Explain 737 with 10 sectors line training!

[alexpilot2008]

Hi there,

One day (and i mean 1 day) when i have the opportunity to carry out the 737 type rating training; was wondering what it all involves and how much of it is actually carried out in a 737.

What does it mean by '10 sector' line training? does this mean there are 10 sectors to the course and each sector is tested on.

How many hours is usually covered in a sim, and how many hours do you actually get flying the aircraft?

At the cost of 20k GBP i hope you get a good few hours in the actual aircraft itself.

[G CEXO]

i hope you get a good few hours in the actual aircraft itself

You don't actually get enough hours in the aircraft. With airlines asking for around 500 hours on type, these courses are a complete joke.

Anything above PPL training at the moment is pushing your luck, so take all TRTO's with a big container of salt.

G-XO

[Todders]

Thing of it as a few different stages:

1. Type Rating which will be programed for about 10 sessions in the sim @ 4 hours each giving total of 40hours sim time.(does vary slightly between training providers and of course your ability)
2. Base training min of 6T/O and Landings in an actual aircraft. You do this in the form of circuits.
3. Line taining: Now this one varies more than any of the rest depends on the airline you ar flying for and of course your experience. Can be around 60-100 sectors for a new FO. Now a sector is one flight t/o to landing so if your flying short sectors you may get 6 of these done in a day if your flying bucket and spade stuff usually only do 2. This is done on the aircraft and usually with pax onboard.

At the end of line training ie. you have completed more than the airlines min sectors/hours requirement and more importantly the training captains you have been flying with deem you ready, you will be out forward for a Line check. This is a flight like anyother except they are making sure you are doing everything to the standard they expect on the line and that you need no extra help in completing your duties and are suitable to fly with the rest of the line capts.

[BerksFlyer]

Why are you expecting to pay for a type rating having aknowledged it's a long way off? It's not just another step that's automatically funded by you you know.

[ford cortina]

Alex, 10 sectors are 10 flights. So if you fly Manchester to Madrid, that's one sector, the return leg is also one sector. So you will get two sectors. If you have 10 sectors in your line training, you will do 5 return flights, you might even get up to 40 hours on type. Please remember that any time in the Simulator is not counted to total time on type.

This will not help you in anyway in getting a job as a type rated pilot, as 40 hours is nothing in the world of jets, you need a minimum of 500 hours on type at the moment, it could go up.
Best of luck
FC

[mech500]

TR

i would easily pay the 20k or whatever it is - to fly a 737 to madrid and back 5 times (as suggested above).

Ive not done the maths but im sure it would be cheaper to do a modular course and fork out an additional 20k for a TR then it would be for an integrated course without a TR? Or least least very similar in price.

The job prospects are probably not much better (if at all) with a TR but at least you can the kick of flying the 737 (albeit for a short period of time). I might seriously consider paying for a TR in a couple of years when the industry picks up a bit - its probably not worth it right now.

p.s. is 'base training' with an airline? or is it with the training organisation?

[ford cortina]

Normally Base training is done with an Airline, most trto's are small outfits and don't have the odd 73 kicking around. Sterling, in the past have been known to do the odd Base Check for other trto's.

[DeltaT]

Ring up Air NZ, book a 737-3 type rating, pay NZ$30-35k.(13K GBP)
Sim is Cat D approved, so no real circuits required. Pass that.
Come back to UK, do a JAR sim test on a sim there and get signed off.
Saving has got to be min 5k GBP incl airfare and accom.
Anyone see any holes?

Regs say for conversion of a rating its either 500hrs on type or sufficient training to pass the sim test, and when I called the UK CAA they said that sign off for the UK sim test was all they were worried about. (in this conversion instance)

[Aerospace101]

Anyone see any holes?

If its your first type then you have to do base training - min 6 ccts.

[bucket_and_spade]

i would easily pay the 20k or whatever it is - to fly a 737 to madrid and back 5 times (as suggested above).

Really? You'd pay £20,000 to fly revenue-generating flights for an airline? Paying for a TR is a bitter pill to swallow but paying to fly passenger-carrying aircraft around is a perverse role reversal - you're doing a job, YOU should be being emunerated!

Ive not done the maths but im sure it would be cheaper to do a modular course and fork out an additional 20k for a TR then it would be for an integrated course without a TR? Or least least very similar in price.

I recommend you do some very detailed maths if you're talking about sums of money this large and are thinking of going down either path!

The job prospects are probably not much better (if at all) with a TR but at least you can the kick of flying the 737 (albeit for a short period of time). I might seriously consider paying for a TR in a couple of years when the industry picks up a bit - its probably not worth it right now.

Trust me - the 'kick' will wear off fairly quickly...and you'll be in the same position but £20,000 worse off

Don't get me wrong - I'm not bitter and jaded. I'm new to the job and absolutely love it. I'm just saying people need to balance their passion for getting into the career with a realistic idea of the hurdles involved and, dare I say it, with the principle of refusing to pay to do a job strongly ingrained. Or else, where do you draw the line?

B&S

[pilotmike]

Possibly there is a misunderstanding here about what might be expected for the quoted £20k?

Without wishing to enter any debate about the rights and wrongs of paying for a Type Rating or Line Training...

A typical 737 TR will consist of about 10-14 four hour sessions in the simulator, including Licence Skills Test. This, along with relevant technical groundschool might cost around £15k.

To gain the TR on the licence, a 'Base Check' or 1 hour of circuits is flown on an actual aircraft, costing possibly a further £5k. So to have the TR on one's licence might well cost around £20k, giving just 1 hour of flying the actual aircraft.

If 10 sectors of 'line training' are offered, believe me, these are very unlikely to be included in the £20k for the TR, and might well be charged out at a further £20k, as suggested. As line training is specific to an airline's SOPs, whilst valuable experience, they are not particularly useful to any future employer.

So you are not getting 10 flights for £20k, rather you might well expect to pay £40k to get to that position. So that is nearer to paying £3,600 per ACTUAL flight! Oh, and I hope I don't need to remind you that this sum is on top of the major fortune you will already have paid to train through the PPL, hour building, ATPL exams, CPL, multi, IR and MCC before even considering the privilege of paying for the TR and 'line training'.

In explaining this carefully, I simply wanted to give a degree of perspective and reality to axelpilot2008's hope that he would:

"get a good few hours in the actual [737] aircraft itself" for £20k.

PM

[IrishJetdriver]

10 sectors ? My company will expect an average of 80 sectors to complete line training. If you have no experience then you can expect to have a safety pilot on the jumpseat for all those 10 sectors because you don't really know what is going on.

You can't think of it at line training. It is just a brief taste that can be over in only 5 days.

Don't spend any money on a TR just yet. Unless a job is guaranteed. The FR program when it restarts will be a good and possibly only decent choice.

Don't pay for line training. Circuits form part of the TR and are thus included in the TR costs.

A 737 is a very complicated aeroplane. The TR will get you to the point where you shouldn't scare the c$%p out of the captain too often. You will not have the faintest idea of what it is like to fly operationally. That is what line training is for.

Save your money. batten down the hatches and prepare for a rough ride.

Otherwise, good luck.