducted in phases but at OAA it is completed in 2 consecutive days and the result is given in the debrief on day two.
Yes CTC average 4-6% pass rate, where as OAA have a 37-45% first time pass rate at selection.
This is because of the difference in requiements :-
CTC base recruitment upon their client airline requirements currently very low.
OAA offer a product with no job guarantee at the end of the course, but have client airlines who will recruit from them when the market improves.
Current main recruiter of OAA students are Ryanair but you must also pay for your own type rating.
Finally the current market is at an all time low for student recruitment and neither CTC or OAA are placing the majority of their students.
It may be that after you finish your training the market will have changed in the 2-3 years from now.
The choice is yours
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Day_Dreamer
Practically every point you make is debatable at best - hardly well researched. You failed to mention that for those having gone down the CTC route before, they did not have to put their parents' house on the line to secure finance.
THAT was the clincher in the old days.
Practically every point you make is debatable at best - hardly well researched. You failed to mention that for those having gone down the CTC route before, they did not have to put their parents' house on the line to secure finance.
THAT was the clincher in the old days.
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CTC
All this thousand quid a month nit picking needs to be put into perspective. No TR, base or line training costs for the prospect. A four grand lump sum when you complete probation and for successful cadets a five year refund period on the bond.
Due to personal and recent experience of the CTC Wings ATP scheme, I couldn't recommend CTC highly enough. A thoroughly positive experience from selection through placement and on. No guarantees, just square dealing - you do your best and they'll do theirs.
Due to personal and recent experience of the CTC Wings ATP scheme, I couldn't recommend CTC highly enough. A thoroughly positive experience from selection through placement and on. No guarantees, just square dealing - you do your best and they'll do theirs.
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CTC base recruitment upon their client airline requirements currently very low.
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but again....surely that 4% only applies to the Wings cadet and not CTC self sponsored???
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I wouldn't get too wound up over Day_Dreamer he crops up on most CTC/OAA threads towing this OAA marketing propaganda.
Unless you have some aversion to going over to NZ for an extended period(Family commitments etc), then the choice between OAA and CTC wings is a no brainier, in favour of CTC. Granted they have lost their edge with the unsecured funding being pulled, but in employment terms I don't see any comparison.
I went through both selections successfully last summer and CTCs is certainly tougher, although I must say not as tough as some make out on here.
From what I have heard the CTC ICP selection is very similar to Wings except its not as comprehensive and the bar is lowered in terms of pass marks etc.
ICP and OAA integrated are probably more comparable products. If I had the choice between those two I might err on the side of Oxford as ICP is so far untested. The ICP selection success rate I'm sure is a fair bit higher that the wings one.
In the end I didn't have the stomach for a debt this size and decided to go modular, but worth doing both selections anyway if your considering it.
Good luck.
Unless you have some aversion to going over to NZ for an extended period(Family commitments etc), then the choice between OAA and CTC wings is a no brainier, in favour of CTC. Granted they have lost their edge with the unsecured funding being pulled, but in employment terms I don't see any comparison.
I went through both selections successfully last summer and CTCs is certainly tougher, although I must say not as tough as some make out on here.
From what I have heard the CTC ICP selection is very similar to Wings except its not as comprehensive and the bar is lowered in terms of pass marks etc.
ICP and OAA integrated are probably more comparable products. If I had the choice between those two I might err on the side of Oxford as ICP is so far untested. The ICP selection success rate I'm sure is a fair bit higher that the wings one.
In the end I didn't have the stomach for a debt this size and decided to go modular, but worth doing both selections anyway if your considering it.
Good luck.
Last edited by James D; 12th Feb 2009 at 12:56.
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Thanks James, appreciated.
My gut feeling says CTC, but my head says Oxford. The 'skills security' plan is very persuasive for peace of mind.
Jacob
P.s. How long has your modular taken, how have you done it? I don't rule it out, but discipline wise i feel i may be better off under integrated conditions.
My gut feeling says CTC, but my head says Oxford. The 'skills security' plan is very persuasive for peace of mind.
Jacob
P.s. How long has your modular taken, how have you done it? I don't rule it out, but discipline wise i feel i may be better off under integrated conditions.
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Originally Posted by Day_Dreamer
...there is less stress in the course as in CTC they can chop you for not reaching their level of performance, where as OAA are far more realistic in their approach
Not really sure why the skills security plan is so attractive...do you go on to a course either expecting to fail / do badly or end up wanting to quit? Sounds like what the assessors are weeding out in the selection process to me.
CTC have a brochure; you could try emailing them and asking for it - they have copies at their bases which you can pick up if you're at selection.
No course is perfect in every way, at the end of the day, the decision is down to the individual and you'll only know whether you made the right decision at the end.
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jakelowe444
Well reasoned arguements and debate. But make a choice that's right for you, not what someone else tells you. If that means hanging out at the school all day and just talking to different people then it is a good investment.
When I went through the process I kind of got trapped in the 'paralysis of analysis' and found myself evaluating the quality of the coffee and every other minutia! I had to snap out of it and just make a decision.
In the end, I was happy with the choice I made between the two schools you mention, it worked for me. A very good friend of mine went through the other school and had a great time also.
Toss a coin, if it comes up with the choice you wanted it to that's great! And if you don't like that choice then it is a sign of what your heart really wants!
Good luck and enjoy it wherever you go! DM.
Well reasoned arguements and debate. But make a choice that's right for you, not what someone else tells you. If that means hanging out at the school all day and just talking to different people then it is a good investment.
When I went through the process I kind of got trapped in the 'paralysis of analysis' and found myself evaluating the quality of the coffee and every other minutia! I had to snap out of it and just make a decision.
In the end, I was happy with the choice I made between the two schools you mention, it worked for me. A very good friend of mine went through the other school and had a great time also.
Toss a coin, if it comes up with the choice you wanted it to that's great! And if you don't like that choice then it is a sign of what your heart really wants!
Good luck and enjoy it wherever you go! DM.
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Whilst the stress of passing and been upto CTC standard is high, CTC do try their hardest to get you to that standard... they aren't about to chop you for failing a test once, more like failing and then failing to do what is required to make sure you are upto the standard.
When it comes to the type rating, the airline pays for that type rating, it isn't financially viable for them to pay for a cadets type rating and then chop you at the end because they don't want you. The recent easyjet happenings weren't what easyjet wanted to do but had to because they just couldn't afford to keep them on, these cadets found jobs with other airlines with and without the help of CTC at Ezy swiss, aer lingus, gulf air etc.
When it comes to choosing an FTO make sure you visit before you make up your mind, CTC do have visiter days where they show you around the place and go through everything that they do as do Oxford and other FTOs. It is a lot of money to part with so be sure.
When it comes to the type rating, the airline pays for that type rating, it isn't financially viable for them to pay for a cadets type rating and then chop you at the end because they don't want you. The recent easyjet happenings weren't what easyjet wanted to do but had to because they just couldn't afford to keep them on, these cadets found jobs with other airlines with and without the help of CTC at Ezy swiss, aer lingus, gulf air etc.
When it comes to choosing an FTO make sure you visit before you make up your mind, CTC do have visiter days where they show you around the place and go through everything that they do as do Oxford and other FTOs. It is a lot of money to part with so be sure.
