Banks other than HSBC
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<<That's the spirit, George. If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.>>
I have around 1500 medium jet hours and I am worried about whether I will still be employed soon. My personal recommendation like most other people would be to hang on for a while. What is the rush? You have a lifetime's flying ahead of you. Just be patient for your own sake. If the cycle period is around 10 years, I would think wait for the upswing before thinking about training.
Just my thoughts, others like WWW have a much greater level of understanding of the industry than me.
I have around 1500 medium jet hours and I am worried about whether I will still be employed soon. My personal recommendation like most other people would be to hang on for a while. What is the rush? You have a lifetime's flying ahead of you. Just be patient for your own sake. If the cycle period is around 10 years, I would think wait for the upswing before thinking about training.
Just my thoughts, others like WWW have a much greater level of understanding of the industry than me.
Last edited by tom775257; 20th Oct 2008 at 13:09.
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rick0 you sum it up sooooo nicely - "and yeah I don't know what the industry analyst’s are saying", well they are not saying wonderful things!
I don't see some vague "airlines are going to go bust in the next few months" from a airline boss as 'industry analysis'. I mean indepth stuff, forecasts, looking at every influencing factor etc.
I, as of yet, have not come up with any of the above. Perhaps a few quotes from aviation consultant firms but that's about it.
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Airline industry association IATA has said it still expects industry losses in 2009 of $4.1 billion next year as the global economy slows down.
IATA has forecast a loss of $5.2 billion for 2008 as a result of higher fuel prices and falling demand.
Although fuel prices have dropped since the high of $147 a barrel in July, IATA said it was sticking to its forecast for 2009 as revenues are under pressure due to the weakening global economy.
“The industry is highly geared to the economic cycle and has always suffered substantial losses in previous economic downturns,” said an IATA spokesman.
“As a result, and despite fuel costs now likely to be much lower than expected at the time of this forecast, our forecast for further losses amounting to $4.1 billion in 2009 still looks a plausible outcome.”
IATA has forecast a loss of $5.2 billion for 2008 as a result of higher fuel prices and falling demand.
Although fuel prices have dropped since the high of $147 a barrel in July, IATA said it was sticking to its forecast for 2009 as revenues are under pressure due to the weakening global economy.
“The industry is highly geared to the economic cycle and has always suffered substantial losses in previous economic downturns,” said an IATA spokesman.
“As a result, and despite fuel costs now likely to be much lower than expected at the time of this forecast, our forecast for further losses amounting to $4.1 billion in 2009 still looks a plausible outcome.”
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Told you you wouldn't like in Samee.... but I guarantee you if you go down the route you are taking you will look back in 12 months and know that what I have told you is very true.
So you have taken "a year out".... sorry but you are still bloody naive.... we have all been there.... ask yourself how long have you paid a mortgage for? How much have you put in your pension pot? How are you going to send you kids to private school? Paying back c100k over 10 years will kind of cramp your style.... but I am sure you know that.... anyone who quotes the years they have been working with a "decimal point" (1.5!!) has soooo much life experience.
So how much have you saved towards the cost of an integrated course in your year off??.... if you are borrowing 70k clearly not a a lot.
SMELL THE COFFEE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE YOU MUPPET!!!! LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU...... THERE WILL BE NO JOBS IN 12-18 MONTHS!!!!!
Minimise the cost and the risk..... work + save plus help out at your local flying club at weekends etc to get your flying kicks.... you are VERY YOUNG AND HAVE LOADS OF TIME! You could wait 5 years and go integrated in your mid-twenties and still be piss board of commercial flying by your mid-thirties!
You have been warned but I fear it is your parents who will bear the consequences if you remortgage their house.....
Why don't you get your parents to sit down with you and read this thread and see what they think..... or are you scared that a reality check would worry them???
So you have taken "a year out".... sorry but you are still bloody naive.... we have all been there.... ask yourself how long have you paid a mortgage for? How much have you put in your pension pot? How are you going to send you kids to private school? Paying back c100k over 10 years will kind of cramp your style.... but I am sure you know that.... anyone who quotes the years they have been working with a "decimal point" (1.5!!) has soooo much life experience.
So how much have you saved towards the cost of an integrated course in your year off??.... if you are borrowing 70k clearly not a a lot.
SMELL THE COFFEE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE YOU MUPPET!!!! LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU...... THERE WILL BE NO JOBS IN 12-18 MONTHS!!!!!
Minimise the cost and the risk..... work + save plus help out at your local flying club at weekends etc to get your flying kicks.... you are VERY YOUNG AND HAVE LOADS OF TIME! You could wait 5 years and go integrated in your mid-twenties and still be piss board of commercial flying by your mid-thirties!
You have been warned but I fear it is your parents who will bear the consequences if you remortgage their house.....
Why don't you get your parents to sit down with you and read this thread and see what they think..... or are you scared that a reality check would worry them???
Last edited by Grass strip basher; 20th Oct 2008 at 15:31.
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rick0
Analysts are all typically predicting that all airlines will be reducing capacity and maintaining a close watch on costs going into a recession.
What are you looking for - someone to say definitively that their airline will not survive, as you certainly will not find anyone saying that at all. You will only see that days before the airline fails, in a similar manner to XL.
Analysts are all typically predicting that all airlines will be reducing capacity and maintaining a close watch on costs going into a recession.
What are you looking for - someone to say definitively that their airline will not survive, as you certainly will not find anyone saying that at all. You will only see that days before the airline fails, in a similar manner to XL.
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Bless his little cotton socks, he's 19 years old, done a years work, a whole 12 months and he knows it all.
Awww, it kind of reminds me of when I was young, albeit I didn't have a 100K mill stone round my neck and my prospects were good. Fortunately I mostly knew when to take good advice when it was given to me.
I blame this childcentric culture for that encouraging todays children that their opinions actually count for something before they've even done anything of any significance in this world to warrant them having an opinion, gawd help us.
Get a grip son, use your Bilberry or Ipod to read the Telegraph or Times on-line rather than fannying around on those social networking sites et al and wake up to the real world.
Awww, it kind of reminds me of when I was young, albeit I didn't have a 100K mill stone round my neck and my prospects were good. Fortunately I mostly knew when to take good advice when it was given to me.
I blame this childcentric culture for that encouraging todays children that their opinions actually count for something before they've even done anything of any significance in this world to warrant them having an opinion, gawd help us.
Get a grip son, use your Bilberry or Ipod to read the Telegraph or Times on-line rather than fannying around on those social networking sites et al and wake up to the real world.
Hovering AND talking
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Samee, as a rough guide, a 25 year mortgage of £70,000 would cost about £470 a month. The same amount over 10 years would £790. Your take home pay on a salary of £22k would be about £1,400 a month. Added to this is the fact that your parents would have to be paying the mortgage whilst you're training i.e. for 18 months before you start earning, and maybe even longer if you cann't find a job after qualifying. You'll be living at home for an awfully long time!
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
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on 70,000 I would think that the repayments is more than that, I reckon it would be closer to 1K....
prob £980 per month!!!
(((quote from HSBC
65,000 for 9 years pay back = £920 (2% above base rate interest
73,000 for 9 years pay back is £1,020 )))
now subtract that from your taking's home and you'll probably be left with about £500 to do you all month and if you are lucky enough to get a job then subtract you rent from that again, The rest is then up to you for the whole month,,, I advise food!!!
Start cutting them offers outa the back of the local paper!!!!!
work some more, thats what im doing!!!!! and dont spend save every penny and it will reduce them payments significantly.... your only bloody 19./.... I fell sorry for the people that want to do it and age is a bearing factor... they are the real people who should reali think about what to do!!!!! NOT YOU.
prob £980 per month!!!
(((quote from HSBC
65,000 for 9 years pay back = £920 (2% above base rate interest
73,000 for 9 years pay back is £1,020 )))
now subtract that from your taking's home and you'll probably be left with about £500 to do you all month and if you are lucky enough to get a job then subtract you rent from that again, The rest is then up to you for the whole month,,, I advise food!!!
Start cutting them offers outa the back of the local paper!!!!!
work some more, thats what im doing!!!!! and dont spend save every penny and it will reduce them payments significantly.... your only bloody 19./.... I fell sorry for the people that want to do it and age is a bearing factor... they are the real people who should reali think about what to do!!!!! NOT YOU.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Nah,
Don't listen to all us old folk who've been working for over 20 years.
What would we know? After all, our Flight Ops Directors are idiots so when they say commands will be slower and hiring paused, they're having a laugh.
Yeah, crack on, mortgage your parents house to the hilt and get stuck in.
Get amongst it. I know BA, Cathay and Virgin Atlantic will be waiting for you to finish so they can fight amongst themselves to offer you a direct entry fast track command slot.
Don't listen to all us old folk who've been working for over 20 years.
What would we know? After all, our Flight Ops Directors are idiots so when they say commands will be slower and hiring paused, they're having a laugh.
Yeah, crack on, mortgage your parents house to the hilt and get stuck in.
Get amongst it. I know BA, Cathay and Virgin Atlantic will be waiting for you to finish so they can fight amongst themselves to offer you a direct entry fast track command slot.
Hovering AND talking
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The figures were obtained from my own mortgage provider who is a building society; wonder why I didn't go to HSBC?
If Mr. & Mrs. Samee go to their existing mortgage provider they should get a reasonable deal as I quoted. However, it is still a lot to expect a) ones parents to pay and b) repay on any salary befitting a 21 year old!
Cheers
Whirls
If Mr. & Mrs. Samee go to their existing mortgage provider they should get a reasonable deal as I quoted. However, it is still a lot to expect a) ones parents to pay and b) repay on any salary befitting a 21 year old!
Cheers
Whirls
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I just don't see at 19 what the rush is, especially in this current climate. You can easily afford to wait until you are 23, save the money and still by flying by the time you are 25, which will still leave you in a good place on any seniority list. I didn't start my training until 30, and I'll be 34 by the time I'm finished, but that still leaves 31 years until I have to retire.
If you really really must start, I cannot emphasise enough that Integrated is not the way to go in this current climate. If shop A can sell you a tin of baked beans for 50p, and shop B is selling exactly the same tin of beans for £1, which would you buy ?.
All this talk about X airline only taking integrated is nonsense. You have to ask what are my chances of actually getting a job with that airline anyway ?. There are plenty more airlines that are happy to take modular trained pilots that you can apply to, and if you really have to work for X airlines, then just apply later when you have worked elsewhere for a while as they will still take you on.
Just think very long and very hard about what you are getting into. You could take a £25K unsecured loan that will cost a little over £300/month for 8 years, and that will get you the CPL/ME/IR done in the UK and some of the hour building if you went overseas, so if you worked for a couple of years you could save the rest for the PPL and ATPL ground school and not have to worry about having to pay out over £1k/month before you even get out of bed for the next 10 years and you also won't have risked your parents home.
You could always do full time modular if you so wished, but at least it still gives you the option to stop training at any stage.
If you really really must start, I cannot emphasise enough that Integrated is not the way to go in this current climate. If shop A can sell you a tin of baked beans for 50p, and shop B is selling exactly the same tin of beans for £1, which would you buy ?.
All this talk about X airline only taking integrated is nonsense. You have to ask what are my chances of actually getting a job with that airline anyway ?. There are plenty more airlines that are happy to take modular trained pilots that you can apply to, and if you really have to work for X airlines, then just apply later when you have worked elsewhere for a while as they will still take you on.
Just think very long and very hard about what you are getting into. You could take a £25K unsecured loan that will cost a little over £300/month for 8 years, and that will get you the CPL/ME/IR done in the UK and some of the hour building if you went overseas, so if you worked for a couple of years you could save the rest for the PPL and ATPL ground school and not have to worry about having to pay out over £1k/month before you even get out of bed for the next 10 years and you also won't have risked your parents home.
You could always do full time modular if you so wished, but at least it still gives you the option to stop training at any stage.
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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For the love of god please please listen to the last few posts. They are right. Read and process what they are saying!
I trained during 9/11, although i'm employed now with a good job...i'm also drop zone in terms of seniority (you'll learn to love that word!) and could lose my job before Summer 2009 along with many others to flood the UK market...
Join us on Planet Earth Sam, it will all come round again (Isn't that a Carly Simon song...???) But timing is every thing and you're just about to make a big boob!
Leezyjet - hope you're well!
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rick0 - I wasn't having a go. What I meant is that a lot of people on here will not listen to well meant advice from people who have been in the industry for a long time and have a good understanding of what’s taking place. So many people seem happy to blunder on in and worry about the consequences later.
There is quite a bit of detailed information related to the industry out there. Takes a bit of digging to get to it. I am fortunate that a lot of relevant stuff is posted for me to read on my union/company forums. There is also a lot of info in industry/union publications etc. This means that wanabees don't get access to the same info we have and therefore may not fully understand what is happening inside the industry. That is not your fault!!
Because we understand that we are provided with more detailed information we then try to offer advice based on our knowledge of said information. It then gets ignored because people who don't have access to the information don't realise that their mental model is fundamentally flawed!
My point is so many people are making a huge financial decision without really truly understanding what’s going on at the moment. It wasn't really aimed at you (try and guess who it was aimed at)!
Anyway I'm off to try and save fuel now to keep my company in business!
There is quite a bit of detailed information related to the industry out there. Takes a bit of digging to get to it. I am fortunate that a lot of relevant stuff is posted for me to read on my union/company forums. There is also a lot of info in industry/union publications etc. This means that wanabees don't get access to the same info we have and therefore may not fully understand what is happening inside the industry. That is not your fault!!
Because we understand that we are provided with more detailed information we then try to offer advice based on our knowledge of said information. It then gets ignored because people who don't have access to the information don't realise that their mental model is fundamentally flawed!
My point is so many people are making a huge financial decision without really truly understanding what’s going on at the moment. It wasn't really aimed at you (try and guess who it was aimed at)!
Anyway I'm off to try and save fuel now to keep my company in business!
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Lol - my home router blocks all ads and this is the first time I have logged on from 'outside' and was amused to see google ads for HSBC at the bottom of the last post 
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samee,
my advice would be to apply for the NetJets scheme at OAA.
Then by all means borrow against the 'rents house as your on a shoe-in for a c.£40k salary from which NJ will deduct/reclaim your training costs.
Toughest integrated course to make it onto by all accounts (including mine! failed..) but what a job! and for such minimal financial risk.
Think about it... when the sh*t hits the fan, who does it affect more... mass transit of lower income folk to the costa's.. or millionares/billionaires wanting to fly at their convenience?
my advice would be to apply for the NetJets scheme at OAA.
Then by all means borrow against the 'rents house as your on a shoe-in for a c.£40k salary from which NJ will deduct/reclaim your training costs.
Toughest integrated course to make it onto by all accounts (including mine! failed..) but what a job! and for such minimal financial risk.
Think about it... when the sh*t hits the fan, who does it affect more... mass transit of lower income folk to the costa's.. or millionares/billionaires wanting to fly at their convenience?
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Decision: Delaying training. Will do my PPL at Newcastle Airport first and see how things go after that... Attending medical tommorrow at LGW (so wait for that).
Thanks for all advice.
Thanks for all advice.
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In the meantime will take some flying lessons at the weekends while i work (Bus Driver 
)
And yes i have the Revision Notes for the ATPL Exams...will take a look at them!
)And yes i have the Revision Notes for the ATPL Exams...will take a look at them!