Advice on my path please??
Join Date: Jun 2006
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JohnGV,
I can't help regarding Canadian licenses, which is what you'll need to work there.
In Europe, you could do aerial photo work in VFR conditions with just a CPL. It's probably the same in Canada and definitely so in the US.
I guess the main reason everyone writes about taking it further is because they probably think most people won't be satisfied with that sort of flying job for very long.
To get accurate advice, you probably need to be very specific about the sort of jobs you seek and where you plan to work as well as where you have the right to live and work. Maybe you've done that piecemeal, but not everyone reads the thread from start to finish. How about a brief recap?
I can't help regarding Canadian licenses, which is what you'll need to work there.
In Europe, you could do aerial photo work in VFR conditions with just a CPL. It's probably the same in Canada and definitely so in the US.
I guess the main reason everyone writes about taking it further is because they probably think most people won't be satisfied with that sort of flying job for very long.
To get accurate advice, you probably need to be very specific about the sort of jobs you seek and where you plan to work as well as where you have the right to live and work. Maybe you've done that piecemeal, but not everyone reads the thread from start to finish. How about a brief recap?
Join Date: Apr 2007
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right i think i know where ur getting yourself confused.
lets talk about the UK.
inorder to fly for money in the UK you MUST have a CPL
inorder to commence your CPL you MUST have done and passed your ATPL ground school and have 150 hours total time.
if you are sure that you do not want to get an IR you can just do the CPL exams. if you want to do the IR as well you will need to do the whole fATPL. now dont ask me what the difference is. all i know is that just for the CPL its a bit easier or a few less exams. i dont know the full difference as im going into passanger flying which i need an IR for.
to make sure that your fATPLs do not expire you MUST finish you CPL AND IR before the 3 years are up (ofcourse if you only want to go into VFR flying dont worry abt the IR).
saying that you are going to restrict yourself to what jobs you can do if you do not have an IR. there are probably jobs out there but there is no money in it and there is very very limited stuff you can do. another thing you can think of is go into instructing as you can get a job the same day you pass your FI course. but again in order to progress to make some good money in that you will need to teach the ME and then IR once you get the experiance. needless to say you will have to have the qualifications before hand...
now if you decide to to do your training in canada they will have different training requirments. this may be why you are getting conflicting info.
an ICAO licence will be accepted back in the UK but you will not be able to use the privilages of your CPL and IR from another country in the UK unless that country is a member of the JAA (canada is not). you will have to do the CPL and IR in the UK again if you wish to work here at a later date. you may be able to get a few hours knocked off the minimum you need for the course but thats it if you have a different countrys rating.
an ICAO licence will only allow you to fly in another ICAO state, in the states aircraft within the state only. for exaple, you will not be able to have a canadian licence and fly a UK aircraft to france, but you will be able to fly a UK aircraft around the UK.
lets talk about the UK.
inorder to fly for money in the UK you MUST have a CPL
inorder to commence your CPL you MUST have done and passed your ATPL ground school and have 150 hours total time.
if you are sure that you do not want to get an IR you can just do the CPL exams. if you want to do the IR as well you will need to do the whole fATPL. now dont ask me what the difference is. all i know is that just for the CPL its a bit easier or a few less exams. i dont know the full difference as im going into passanger flying which i need an IR for.
to make sure that your fATPLs do not expire you MUST finish you CPL AND IR before the 3 years are up (ofcourse if you only want to go into VFR flying dont worry abt the IR).
saying that you are going to restrict yourself to what jobs you can do if you do not have an IR. there are probably jobs out there but there is no money in it and there is very very limited stuff you can do. another thing you can think of is go into instructing as you can get a job the same day you pass your FI course. but again in order to progress to make some good money in that you will need to teach the ME and then IR once you get the experiance. needless to say you will have to have the qualifications before hand...
now if you decide to to do your training in canada they will have different training requirments. this may be why you are getting conflicting info.
an ICAO licence will be accepted back in the UK but you will not be able to use the privilages of your CPL and IR from another country in the UK unless that country is a member of the JAA (canada is not). you will have to do the CPL and IR in the UK again if you wish to work here at a later date. you may be able to get a few hours knocked off the minimum you need for the course but thats it if you have a different countrys rating.
an ICAO licence will only allow you to fly in another ICAO state, in the states aircraft within the state only. for exaple, you will not be able to have a canadian licence and fly a UK aircraft to france, but you will be able to fly a UK aircraft around the UK.
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Nashers,
Thankyou, thankyou thankyou!
That has made it al so clear! I sense i was being a bit simple! but you have helped me understand it in my novice language.
So, It really is (to be honest) so much better to do the whole ATPL and the ME IR in the long run.
Sheesh - its so much money, and i really am so concerned about being able to raise that sort of capital - let alone within 3 years!!
It seems like, once i have obtained my PPL I'm going to have to consider taking out some sort of loan so i have no restrictions on me being able to complete in the set time. The UK, by far seems the best place to continue my training after my PPL.
Thanks everyone, I feel i understand it all so much better,
Special thanks to Nashers and Adios - you help has been invaluable to me and you really have helped to steer me in the right train of thought.
Thanks for being so patient!
JohnGV
Thankyou, thankyou thankyou!
That has made it al so clear! I sense i was being a bit simple! but you have helped me understand it in my novice language.
So, It really is (to be honest) so much better to do the whole ATPL and the ME IR in the long run.
Sheesh - its so much money, and i really am so concerned about being able to raise that sort of capital - let alone within 3 years!!
It seems like, once i have obtained my PPL I'm going to have to consider taking out some sort of loan so i have no restrictions on me being able to complete in the set time. The UK, by far seems the best place to continue my training after my PPL.
Thanks everyone, I feel i understand it all so much better,
Special thanks to Nashers and Adios - you help has been invaluable to me and you really have helped to steer me in the right train of thought.
Thanks for being so patient!
JohnGV
Join Date: Apr 2007
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what you can do is do your ppl in an ICAO state and much of your hours building there to make it cheaper. leezyjet made a post earlier about doing that. then come here and do the rest of your training here. once you get your CPL it is a new licence so you can chuck the ICAO ppl in the bin as you can do everything on the CPL. the rest of the training is then based on your UK CPL.
good luck with your training. just make sure that you only start when you know you can finish it or you will end up having to do the ATPLs again if they expire.
good luck with your training. just make sure that you only start when you know you can finish it or you will end up having to do the ATPLs again if they expire.
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JohnGV,
Two ways you can go in UK/Europe:
If you just want a single engine CPL:
PPL, CPL theory (I think 9 exams), 150 hours, CPL course, seek work (But you won't yet have enough hours to be insurable under most employers' policies). If you decide later to add an IR, then you must do IR theory (not sure how many exams, but quite a few).
If you opt for fATPL:
PPL, ATPL theory (14 exams), 150 hours, CPL, ME, IR, MCC = frozen ATPL.
For ATPL theory, you get 18 months from first exam to last exam. From last ATPL theory exam, you get three years to pass the IR.
A previous poster has written that the total exams if you do CPL theory and later IR theory is more than 14, hence the logic to just do ATPL theory to start with. The theory is inexpensive compared to the flying, but once you complete it, the 3 year clock is running for IR completion. If you stop the flight training at SE or ME CPL, get the job you want, decide you love it and can do it for life and survive on the low pay, then you can ditch the IR completion. You could easily have 1.5 years or so working or looking for work in which to decide whether to complete the IR or not. If the 3 year clock runs out on IR completion, you would have to do either ATPL theory or IR theory exams over again if you want the IR later.
I don't think there is a clock for MCC completion after the IR.
Two ways you can go in UK/Europe:
If you just want a single engine CPL:
PPL, CPL theory (I think 9 exams), 150 hours, CPL course, seek work (But you won't yet have enough hours to be insurable under most employers' policies). If you decide later to add an IR, then you must do IR theory (not sure how many exams, but quite a few).
If you opt for fATPL:
PPL, ATPL theory (14 exams), 150 hours, CPL, ME, IR, MCC = frozen ATPL.
For ATPL theory, you get 18 months from first exam to last exam. From last ATPL theory exam, you get three years to pass the IR.
A previous poster has written that the total exams if you do CPL theory and later IR theory is more than 14, hence the logic to just do ATPL theory to start with. The theory is inexpensive compared to the flying, but once you complete it, the 3 year clock is running for IR completion. If you stop the flight training at SE or ME CPL, get the job you want, decide you love it and can do it for life and survive on the low pay, then you can ditch the IR completion. You could easily have 1.5 years or so working or looking for work in which to decide whether to complete the IR or not. If the 3 year clock runs out on IR completion, you would have to do either ATPL theory or IR theory exams over again if you want the IR later.
I don't think there is a clock for MCC completion after the IR.
