Cheap Place for MCC?
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Recommend European aviation, Bournemouth - £2499 Full motion 737-200
Great set of guys. Really valuable course.
In my opinion, stay away from the static boxes others offer!
Great set of guys. Really valuable course.
In my opinion, stay away from the static boxes others offer!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
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Wolverhampton Flight Centre is about as cheap as it gets. Alsim 200 sim, excellent instructors, relaxed environment. Also some first class, and cheap, accommodation nearby. Can give you the details if you want them.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Cheap is not best. EAL at Bournemouth is the place to go. Full motion 737 sim for not much more than a static box ? No brainer.
I did the L1011 TriStar a few years back. Worth every penny.
I did the L1011 TriStar a few years back. Worth every penny.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I completed my MCC at Oxford on the 737-400 and I have to say even though it may be a little more expensive it was worth every penny.
A mixture of early mornings late nights and all the hours in between make for an exceptional course. The bonus of the 737 400 is that it is still in use today in the UK so when it comes to that all important sim ride you already know where most of the switches are. Rapid decompression, APU fire, fuel leaks, really get the heart pumping and you soon start thinking as a crew not as an individual. Well worth it.
The JOT course is also good value for money especially if you have an interview with an airline as the Instructors will allow you to practise every you need for the sim ride, however, the MCC alone will bring you up top a high standard.
A mixture of early mornings late nights and all the hours in between make for an exceptional course. The bonus of the 737 400 is that it is still in use today in the UK so when it comes to that all important sim ride you already know where most of the switches are. Rapid decompression, APU fire, fuel leaks, really get the heart pumping and you soon start thinking as a crew not as an individual. Well worth it.
The JOT course is also good value for money especially if you have an interview with an airline as the Instructors will allow you to practise every you need for the sim ride, however, the MCC alone will bring you up top a high standard.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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After 3 years of flying for a UK airline, i can tell you that the type and quality of sim are quite immaterial. Get the best course you can get, with the best instructors and the rest will follow.
It is not a "this is what its like flying for an airline" course, more this is how to work within one. Sorry if this sounds condesending but all this talk about full motion etc is nonesense. You could do a MCC in a car.
It is not a "this is what its like flying for an airline" course, more this is how to work within one. Sorry if this sounds condesending but all this talk about full motion etc is nonesense. You could do a MCC in a car.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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I agree Tonker.
The chaps at London Met used to advise us to do it on something simple, like a twin prop that you are already familier with, rather than a jet as you will waste alot of time just learning where things are and how systems work, which is not really the point of an MCC course.
An MCC is to teach you how to operate in a multi-crew environment, rather than handle a jet - thats what a type rating is for.
The chaps at London Met used to advise us to do it on something simple, like a twin prop that you are already familier with, rather than a jet as you will waste alot of time just learning where things are and how systems work, which is not really the point of an MCC course.
An MCC is to teach you how to operate in a multi-crew environment, rather than handle a jet - thats what a type rating is for.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Of course the London MET guys are right. The MCC was designed to be sat in a cardboard bomber which is pretty much what they offer you. Only problem is that the market has dictated otherwise.
Many of your colleagues now go off and get an MCC in a jet, then pay to do a jet handling course. When called for a sim ride they are already over the awe of the lights and buttons and slot into the seat and fly the profile whilst many others will be pysched out and pinching themselves that they are flying a big bad jet.
If you back yourself enough then by all means go and do it cheap and cheerful. If not then get ahead of the game.
Many of your colleagues now go off and get an MCC in a jet, then pay to do a jet handling course. When called for a sim ride they are already over the awe of the lights and buttons and slot into the seat and fly the profile whilst many others will be pysched out and pinching themselves that they are flying a big bad jet.
If you back yourself enough then by all means go and do it cheap and cheerful. If not then get ahead of the game.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Tonker and Leezy, what you are forgetting is that the next step after the MCC course is an interview and a SIM ride (hopefully).
While on a sim ride they want to see your MCC/CRM abilities, you can't tell me that they are also not looking at your general handling of the aircraft, and you also can't tell me that turning up to a 737800 SIM check- that it hasn't helped that you did your MCC on a 737400 instead of a kingair (or your car)....
Yes the MCC is purely to teach you to fly with two crew, but there is so much competition for jobs, especially right now, that you need to be able to stand out on a sim check, and having flown something simular before will give you the best possible chance on the sim check.. fact
While on a sim ride they want to see your MCC/CRM abilities, you can't tell me that they are also not looking at your general handling of the aircraft, and you also can't tell me that turning up to a 737800 SIM check- that it hasn't helped that you did your MCC on a 737400 instead of a kingair (or your car)....
Yes the MCC is purely to teach you to fly with two crew, but there is so much competition for jobs, especially right now, that you need to be able to stand out on a sim check, and having flown something simular before will give you the best possible chance on the sim check.. fact
Join Date: Dec 2005
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And the instructor at the sim check will probably expect to see that particular person stand out assuming theyve already had 20 odd hours practice of a jet sim from an mcc.
For the guy who hasnt...they will be looking at MCC/CRM skills and that persons ability to listen and put into practice what theyre told. If they make a mess of the first 20 mins handling...so what...to be expected. We're not born as aviators. If they show improvement however, listen, and correct their mistakes then that is all the instructor will be looking for. It is the ability to 'learn' and be taught that is important. Thats all that needs to be seen.
For the guy who hasnt...they will be looking at MCC/CRM skills and that persons ability to listen and put into practice what theyre told. If they make a mess of the first 20 mins handling...so what...to be expected. We're not born as aviators. If they show improvement however, listen, and correct their mistakes then that is all the instructor will be looking for. It is the ability to 'learn' and be taught that is important. Thats all that needs to be seen.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Of course you are right. But everyone who's passed a course will always recommend the way they did it etc..
They may expect more from you, but with 20 hours under your belt that won't be a problem.
Tell me MIKECR, who do you work for now? Where did you have SIM assessments?
I was on a B737 MCC at Oxford when Ryanair showed up for a recruitment day. They looked at me an my mate wierd when we went up to them at the end of the show and said we were only doing the MCC. They actually said to us why are you not doing the JOC, as it will be less of a risk on the type rating with the extra experience from the JOC. God only knows what he would have said to someone who did a MCC on a Kingair.
Needless to say, my mate and I are on the 737 type rating with Ryanair now, having passed the sim check. Not having any problems on the type course so far, touch wood.
They may expect more from you, but with 20 hours under your belt that won't be a problem.
Tell me MIKECR, who do you work for now? Where did you have SIM assessments?
I was on a B737 MCC at Oxford when Ryanair showed up for a recruitment day. They looked at me an my mate wierd when we went up to them at the end of the show and said we were only doing the MCC. They actually said to us why are you not doing the JOC, as it will be less of a risk on the type rating with the extra experience from the JOC. God only knows what he would have said to someone who did a MCC on a Kingair.
Needless to say, my mate and I are on the 737 type rating with Ryanair now, having passed the sim check. Not having any problems on the type course so far, touch wood.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Why tell them? Sure don't lie if you are asked a direct question but if it was me starting out again I sure as hell won't be advertising the fact that I had a few hours in a sim prior to a sim ride. At the MCC course I attended the majority of us got sim rides as a result of having completed a certain course so it was well known that you had some time on type so to speak. And yes others that went for the sim ride without completing the MCC on the jet type struggled. Many were overawed.
Maybe a TRE will notice and maybe they won't. In this day and age of advanced PC sims many folks can fly a FD bar read a PFD and twiddle an FCU as second nature. They are looking for your ability to be trained and to fit into their operation. Each and every operator will have a different slant on what this entails. You can surmise all you want about what the theoretical TRE is looking for but in reality you will never know. Some of it will simply depend on who you are competing with on the day and other days it will depend on how desperate they are to get bums on seats. All you can do is to go in well prepared and motivated and give it your best shot. If you get the chance to have a debrief then be brutually honest about all your failings and what went well and hope for the best. You can't blag a sim ride.
Maybe a TRE will notice and maybe they won't. In this day and age of advanced PC sims many folks can fly a FD bar read a PFD and twiddle an FCU as second nature. They are looking for your ability to be trained and to fit into their operation. Each and every operator will have a different slant on what this entails. You can surmise all you want about what the theoretical TRE is looking for but in reality you will never know. Some of it will simply depend on who you are competing with on the day and other days it will depend on how desperate they are to get bums on seats. All you can do is to go in well prepared and motivated and give it your best shot. If you get the chance to have a debrief then be brutually honest about all your failings and what went well and hope for the best. You can't blag a sim ride.
Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I did my MCC in a full motion sim (EAL's 737-200). Just as potkettleblack says, my next sim session was an airline assessment - in another full motion sim. Using motion for the first time is a whole new experience which is exciting and can be a little disconcerting - I'm awfully glad I'd had over 20hrs practice before the assessment.
Do the MCC in an FNPT2 / car / downstairs loo, whatever, you'll still get the same piece of papar. I just know that experience in a full motion sim helped me perform better in my assessment and helped me get a job. And the assessor is pretty unlikely to ask where and how you did your MCC, mine was only interested in how many hours each of us had.
Do the MCC in an FNPT2 / car / downstairs loo, whatever, you'll still get the same piece of papar. I just know that experience in a full motion sim helped me perform better in my assessment and helped me get a job. And the assessor is pretty unlikely to ask where and how you did your MCC, mine was only interested in how many hours each of us had.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Some intresting veiws on the options avaiable! I did my MCC on a King Air fixed base sim at Atlantic. Excellent course, focused on the MCC and how airlines operate an what is expected in the industry!
Then when I had an airline sim check, I hired the same type of sim and focused on how to fly that type!
That worked for me!
Good Luck.
Then when I had an airline sim check, I hired the same type of sim and focused on how to fly that type!
That worked for me!
Good Luck.
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Well, thanks a lot for the great input, however, I did not mean to start an argument as to whether MCC in a FMS or a card box, I just want the paper! I believe in working myself up the ladder. Presently flying a SE AC for a living so next step for me will be ANY job on a twin and for that I do not need a 737 MCC! This, BTW, does not mean I would not take the 737 job if being offered! So, once again, where is the cheapest place to go to? Preferably near Peterborough as I am based in that area and could save some cash on accom? Many thanks again.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Well i did my MCC on a King Air and had no problems getting a 737 job a sim ride, and advanced handling course.
They are not looking for instant handling skills, but usually a steady increase over say 3 SIDS. An experienced training captain would always take previous experience into consideration anyway.
They are not looking for instant handling skills, but usually a steady increase over say 3 SIDS. An experienced training captain would always take previous experience into consideration anyway.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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As tonker say, sim type IS irrelevant. What matters most is the quality of the instruction and the SOP/paperwork/checklists etc.
If you're concerned about a sim check, do a good value MCC and buy a few hours in a jet sim before the check ride. You'll end up with more hands on time and more hours than with an expensive MCC.
If you're concerned about a sim check, do a good value MCC and buy a few hours in a jet sim before the check ride. You'll end up with more hands on time and more hours than with an expensive MCC.
