Failed PPL flight test
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Failed PPL flight test
Okay, so I took my PPL flight test today (I've just under 80 hrs), everything went fairly well except my approaches - on the first one I was too close the aircraft in front and should have gone around before I did (the testing officer had to initiate it, although I was beginning to consider it just before he did), the second time we tried for a precision landing on the parallel grass runway and I got miles too low, should have gone around but went for it and ended up touching down about 3m prior to the runway threshold (which isn't that big of a deal because it's a taxiway, but still.) So I failed - which was fair enough (although until about 10min into the debrief I thought I'd passed - like I said everything else was fine.) Hopefully I'm going to go up and do some circuits with the testing officer again on thurs and my instructor says that he might just sign me off if everything's okay then (which it should be - I know that I know how to land properly, I just think that by the end of the test my nerves were getting to me.)
What I'm posting about though is to ask, will this affect my career as a commerical pilot? Do airlines really care very much if you failed your ppl first try? I haven't failed anything else, passed all my ppl, cpl & ifr exams. Thanks in advance!
What I'm posting about though is to ask, will this affect my career as a commerical pilot? Do airlines really care very much if you failed your ppl first try? I haven't failed anything else, passed all my ppl, cpl & ifr exams. Thanks in advance!
Join Date: Jun 2008
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how have u passed ur cpl and ifr exams when ur not a private pilot yet... hm im confused.... oh i have to say that landin before the threshold is majorly serious.
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ahhh got ya. cor ur doin well then! i wouldnt imagine u would neccessarily have to divulge that sort of information to a potential employer - especially ur ppl flight test. i wouldnt worry about it (havin said that im no airline pilot so im not qualified to comment. well good luck on the circuits - i hope he signs u off!
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Clear your head of what the airlines might think, and focus on what your instructor is teaching you to do, then your next exam trip might be just the ticket, one step at a time.
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Have to say the PPl skills test is there to make sure you are safe and not going to kill yourself ( or others ) when you go out flying on your own.
Obviously as a ppl you have minimal experience and are not expected to be able to deal with every situation 100% every time but you are able to make sensible and save decisions the majority of the time.
I wouldn't worry to much, just accept you failed it and learn from your mistakes, I guarentee you wont make them again.. Most employers will only be really interested in the IR, CPL and ATPL exam results and if they do ask you about the PPL and why you failed you just use that to your advantage and tell them how you learnt from it and as a result made you a better pilot.
Good luck anyway, use your experiences to your advantage..
Obviously as a ppl you have minimal experience and are not expected to be able to deal with every situation 100% every time but you are able to make sensible and save decisions the majority of the time.
I wouldn't worry to much, just accept you failed it and learn from your mistakes, I guarentee you wont make them again.. Most employers will only be really interested in the IR, CPL and ATPL exam results and if they do ask you about the PPL and why you failed you just use that to your advantage and tell them how you learnt from it and as a result made you a better pilot.
Good luck anyway, use your experiences to your advantage..
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I don't get it. Does employers ask you how many times you had to do the flight check exams for IR, CPL, ME? That sounds stupid. So what if someone did it on his third time.
Regards
Eikido
Regards
Eikido
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Hi Generic,
sorry to hear your news.
failing is always a disappointment not just for a candidate but also for the examiner. we always make it clear to candidates that we are there to pass them. if they fail they do so themselves but in truth provided their performance is safe and reasonable, examiners like to see people pass and we realise that at PPL stage they will go on to learn more.
in LAAland we have five sections ( six if its multi ) in the flight teast for PPL.. you only get a full fail if you fail any item ( or all items ) in TWO of the five sections...otherwise it is a partial pass ( if you breach only one section ).
from what you say, you only breached one section and so it leaves me wondering if there was something else that the examiner found unsatisfactory. you should enquire so you can rectify it if there was...if not then it seems a tad harsh to give you a full fail . there are items such as poor speed control that will take a canditate into a number of sections so in itself, that one factor could be enough to fail as it would breach more than one section.
mind you, there is a rule that if the examiner has to take control for a safety reason ( bearing in mind what you said about the go-round ) then no matter how well the test has gone before, that is automatically a full fail. allowances are made for the fact that people are a bit tired towards the end but their handling still has to be safe. how would it be if after a long flight and airline pilot allowed his handling to be impaired just because he/she was tired.. so the flight is'nt over until you have shut down and secured the aircraft....and by the way touchdown prior to the beginning of the runway is not acceptable just because it is a taxiway...it could be runway lights..!!... ( but still that is only one section from the test point of view )
some people feel less pain if they are awarded a partial pass...but in fact if there has been any other part of the test that was close to unsatisfactory then they are better off with a full fail rather than a partial for the reason that next time is a full retest whareas if the second attempt is after a partial, then a candidate is not allowed the luxury iof being able to breach one section and still get a partial. next flight after a partial a candidate must pass all sections. failure in ANY ONE section results in a full fail.
anyway, as you intend, brush up ( bearing in mind what you have said ) dust your self down and put in another application.sounds to me that you have had a very reasonable and balanced attitude to the result so i would have every confidence that you will do well next time.
good luck,
gear up.
the dean.
PS and by the way no employer will care or ask if you got the ppl in one or not..
sorry to hear your news.
failing is always a disappointment not just for a candidate but also for the examiner. we always make it clear to candidates that we are there to pass them. if they fail they do so themselves but in truth provided their performance is safe and reasonable, examiners like to see people pass and we realise that at PPL stage they will go on to learn more.in LAAland we have five sections ( six if its multi ) in the flight teast for PPL.. you only get a full fail if you fail any item ( or all items ) in TWO of the five sections...otherwise it is a partial pass ( if you breach only one section ).
from what you say, you only breached one section and so it leaves me wondering if there was something else that the examiner found unsatisfactory. you should enquire so you can rectify it if there was...if not then it seems a tad harsh to give you a full fail . there are items such as poor speed control that will take a canditate into a number of sections so in itself, that one factor could be enough to fail as it would breach more than one section.
mind you, there is a rule that if the examiner has to take control for a safety reason ( bearing in mind what you said about the go-round ) then no matter how well the test has gone before, that is automatically a full fail. allowances are made for the fact that people are a bit tired towards the end but their handling still has to be safe. how would it be if after a long flight and airline pilot allowed his handling to be impaired just because he/she was tired.. so the flight is'nt over until you have shut down and secured the aircraft....and by the way touchdown prior to the beginning of the runway is not acceptable just because it is a taxiway...it could be runway lights..!!... ( but still that is only one section from the test point of view )
some people feel less pain if they are awarded a partial pass...but in fact if there has been any other part of the test that was close to unsatisfactory then they are better off with a full fail rather than a partial for the reason that next time is a full retest whareas if the second attempt is after a partial, then a candidate is not allowed the luxury iof being able to breach one section and still get a partial. next flight after a partial a candidate must pass all sections. failure in ANY ONE section results in a full fail.
anyway, as you intend, brush up ( bearing in mind what you have said ) dust your self down and put in another application.sounds to me that you have had a very reasonable and balanced attitude to the result so i would have every confidence that you will do well next time.
good luck,
gear up.
the dean.
PS and by the way no employer will care or ask if you got the ppl in one or not..
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airlines ask if its first time pass as then they can judge if you are able to learn new things easily. they also want to know how many hours you compleated in. if to finish an IR in somthing like 100 hours rather than somthing near minimum they will ask questions again as it may point out you are not able to learn quickly.
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Dont think an airline would ever ask you how you got on in your ppl.....
Wouldnt woory about it, it may make you a better pilot...
Good luck buddy
Hope all works out
Safe flying
Celtic Pilot
Wouldnt woory about it, it may make you a better pilot...
Good luck buddy
Hope all works out
Safe flying
Celtic Pilot
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In a lot of cases
Someone who failed a test might be leaving out a few other things or perhaps there were other areas of "FAIL" that they did not get to know about.
Point stands, if you manage to do something dangerous, too bad-FAIL.
Put yourself in their shoes and imagine what happens if they pass someone who's NOT meant to pass. A while later they die in a horrific airplane accident. Who will they be looking at first?
Think a bit harder about an EXAMINERS responsability!
1/60
Point stands, if you manage to do something dangerous, too bad-FAIL.
Put yourself in their shoes and imagine what happens if they pass someone who's NOT meant to pass. A while later they die in a horrific airplane accident. Who will they be looking at first?
Think a bit harder about an EXAMINERS responsability!
1/60
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I hate to sound a note of caution here but:
First of all, any airline interview I have ever done I was asked whether I have EVER failed a check ride (at least here in the US it is a standard question), at that point you will have to talk about this experience. Most people will have had some problem along the way and it's no biggie, however, the first thing we MUST learn along the way as pilots is HOW to pass check rides.
There are some things that are laid out for the examiner that will result in automatic failures: land before threshold, descend below MDA (even 10 feet) on approach (before rway environment in sight etc), taxi onto a runway w/o clearance etc. All these things are important and serious safety considerations, I don't think anyone would (or should) pass a checkride with a mistake like that. Maybe some focus on the essential elements to pass your checkrides might be key. Additionally, if the examiner has to take over control of the aircraft then that should be an automatic fail also.
The more serious consideration for me is the very fact that you think it's not a big deal to land on a taxiway prior to the runway threshold or get so close that the examiner has to take control and makes me wonder if there are some grave attitude problems. Failing to go-around TWICE. You have to realize that examiners don't care as much whether you can "make" the landing as whether you are safe.
If you were my student (when I was a flght instructor) and you gave me that explanation (ONLY 3m before threshold etc.) I would feel that I have utterly failed and would ask another FI to take you over.
Sorry if I sound a little harsh but I feel an honest point of view might be of more use to you than just more words of encouragement.
First of all, any airline interview I have ever done I was asked whether I have EVER failed a check ride (at least here in the US it is a standard question), at that point you will have to talk about this experience. Most people will have had some problem along the way and it's no biggie, however, the first thing we MUST learn along the way as pilots is HOW to pass check rides.
There are some things that are laid out for the examiner that will result in automatic failures: land before threshold, descend below MDA (even 10 feet) on approach (before rway environment in sight etc), taxi onto a runway w/o clearance etc. All these things are important and serious safety considerations, I don't think anyone would (or should) pass a checkride with a mistake like that. Maybe some focus on the essential elements to pass your checkrides might be key. Additionally, if the examiner has to take over control of the aircraft then that should be an automatic fail also.
The more serious consideration for me is the very fact that you think it's not a big deal to land on a taxiway prior to the runway threshold or get so close that the examiner has to take control and makes me wonder if there are some grave attitude problems. Failing to go-around TWICE. You have to realize that examiners don't care as much whether you can "make" the landing as whether you are safe.
If you were my student (when I was a flght instructor) and you gave me that explanation (ONLY 3m before threshold etc.) I would feel that I have utterly failed and would ask another FI to take you over.
Sorry if I sound a little harsh but I feel an honest point of view might be of more use to you than just more words of encouragement.
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Thanks for all the comments, it's made me feel a bit better at least.
I realise that landing before the threshold is a big deal, obviously it should never happen, what I meant was that it wasn't particularly unsafe on this occassion because of the basically unused taxiway prior to it (and the big area of grass before that) but still, whether it's safe in actuality or not, as I've said I realise it's totally unacceptable and a definite reason for a fail!
The testing officer has something like 30,000 hours and basically knows everything, he gave me a few anecdotes after the debrief all about the importance of go-arounds, so if one good thing comes to me from all this, it's that the attitude of "if in doubt, go around" has been drilled into my skull.
I realise that landing before the threshold is a big deal, obviously it should never happen, what I meant was that it wasn't particularly unsafe on this occassion because of the basically unused taxiway prior to it (and the big area of grass before that) but still, whether it's safe in actuality or not, as I've said I realise it's totally unacceptable and a definite reason for a fail!
The testing officer has something like 30,000 hours and basically knows everything, he gave me a few anecdotes after the debrief all about the importance of go-arounds, so if one good thing comes to me from all this, it's that the attitude of "if in doubt, go around" has been drilled into my skull.
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I have worked as a flying instructor, turbo prop pilot and now on an airbus with a major carrier. I have never been asked to produce anything regarding exams, flight tests, sim checks. If you are good enough to pass the recruitment requirements which will usually include a sim check then on the basis that you have a CPL/ATPL you will be offered a position. Just go out and try to relax, pass the test and enjoy your future flying. Mate of mine failed his IR first time around, he is now Capt with a low cost carrier, another failed his first TWO rounds of ATPL exams, he is now flying with a major on jets.
By the way, if you do o.k. on the circuits then the examiner should just sign you off.
Mate of mine failed his IR first time around, he is now Capt with a low cost carrier, another failed his first TWO rounds of ATPL exams, he is now flying with a major on jets.By the way, if you do o.k. on the circuits then the examiner should just sign you off.
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Take your exam in Italy. I know about a guy who passed his PPL skill test even though he did FORGET to send his FPL, taxied out to the WRONG runway and FORGOT to apply carb heat on the approach. Italy sucks 
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Generic
I am really pleased you have picked up a lesson from this experience! If in doubt, GO AROUND! Here (RIXland) we really believe that an examination should be a continuation of the learning process and it is great news that you have picked up on this.
What I would emphasise is that the examiner at PPL level wants to see you make the SAFEST decission in all circumstances regardless of if this makes the rest of your flying look bad - this of course is the requirement for ALL test, just the demands on your flying skills will be greater at IR/CPL and PC levels.
My advice to you would be to keep a little voice in the back of your head - get this little dude to continually ask you "is this the safest course of action".
I was once on a check out in a brand new C172 with a PAX in the back. The owner passed me even though I was WAY too high all the way through my PFL. At about 500' I told him that I would now consider using sideslip if it were a real emergency but the PAX in the back was preventing me using it during this practice. When he de-briefed me he said he was happy to pass me because 1) I WOULD have been able to comfortably get in by using sideslip and 2) I had obviously read the AFM and was aware of the limitation of no slipping with PAX in the back, except for in emergencies.
The senior examiner here (my boss) told me of a case a long time ago. The candidate passed without even flying! The examiner had flown with the candidate on a previous flight and made his assessment then. On the day of the test flight the weather was on/just below minima. The candidate decided not to fly even though his rating was about to lapse. The examiner passed his PC based on the earlier flight and his good judgement in not dispatching at that time.
RIX
What I would emphasise is that the examiner at PPL level wants to see you make the SAFEST decission in all circumstances regardless of if this makes the rest of your flying look bad - this of course is the requirement for ALL test, just the demands on your flying skills will be greater at IR/CPL and PC levels.
My advice to you would be to keep a little voice in the back of your head - get this little dude to continually ask you "is this the safest course of action".
I was once on a check out in a brand new C172 with a PAX in the back. The owner passed me even though I was WAY too high all the way through my PFL. At about 500' I told him that I would now consider using sideslip if it were a real emergency but the PAX in the back was preventing me using it during this practice. When he de-briefed me he said he was happy to pass me because 1) I WOULD have been able to comfortably get in by using sideslip and 2) I had obviously read the AFM and was aware of the limitation of no slipping with PAX in the back, except for in emergencies.
The senior examiner here (my boss) told me of a case a long time ago. The candidate passed without even flying! The examiner had flown with the candidate on a previous flight and made his assessment then. On the day of the test flight the weather was on/just below minima. The candidate decided not to fly even though his rating was about to lapse. The examiner passed his PC based on the earlier flight and his good judgement in not dispatching at that time.
RIX
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You have 80 hrs yet cannot land an aircraft safely. I think you should be thinking about a career outside of aviation.
However, the fact that Generic has come on here, admitted to a mistake and sought advice on the best way to sort the problem out and move forward suggests to me that he's far more suitable to a career in aviation than you. Just my 2p.