CPL Exams.

[Whirlygig]

I believe Atlantic Flight Training do the CPL(A) groundschool course.

Standards Document 30

Standards Document 31

In order to be paid under the JAA system, you must a minimum of a CPL. I doubt you would need an Instrument Rating.

Get the medical, take the 9 CPL theoretical exams, take the CPL single engine checkride. Then take a FI (A) course. Is this correct??

Yup!

Cheers

Whirls

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by granlistillo

Very informative thread. Maybe you guys can help me out.

I understand limitations of just a CPL. Currently flying regional jets in the US, and I am looking at teaching at a specific FTO that is mostly PPL stuff, not looking at flying at any European airlines. I have the EU residency, but not the JAA tickets.

Is there any distance learning CPL course on the market? If not would a ground school sign off from an DL/ATPL ground school suffice to sit the CPL exams?

Cranfield Aviation Training Services (CATS) at Cranfield
Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry

Both do distance learning groundschool with a short (approx. 3 weeks for all 9 exams) classroom requirement.

Must an FI (A) have an IR if he only teaches PPL level (or commercial level for that matter)?

No - they just obviously can't teach for IR.

Is my understanding correct that instructing with a JAA PPL and getting paid is not possible under current JAA rules? Are there any loopholes?

In the UK the only loophole I know of is that you can teach on microlights (not the same as US Ultralights, closer to the US LSA category) and be paid without holding a commercial licence.

From what I can see from the forums, and my feeble attempts reading the LASORS .pdf (which confuses the heck out of me) this is my understanding:

Get the medical, take the 9 CPL theoretical exams, take the CPL single engine checkride. Then take a FI (A) course. Is this correct??

I'd double-check with the CAA / local authority whether you are exempted from the requirements to take the approved CPL course. But, I think that you are, so yes.

G

[granlistillo]

Genghis/Whirlygig,
Thanks so much, that really clarifies things for me.

[Shunter]

There are changes in the pipeline for PPL instructors. They're based on the premise that you only need hold the license you are instructing for, meaning in the future a PPL/FI would be able to be paid for teaching PPLs. Obviously he couldn't then go on to teach CPLs (which pays better, apparently), without having a CPL.

[granlistillo]

I've read that rumor. Or is it more than a rumbling from EASA? Any official word on when?
Obviously in my case would make things a lot easier.

[YakAngel]

The runmour on PPL/FI is that it will only be to the new "Leisure License standard".
i.e. You can get a license after 20 hours tuition. Yes, REALLY!!!!!!! And that's the only type of PPL the PPL/FI will eb able to instruct.

However, I am told that if the candidate does not get their license in 20 hours, the PPL/FI has to hand over to a "proper" FI.....

Just for reference, you can also currently do the following route:

Class 2 medical, CPL Writtens then the FI course.
You can then instruct in fulness, but NOT get paid for it.

If you want to get paid as well, then you need a Class 1 medical, AND need to have completed and passed the CPL flying trainig in addition to the CPL writtens.

I'm now going down the CPL writtens -> FI route after having been doing Class Rating Instructor work (unpaid) for a year.... wonder if I'll get any time "off" the FI course for having already done the CRI (and over 200 hours instruction).... (I assume not!!!)

[munday17]

Hi you mentioned that there is a groundschool that does the CPL exams in bournemouth, would you mind telling me the name of the school.

Cheers
Gregg.

[Lightning Mate]

Is there any distance learning CPL course on the market?

Yes - try Ground Training Services at Bournemouth Airport. They have been doing it for years.

[BillieBob]

I've read that rumor. Or is it more than a rumbling from EASA? Any official word on when?

It is not a rumour, it is fact. In the UK, assuming that the amended Aircrew Regulation is published in time, it will be law from 1 July 2012, other EU member states will have different implementation dates.

The runmour on PPL/FI is that it will only be to the new "Leisure License standard".

That is incorrect.

However, I am told that if the candidate does not get their license in 20 hours, the PPL/FI has to hand over to a "proper" FI.....

That is also incorrect, on two counts. The minimum requirement for issue of a LAPL(A) is 30 hours of dual instruction and for an LAPL(H) it is 40 hours.

FCL.205.A PPL(A) - Privileges

(a) The privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act without remuneration as PIC or co-pilot of aeroplanes or TMGs engaged in non-commercial operations.

(b) Notwithstanding the paragraph above, the holder of a PPL(A) with instructor or examiner privileges may receive remuneration for:

(1) the provision of flight instruction for the LAPL(A) or PPL(A)
(2) the conduct of skill tests and proficiency checks for these licences
(3) the ratings and certificates attached to these licences

wonder if I'll get any time "off" the FI course for having already done the CRI

You should be credited with the Teaching and Learning element of the course (25 hours) [see JAR-FCL 1.310(c) or FCL.915(c)(1) if the course is conducted under EASA.]

[sp6]

I did the 9 CPL exams with Atlantic, got a CPL & FIC and am now contemplating having to do all 14 ATPL's again. I originally only thought I'd be PPL instructing, but events proved that I could have done a lot more if I'd chosen the ATPL.

The CPL theoretical was a bad mistake because:

1. The question bank is the same - ie just as hard.
2. I effectively did 11 of the 14 ATPL's, not just 9
3. I had to go to Gatwick for the exams (someone else made this point too)

It ended up a very bad mistake because:

In 2007 I was offered a TP job but had to decline because I didn't have an IR. To get an IR, I would have had to sit the 6 IR exams and then the MEIR, by which time the job had gone. If I'd had the (still current) ATPL's, I could have taken the MEIR (ok - assuming I'd pass it) in 4-5 weeks and got the TP job.

Now I want to progress to CPL/MEIR instructing and possibly a TP job, but I've got to go all the way back to the beginning, despite having a CPL and 000's of hours P1.

The only way the CPL makes sense is if you are totally positive you will only ever teach PPL. and you never know what the future holds!

[NQWhy]

Just looking at the CAA CPL examinations website and it seems that the CPL now, under the "New Syllabus" has got some extra papers in it. Can anyone shed any light on this?? Is it the same material spread into more papers or an increase in the amount of material (thereby making the CPL even less appealing!!)?

[roger henshaw]

The CPL exams have increased to 13 but the amount of material is more or less the same as it was, it is more expensive now because of the 4 extra exam fees but also helpful in that each subject now has its own exam, previously for example Perf and Planning included Performance, Mass & Balance and Flight Planning. The workload overall is still quite a lot less than the ATPL. If you want to research the content in detail go to the CAA website and look for the Theoretical Knowledge and Learning Objectives link to the old JAA website, The 2009 LOs are the basis of the new syllabus.