Ormond Beach Aviation - Hour Building
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Civil Aviation
The last time that I did the numbers (about six months ago) the cost of a typical Florida based 50 hour packge was about £72/hour by the time all the costs are taken into account.
UK company offers a package that if wisely flown can better his by a small margin and better it by 12.5% on flights to europe. The costs will have incresed due to the oil costs but so have the prices in the USA.
The aircraft are in first class condition, something that can't be said of most of the offerings to hoursbuilders in the USA.
Unfortunatly due to the rules about advertising on pprune I can't tell you any more about the company.
UK company offers a package that if wisely flown can better his by a small margin and better it by 12.5% on flights to europe. The costs will have incresed due to the oil costs but so have the prices in the USA.
The aircraft are in first class condition, something that can't be said of most of the offerings to hoursbuilders in the USA.
Unfortunatly due to the rules about advertising on pprune I can't tell you any more about the company.
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On my calculations last year (before the price rises on both sides of the atlantic) a US based hour building package came in at £61 per hour (hobbs), on top of that you have 300-400 flight (low cost airline), possible accomodation, food whilst there and spending money then your mortgage or rent payments for your house over here, in the end there was little or no difference and in some cases actually worked out MORE EXPENSIVE!!
This year I worked out in this country you can get a C152 for approx £69-75 per hour. If you join a no equity group this can be slightly less at £55 wet per hour plus monthly charges.
In the US with the rises, you are looking at £64 (now $4.99 a gallon of 100LL) per hour (hobbs) (based 100 hours at £6397)..... in the UK you can get 100 hours at £5920 (allow for slight variations) and this is for the same aircraft.
SAVING OF - £477 (without taking into account flight charges, out of pocket expenses etc etc!)
In this country "if you shop around" you can pay by monthly invoice or even by the hour. At OBA they only except a payment upfront for the full amount and if you have to return home for whatever reason you get stung for 25% "cancellation charge"!! Don't forget to add there flying restrictions also PPL or no PPL. It's their aircraft.
Experience of the UK weather and a country over run with airspace can be valuable experience to a newly qualified pilot compared to sunny days and open airspace (generally) in the US. People just think of the weather when they go to the US without taking into account other amenities.
SHOP AROUND. Flying schools will charge you £100-160 per hour and there is more restrictions due to training commitments as to where you can fly. But based on a school near me they are charging £130 solo per hour (£13,000 for 100 hours) - abolsute lunacy!!! However they are kind enough to give discounts for payments up front of 10%
This year I worked out in this country you can get a C152 for approx £69-75 per hour. If you join a no equity group this can be slightly less at £55 wet per hour plus monthly charges.
In the US with the rises, you are looking at £64 (now $4.99 a gallon of 100LL) per hour (hobbs) (based 100 hours at £6397)..... in the UK you can get 100 hours at £5920 (allow for slight variations) and this is for the same aircraft.
SAVING OF - £477 (without taking into account flight charges, out of pocket expenses etc etc!)
In this country "if you shop around" you can pay by monthly invoice or even by the hour. At OBA they only except a payment upfront for the full amount and if you have to return home for whatever reason you get stung for 25% "cancellation charge"!! Don't forget to add there flying restrictions also PPL or no PPL. It's their aircraft.
Experience of the UK weather and a country over run with airspace can be valuable experience to a newly qualified pilot compared to sunny days and open airspace (generally) in the US. People just think of the weather when they go to the US without taking into account other amenities.
SHOP AROUND. Flying schools will charge you £100-160 per hour and there is more restrictions due to training commitments as to where you can fly. But based on a school near me they are charging £130 solo per hour (£13,000 for 100 hours) - abolsute lunacy!!! However they are kind enough to give discounts for payments up front of 10%
Last edited by XL319; 24th Jun 2008 at 22:47.
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You could actually fly in this country 24 hours a day if you got the right deal!!
and you can fly where ever you want in the world (France, Ireland, Portugal all easyily done)
SHOP AROUND!!!
Maybe you just have your heart set on going to Florida....which is fair enough!
Some people and groups which I know have little or no restriction on your flying!!
and you can fly where ever you want in the world (France, Ireland, Portugal all easyily done)
SHOP AROUND!!!
Maybe you just have your heart set on going to Florida....which is fair enough!
Some people and groups which I know have little or no restriction on your flying!!
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[Quote]I personally don't care about the cost of Hour Building.
I have family out in the USA, so will not need to have the OBA accomodation either.
When I go out to complete my Hour Building next year, I shall be using a business trip to complete it.
So bring on the USA (even if it is expensive)
Rock on[Unquote]
Sounds a bit silly and foolish!
I have family out in the USA, so will not need to have the OBA accomodation either.
When I go out to complete my Hour Building next year, I shall be using a business trip to complete it.
So bring on the USA (even if it is expensive)
Rock on[Unquote]
Sounds a bit silly and foolish!
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I always find it quite surprising that the anti US brigade always make the point of "don't forget if you go to the US you will have to factor in food costs!", don't these people ever eat in the UK then?, or do they get their food free over here?, you can eat like a king in the US for a lot less then over here!
Also another cost to consider with current UK fuel prices is the cost of the fuel getting to and from the airfield, its ok saying that you can get a deal for £5920 but if you are only flying an hour or two at a time and the airfield is some distance away, that saving will soon be gone, especially when you add the landing fees as well.
Theres benefits to both ways, just down to personal choice really.
VFR Transit, if you want any info or pictures, PM me
Also another cost to consider with current UK fuel prices is the cost of the fuel getting to and from the airfield, its ok saying that you can get a deal for £5920 but if you are only flying an hour or two at a time and the airfield is some distance away, that saving will soon be gone, especially when you add the landing fees as well.
Theres benefits to both ways, just down to personal choice really.
VFR Transit, if you want any info or pictures, PM me
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We could all say the Anti UK brigade blah blah blah, pointless post really mcgoo.
There was nothing anti US in my post, i've been there, merely trying to highlight the potential costs to people. Its obviously their choice at the end of the day. People automatically think US cheap = UK expensive. Not the case!!!
Its a known fact that you would always spend more if your away from home in food costs as you tend to eat out more often...then there is the tips on top (esp in the US
)
Like i said previously SHOP AROUND!!!!!
There was nothing anti US in my post, i've been there, merely trying to highlight the potential costs to people. Its obviously their choice at the end of the day. People automatically think US cheap = UK expensive. Not the case!!!
Its a known fact that you would always spend more if your away from home in food costs as you tend to eat out more often...then there is the tips on top (esp in the US
)Like i said previously SHOP AROUND!!!!!
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Oh right, I added a couple of costs not previously mentioned and it's a pointless post, whereas a previous poster said regardless of the differences he actually just wants to go to the US and you call him silly and foolish. 
And that comment wasn't aimed at you XL319, it's just a point that always arises in these threads!
And that comment wasn't aimed at you XL319, it's just a point that always arises in these threads!
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XL319 - UK vs. US Hour Building "Facts an Fantasy"!
XL319 quote:
"In the UK you can get 100 hours at £5920 (allow for slight variations) and this is for the same aircraft" (Cessna 150?):
This equals £59.20/hour.
So let us work this backwards (simple maths!):
£59.20 less VAT @17.5% = £8.82 = £50.38
£50.38 less Avgas @ 20 litres/hour @ £1.60/litre = £32/hour = £18.38
£18.38 less insurance @ £3,500/year = £4.66/hour (based on 750 hour annual utilisation) = £11.72
£13.72 less engine overhaul cost @ £5,000 = £2.77/hour (based on 1,800 hour TBO) = £10.95
£10.95 less .5 litres of W100 oil/hour @ £3.00/litre = £1.50 = £9.45
£9.45 less required scheduled maintenance of 4 x 50 hour inspections @ £150 each, less 2 x 150 hour @ £400 each less 1 annual inspection @ £1,000 = £3.20/hour = £6.35
£6.35 less unscheduled maintenance (avionics, instruments, tyres, brakes, interior, paint, general wear/tear and the CAA "Star" Inspection fee, etc.) @ £5/hour = operating profit of £1.35/hour!
The annual operating profit to the operator based on 750 hours annual utilisation = £1,012.50
In this "750 hour per year" operating scenario, (and lets face it, in the UK this is only a "dream" as most "busy" clubs struggle to get 500 hours/year/aircraft), the cost of operation on this most conservative basis is £60.55.
Not a good business model for the longterm?
In addition, the above costings do not include "hangarage", "parking" or "airfield landing card" etc. This alone could conservatively cost another £500 - £1,500 per year! Makes it even worse, (or better if it is a charity!).
Therefore OBA at £63.97/hour including "VAT", accommodation for 4 weeks, (that is next to the airfield, i.e. a short walk and no car/petrol @ £1.20+/litre to get there and back everyday), airport pick up/drop off, "club" check out, free "hand holding/advice" for 4 weeks, no landing fees, etc. etc., does seem like a bit of a "deal", even when you add £+/- £300/400 for the flight.
XL319: Please tell us all where this "magic" of operating Cessna 150's is performed? Oxfam Aviation?
Regards,
Adrian Thompson
President and Head of Training
OBA
P.S. Yes, you can take the aircraft away for the night as per the above post.
P.P.S. If you do not "get the hours in" because of reasonable circumstances out of your control, (weather limits etc.), you will get a full refund of your unused account balance.
P.P.P.S. If you are actually "serious" about your flying, e.g. "you get a plane scheduled for 3 hours you fly it for +/- 2 hours and 40 minutes and don't go up to Flagler everyday, (15 minutes), chat up the "bird in the bar" for 2 hours and fly back, 15 minutes! You will never have a problem at OBA. If you are here for 100 hours/4 weeks, have an aircraft scheduled for 250 hours and fly it for 37 hours over the 4 weeks, you will have a problem, i.e. you are taking the p1ss! Trust me, this happens all too often!
P.P.P.P.S. If you have just got your PPL and dream of wanting to "tour the USA", e.g. fly from Ormond to LA/NY and back, (or some other ridiculous 2,500+ mile cross country flight), we are not going to let you do it! We really like pilots to fly within their safe/experience limitations and come home in one piece!
P.P.P.P.P.S. www, sorry to be so frank and honest, it is just a problem I have! Just tell it like it is!
"In the UK you can get 100 hours at £5920 (allow for slight variations) and this is for the same aircraft" (Cessna 150?):
This equals £59.20/hour.
So let us work this backwards (simple maths!):
£59.20 less VAT @17.5% = £8.82 = £50.38
£50.38 less Avgas @ 20 litres/hour @ £1.60/litre = £32/hour = £18.38
£18.38 less insurance @ £3,500/year = £4.66/hour (based on 750 hour annual utilisation) = £11.72
£13.72 less engine overhaul cost @ £5,000 = £2.77/hour (based on 1,800 hour TBO) = £10.95
£10.95 less .5 litres of W100 oil/hour @ £3.00/litre = £1.50 = £9.45
£9.45 less required scheduled maintenance of 4 x 50 hour inspections @ £150 each, less 2 x 150 hour @ £400 each less 1 annual inspection @ £1,000 = £3.20/hour = £6.35
£6.35 less unscheduled maintenance (avionics, instruments, tyres, brakes, interior, paint, general wear/tear and the CAA "Star" Inspection fee, etc.) @ £5/hour = operating profit of £1.35/hour!
The annual operating profit to the operator based on 750 hours annual utilisation = £1,012.50
In this "750 hour per year" operating scenario, (and lets face it, in the UK this is only a "dream" as most "busy" clubs struggle to get 500 hours/year/aircraft), the cost of operation on this most conservative basis is £60.55.
Not a good business model for the longterm?
In addition, the above costings do not include "hangarage", "parking" or "airfield landing card" etc. This alone could conservatively cost another £500 - £1,500 per year! Makes it even worse, (or better if it is a charity!).
Therefore OBA at £63.97/hour including "VAT", accommodation for 4 weeks, (that is next to the airfield, i.e. a short walk and no car/petrol @ £1.20+/litre to get there and back everyday), airport pick up/drop off, "club" check out, free "hand holding/advice" for 4 weeks, no landing fees, etc. etc., does seem like a bit of a "deal", even when you add £+/- £300/400 for the flight.
XL319: Please tell us all where this "magic" of operating Cessna 150's is performed? Oxfam Aviation?
Regards,
Adrian Thompson
President and Head of Training
OBA
P.S. Yes, you can take the aircraft away for the night as per the above post.
P.P.S. If you do not "get the hours in" because of reasonable circumstances out of your control, (weather limits etc.), you will get a full refund of your unused account balance.
P.P.P.S. If you are actually "serious" about your flying, e.g. "you get a plane scheduled for 3 hours you fly it for +/- 2 hours and 40 minutes and don't go up to Flagler everyday, (15 minutes), chat up the "bird in the bar" for 2 hours and fly back, 15 minutes! You will never have a problem at OBA. If you are here for 100 hours/4 weeks, have an aircraft scheduled for 250 hours and fly it for 37 hours over the 4 weeks, you will have a problem, i.e. you are taking the p1ss! Trust me, this happens all too often!
P.P.P.P.S. If you have just got your PPL and dream of wanting to "tour the USA", e.g. fly from Ormond to LA/NY and back, (or some other ridiculous 2,500+ mile cross country flight), we are not going to let you do it! We really like pilots to fly within their safe/experience limitations and come home in one piece!
P.P.P.P.P.S. www, sorry to be so frank and honest, it is just a problem I have! Just tell it like it is!
Last edited by OBA; 25th Jun 2008 at 03:21.
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Please stop saying 'In the US' to describe only one training school. If you just want to hour build, there are many cheap schools. Cirrus Aviation in Oregon (just down the road from me) is renting a C150 for $65 an hour wet. That's 33GBP, and they do a 10% block discount so that's 3000GBP for 100 hours.
So by your logic, the US is half the price of the UK, right?
If you just want to bash a particular flightschool, then do that, but stop giving bad advice that somone might be foolish enough to listen to.
So by your logic, the US is half the price of the UK, right?
If you just want to bash a particular flightschool, then do that, but stop giving bad advice that somone might be foolish enough to listen to.
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Unfortunatly due to the rules about advertising on pprune I can't tell you any more about the company.
So why can t you afford to advertise on any website, let alone have your own website?
There was nothing anti US in my post, i've been there, merely trying to highlight the potential costs to people. Its obviously their choice at the end of the day. People automatically think US cheap = UK expensive. Not the case!!!
US is cheap, uk is expensive, no one s gonna change it.
Reasons:
-Avgas is less than 2.5 GBP/gallon instead of 5 GBP/gallon
-Minimal registration and paperwork fees
-Lower parts cost due to bigger market
-More competition
-Lower expenses on food (you can get a good burger with fries and some pop for less than 6$ almost anywhere)
Ok, sure there s a hotel to book, a car to rent and an airline ticket to buy.
Say your car rental costs you 20$ a day, your hotel 40$ a day (you re not staying at the Hilton), your airline ticket 50$ a day.
That s 110$ a day.
Now that s alot of money unless you can divide the cost over 3 to 5 hours a day.
If you only fly 3 hours a day, you d be paying 36$/18GBP per hour on expenses.
If you get to fly 5 hours a day, the split cost per hour is lowered to 22$/11GBP per hour.
You can rent good c-150s for less than 70$/35GBP an hour around the country.
So yes, you can definitely stay below 50GBP an hour in the US.
What's the lowest rental rate on a Cessna 150 in the uk?
Somewhere around 85GBP/hour with actual Avgas prices???
YES, the US is cheaper!!!!
PLUS: in the UK you'd spend 10GBP on landing fees and 5GBP on your car trip to the airport alone... I wouldn't be surprised if they start charging for flight planning as well...
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No Fantasy, just FACTS!!!
This was NOT a dig at your school Adrian so please don't take it so personal, but I understand you will want to protect your company image. I understand that you don't want other people giving the costs out as it could effect who comes to you for training. Your costs are good yes, however there is cheaper out there!!! It was a mere calculation on the "true" costs of hour building. Make the buyer beware as they say.
I'm sorry to disappoint AT, but £5920 is actually a C152 so slightly better than yours....with ADF, VOR, DME, ILS, Mode C, and only 5096 hours airframe. But sadly no autopilot
I would like to add that £5920 actually includes Hangerage, Insurance, including any maintenance.
Ok so lets break this down - £70 PCM standing charge (allows for insurance, maintenance, etc etc) - ok for 6 months £420 -5920 = £5500
£5500 / by 100 - £55.00 hour WET (just went up from £50.00 due to fuel costs) - we calculated on 24 ltrs fuel burn per hour not 20 as some people forget to lean (20.6 ltrs fuel burn if you lean correctly)
Fuel is currently £1.49 inc VAT (correct at time of writing) Comes in at 49.69 per hour.
It even includes oil!!!!
Seems a bit of a "deal" to me!!
ALL PRICES INCLUSIVE OF VAT
I would like to add that it is people's choices when it comes down to it and people should be aware of the actual true costs! I would like to add that with OBA you only allow for 3 hours flying per day (correct me if i'm wrong), i'm sure that there must be other restrictions with other people training at OBA which "must" limit the use of the aircraft some way or other.
I don't work for any school or club, but actually a no equity group!!! (no i dont own the aircraft either)
If you require something a little bigger we do have a C172 at £110 standing charge PCM and £70.00 per hour WET!!
P.S. I'm just telling it how it is!!!
I'm sorry to disappoint AT, but £5920 is actually a C152 so slightly better than yours....with ADF, VOR, DME, ILS, Mode C, and only 5096 hours airframe. But sadly no autopilot
I would like to add that £5920 actually includes Hangerage, Insurance, including any maintenance.
Ok so lets break this down - £70 PCM standing charge (allows for insurance, maintenance, etc etc) - ok for 6 months £420 -5920 = £5500
£5500 / by 100 - £55.00 hour WET (just went up from £50.00 due to fuel costs) - we calculated on 24 ltrs fuel burn per hour not 20 as some people forget to lean (20.6 ltrs fuel burn if you lean correctly)
Fuel is currently £1.49 inc VAT (correct at time of writing) Comes in at 49.69 per hour.
It even includes oil!!!!
Seems a bit of a "deal" to me!!
ALL PRICES INCLUSIVE OF VAT
I would like to add that it is people's choices when it comes down to it and people should be aware of the actual true costs! I would like to add that with OBA you only allow for 3 hours flying per day (correct me if i'm wrong), i'm sure that there must be other restrictions with other people training at OBA which "must" limit the use of the aircraft some way or other.
I don't work for any school or club, but actually a no equity group!!! (no i dont own the aircraft either)
If you require something a little bigger we do have a C172 at £110 standing charge PCM and £70.00 per hour WET!!
P.S. I'm just telling it how it is!!!
Last edited by XL319; 25th Jun 2008 at 10:04.
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Mcgoo
The problem as I see it is that on these foums people are trying to push a personal point of veiw.
For instance "You can eat like a king in the USA for a lot less than over here" This if this statment was objective it would read " you can eat very badly in the USA for a lot less than you can over here".
Unlike most of the peope on this forum I have lived, trainned and flown for a part 121 airline in the USA and look at things a bit more objectivly.
OBA are not the cheapest it the USA but they do have a track record of coming up with the goods, I found that the cheapest operators in the USA could of most of the time NOT come up with the goods largly due to the appauling state of the aircraft (I am told that the OBA fleet is a bit on the "well worn" side to look at but the operation simply could no run if the maintenance was not being done to a high standard as reliability would suffer to a point at which the business would not be viable).
The fact of the matter is that the cost of 100 hours flying is about the same on both sides of the Atlantic in you live in the UK (may be slightly cheaper in the UK) by the time you get to 150 hours the USA is slightly cheaper if you do it all in one trip, after that the USA wins hands down on price.
The one thing to remember ith the USA is that i is not worth dealing with any one who is offering rock bottom prices, quality only will come with prices about 30% above rock bottom, It is no use getting to Florida with two weeks holiday in which to build hours only to find that the aircraft is "tech" and won't be avalable for ten days!
nh2301
I have no doubt that you can get an aircraft for roughly half the UK price but it is all the aditional costs that increase the hourly rate to about the same as the UK the other problem is finding a reputable company to rent the aircraft from, as I have said in other posts two companys in the USA failed to produce the aircraft when they had agreed to do so, the third company that I approached was very professional but charged about 25-30% more for a top rate service and I did my CPL/multi & IR with them.
As I was living in the USA at the time this was not a problem but if I had been on a two week hoiliday it would have been a disaster.
For instance "You can eat like a king in the USA for a lot less than over here" This if this statment was objective it would read " you can eat very badly in the USA for a lot less than you can over here".
Unlike most of the peope on this forum I have lived, trainned and flown for a part 121 airline in the USA and look at things a bit more objectivly.
OBA are not the cheapest it the USA but they do have a track record of coming up with the goods, I found that the cheapest operators in the USA could of most of the time NOT come up with the goods largly due to the appauling state of the aircraft (I am told that the OBA fleet is a bit on the "well worn" side to look at but the operation simply could no run if the maintenance was not being done to a high standard as reliability would suffer to a point at which the business would not be viable).
The fact of the matter is that the cost of 100 hours flying is about the same on both sides of the Atlantic in you live in the UK (may be slightly cheaper in the UK) by the time you get to 150 hours the USA is slightly cheaper if you do it all in one trip, after that the USA wins hands down on price.
The one thing to remember ith the USA is that i is not worth dealing with any one who is offering rock bottom prices, quality only will come with prices about 30% above rock bottom, It is no use getting to Florida with two weeks holiday in which to build hours only to find that the aircraft is "tech" and won't be avalable for ten days!
nh2301
I have no doubt that you can get an aircraft for roughly half the UK price but it is all the aditional costs that increase the hourly rate to about the same as the UK the other problem is finding a reputable company to rent the aircraft from, as I have said in other posts two companys in the USA failed to produce the aircraft when they had agreed to do so, the third company that I approached was very professional but charged about 25-30% more for a top rate service and I did my CPL/multi & IR with them.
As I was living in the USA at the time this was not a problem but if I had been on a two week hoiliday it would have been a disaster.
Last edited by A and C; 25th Jun 2008 at 11:54.
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A and C, I think you will find I am being objective, my first post said
"There are benefits to both ways, it's down to personal choice really"
You can't really get more objective than that!
My point is when people do these comparisons they don't do them fairly, people will quote a UK figure for eg £70 an hour and then say things like " well in the US, you have to pay for food, housing, flights, out of pocket expenses, going out, transport, etc"
In the UK these expenses will also be incurred but dont seem to get counted, on top of the landing fees etc.
I'm not trying to push a personal point of view, merely pointing out you need to work out the true cost of both methods and compare like for like.
"There are benefits to both ways, it's down to personal choice really"
You can't really get more objective than that!
My point is when people do these comparisons they don't do them fairly, people will quote a UK figure for eg £70 an hour and then say things like " well in the US, you have to pay for food, housing, flights, out of pocket expenses, going out, transport, etc"
In the UK these expenses will also be incurred but dont seem to get counted, on top of the landing fees etc.
I'm not trying to push a personal point of view, merely pointing out you need to work out the true cost of both methods and compare like for like.
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I think hour building in the UK and hour building in the US are flown differently. When I say that I mean that if you booked 100hrs in the UK you would probably fly it off over several weeks/months and may just burn holes in the sky, retracing the same routes with the odd trip outside your usual boundaries.
If you went to US, you would be going with a mindset of yes flying hours off but also having a bloody good time whilst you are over there. I think this is demonstarted here as people are enquiring about where is interesting to go. If this is the case and you actually intend to do something with your time over there and not burn hours off then a few hundred pounds difference when you inc hotels, etc wont really make any difference to you.
It doesnt to me when I go over there, which I still do despite owning a share in a very nice IFR equipped aircraft over here.
I would also add that if you were hiring a C150 then I have no doubt that the cost difference these days is going to be minimal, if you were penny watching then you may in fact end up staying this side of the Atlantic if that is all you wanted to do. However, when I go Stateside and go touring I prefer something a bit nicer than a C152 with bits hanging off it, last time I hired a brand new C172 SP with G1000 for $150/hr WET. When you venture into nice twins then the cost differential is even greater - this is when going Stateside could be more beneficial to you.
J.
If you went to US, you would be going with a mindset of yes flying hours off but also having a bloody good time whilst you are over there. I think this is demonstarted here as people are enquiring about where is interesting to go. If this is the case and you actually intend to do something with your time over there and not burn hours off then a few hundred pounds difference when you inc hotels, etc wont really make any difference to you.
It doesnt to me when I go over there, which I still do despite owning a share in a very nice IFR equipped aircraft over here.
I would also add that if you were hiring a C150 then I have no doubt that the cost difference these days is going to be minimal, if you were penny watching then you may in fact end up staying this side of the Atlantic if that is all you wanted to do. However, when I go Stateside and go touring I prefer something a bit nicer than a C152 with bits hanging off it, last time I hired a brand new C172 SP with G1000 for $150/hr WET. When you venture into nice twins then the cost differential is even greater - this is when going Stateside could be more beneficial to you.
J.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Good points about OBA
There are some great points about OBA: (1) the instructors are highly qualified Embry Riddle graduates for the most part; (2) the maintenance staff are fast and efficient; (3) there is great comradeship in the housing units.
On the negative side, AT could count on one hand how many times a "full-refund" was given to an hour-builder in the past year. Darlene believes rain, hail, or hurricanes are "acts of God" and not OBA's fault, thus the "cancellation fee." Of course, the grounding of the Liberty fleet may be an exception, the purchase clearly a poor management decision.
AT, if more time was spent addressing the concerns of past, present, and future students instead of your obsessive defense of these legitimate criticisms, you may get another 18 years out of OBA.
On the negative side, AT could count on one hand how many times a "full-refund" was given to an hour-builder in the past year. Darlene believes rain, hail, or hurricanes are "acts of God" and not OBA's fault, thus the "cancellation fee." Of course, the grounding of the Liberty fleet may be an exception, the purchase clearly a poor management decision.
AT, if more time was spent addressing the concerns of past, present, and future students instead of your obsessive defense of these legitimate criticisms, you may get another 18 years out of OBA.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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The fact of the matter is that the cost of 100 hours flying is about the same on both sides of the Atlantic in you live in the UK (may be slightly cheaper in the UK)
Include airport fees, gas to the airport, etc...
I'm sure you're very far from beating us on pricing!
I can acertain you that our pilots save at least 2K over what you are charging for 100 hours.
Solution:
You should try to change your line of marketing and I'm gonna help you on that, what I expect in return is for you to stop posting non-sense about uk being cheaper, because you know it's not.
Now, you have a clear advantage over US hour building but you are not using it. People don't need to take leave to hire your airplanes. People need to take leave to head to the US. Now focus on that and no one will dispute it, you can go on doing your marketing on this website and everyone will coexist peacefully. If I get requests from guys who can't take leave I can forward them to you (that's how you create partnerships!)
Try to make friends of your competitors.
Take example on the airlines and their alliances.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Not a bad place at all for doing hour building, I did 100hrs there myself. I did not get all my hrs done in the time I went for, but there was no trouble in going back out and finishing them off. I would not take much notice of the pic's in the link, the student accom has got done up and is alot better than in the pic's also the bar is not that bad and the cook (Barbie) is the niceist person you will meet as is most of the staff at OBA just keep your nose clean and they will do there best for you. Do check out JTs place it is amazing, just keep an eye out for some very high mast's around the place 
.
.
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Facts only on OBA
Do not get the impression that I want to OBA bash... Many students have spent their life savings learning to fly successfully at OBA. Discussing old aircraft, few instructors, weather factors, creative accounting, and comparison shopping does not constitute bashing OBA.
You must be an informed consumer and weigh all the factors before you spend nearly $10.000US for a dream. OBA will keep your money if you do not complete your flying package. If you run out of time because of weather or anything, they will recalculate at full retail your transportation, housing, flying hours, and testing which will eat up any money remaining on your flying package. These facts are not in dispute by any of the readers or OBA.
The more we all talk about FTO's that service foriegn students who have very little recourse once they return to their country of origin, the more we will keep the unsavory characters who prey on the dream out of the business. And, that comment is not directed to OBA.
You must be an informed consumer and weigh all the factors before you spend nearly $10.000US for a dream. OBA will keep your money if you do not complete your flying package. If you run out of time because of weather or anything, they will recalculate at full retail your transportation, housing, flying hours, and testing which will eat up any money remaining on your flying package. These facts are not in dispute by any of the readers or OBA.
The more we all talk about FTO's that service foriegn students who have very little recourse once they return to their country of origin, the more we will keep the unsavory characters who prey on the dream out of the business. And, that comment is not directed to OBA.