OAT/NetJets Europe Stage 2
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Yes I understand that but the UK holding is not where the airline actually has its management based so taxes are paid in Portugal.
"a lot" is not enough to pay taxes in the UK.
And yes, even the UK contracts are paying their taxes in Portugal...
What you guys are claiming here is that the UK can decide to make 20K tax-free while taxes are paid in Portugal...what a mess of non-sense.
You too Adios, why don't you bring your name and address forward with a guarrantee statement?
I also suggest you grow up a bit and stop throwing critics at me.
I know what this industry is about way better than you. There's 3 generations of pilots in my family and I've grown up in an airport myself.
I know that you're frustrated because you can't prove me wrong but stay polite or quit.
I apologize to the candidates on this forum, but I guess it gives you a good idea of the kind of questions you should be asking them. Don't forget that you are the customer.
"a lot" is not enough to pay taxes in the UK.
And yes, even the UK contracts are paying their taxes in Portugal...
What you guys are claiming here is that the UK can decide to make 20K tax-free while taxes are paid in Portugal...what a mess of non-sense.
You too Adios, why don't you bring your name and address forward with a guarrantee statement?
I also suggest you grow up a bit and stop throwing critics at me.
I know what this industry is about way better than you. There's 3 generations of pilots in my family and I've grown up in an airport myself.
I know that you're frustrated because you can't prove me wrong but stay polite or quit.
I apologize to the candidates on this forum, but I guess it gives you a good idea of the kind of questions you should be asking them. Don't forget that you are the customer.
Last edited by nich-av; 22nd Apr 2008 at 21:41.
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Nich-av,
Nobody can prove you wrong when you're never willing to admit that you are on even the smallest of points, which is pretty apparent.
Pilots working for a UK company that subs them out to NJE on a contract basis are not subject to Portuguese income tax. Neither are the United Airlines ticket agents at Heathrow subject to US income tax. It's really pretty simple.
It kind of goes without saying that the UK tax relief is only available to those who live in the UK. I suspect the reason you can't get your head around it is that you assume the Cadet FOs can live anywhere.
Nobody can prove you wrong when you're never willing to admit that you are on even the smallest of points, which is pretty apparent.
Pilots working for a UK company that subs them out to NJE on a contract basis are not subject to Portuguese income tax. Neither are the United Airlines ticket agents at Heathrow subject to US income tax. It's really pretty simple.
It kind of goes without saying that the UK tax relief is only available to those who live in the UK. I suspect the reason you can't get your head around it is that you assume the Cadet FOs can live anywhere.
Last edited by Adios; 22nd Apr 2008 at 22:45.
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Hello guys!!
Well, I think we're getting a little away from the original subject of the thread!!
Nichibei, in Europe, when you reside in a country, you pay taxes in the country where you declared the residency, and that's it!
This is right in Europe and this is the way it is almost everywhere on earth! You can't be asked to pay taxes to the country where the company you're working for has its HQ, thats non sense.
(And this is the same about social insurance.)
Well, I think we're getting a little away from the original subject of the thread!!
Nichibei, in Europe, when you reside in a country, you pay taxes in the country where you declared the residency, and that's it!
This is right in Europe and this is the way it is almost everywhere on earth! You can't be asked to pay taxes to the country where the company you're working for has its HQ, thats non sense.
(And this is the same about social insurance.)
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No Alann it is not.
I'm living in Europe, don't worry.
That rule is true for anyone except crew working on board aircraft and ships.
I'll find you the exact law article, don't worry, give me 10 minutes.
I'm living in Europe, don't worry.
That rule is true for anyone except crew working on board aircraft and ships.
I'll find you the exact law article, don't worry, give me 10 minutes.
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Let's settle this the easy way. I concede. Nich-av is right on all points. He is 100% correct. OAA and NetJets are lying and the very first cadet who realizes it once he finishes his course is going to sue them and then the truth all will come out.
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Nich,
You [somewhat unbelievably, given your previous 100% success rate on understanding what people are saying] are missing my point.
No, of course I'm not prepared to give a personal guarantee to anyone....the point is that I'm happy to say "I don't know enough to make realistic comments on it, hence I won't" when I'm out of my depth. This is something you CLEARLY can't/won't do. Tell you what though, are YOU prepared to offer the first 6 grads off the Netjets scheme double their tax saving per person over the first year if you're proven wrong? [bizarre concept, I know...but you know it might just be possible]
In this thread alone you have made out that you have a full complete and unassailable understanding of Europe wide employment legislation, tax law, the innate workings of OAA, NJE, the full workings of the European banking system, currency markets and fluctuations, a full understanding of the contract that these guys and gals will sign and probably nuclear physics as well. If this truly was the case, then believe me, NASA would be paying you a huge sum of money right now...but it seems they're not. You have been told by people who are in a better position - or those who have been advised by the relevant professionals- to know than you, that you are wrong, yet still you persist in trying to convince the world, in the face of overwhelming odds that you are right.
You hang your credibility on the back of working for an hour building operation and being a mod student and - latterly - the fact that you have three generations of aviators in your family. Whoop de do. What do you know of my background that makes you so sure that I know nothing? I'll give you a clue, you have [again suprisingly given your hitherto 100% success rate in getting things right] NO idea about who I am, what I have done with my life or my family background. Yet you presume, despite knowing nothing of me, that you are right and I am wrong....interesting... What if, I don't know, I'd been working in the banking industry for 10 odd years...might I know something about banking then? What if I'd seen the Netjets contract....oooh, crazy notion! Let's just suppose I have plenty of aviators in my family, plenty of friends who are professional aviators and even suppose my WIFES family are aviators as well....but you're right...that couldn't be the case could it....no-one could know better or have a different but correct perspective than you on any single subject....
Has it not occured to you that perhaps, just perhaps, some of the 40 odd people now on the Netjets scheme might just have thought to check out some of this stuff and found it to be ok....like the guy who went to Oxford Uni who is on the course....or the several from Loughborough...one of the better universitys in the UK. Or maybe one of the 3 students with Masters degrees that I know of who are on the scheme...I mean they're clearly as thick as the proverbial.
Still, I suspect Adios is right, you won't ever concede even partial incorrectness even if Professor Stephen Hawking worked it out from first principles for you. That's right Nich, the sky is green and grass is purple...I give in...you're right....
You [somewhat unbelievably, given your previous 100% success rate on understanding what people are saying] are missing my point.
No, of course I'm not prepared to give a personal guarantee to anyone....the point is that I'm happy to say "I don't know enough to make realistic comments on it, hence I won't" when I'm out of my depth. This is something you CLEARLY can't/won't do. Tell you what though, are YOU prepared to offer the first 6 grads off the Netjets scheme double their tax saving per person over the first year if you're proven wrong? [bizarre concept, I know...but you know it might just be possible]
In this thread alone you have made out that you have a full complete and unassailable understanding of Europe wide employment legislation, tax law, the innate workings of OAA, NJE, the full workings of the European banking system, currency markets and fluctuations, a full understanding of the contract that these guys and gals will sign and probably nuclear physics as well. If this truly was the case, then believe me, NASA would be paying you a huge sum of money right now...but it seems they're not. You have been told by people who are in a better position - or those who have been advised by the relevant professionals- to know than you, that you are wrong, yet still you persist in trying to convince the world, in the face of overwhelming odds that you are right.
You hang your credibility on the back of working for an hour building operation and being a mod student and - latterly - the fact that you have three generations of aviators in your family. Whoop de do. What do you know of my background that makes you so sure that I know nothing? I'll give you a clue, you have [again suprisingly given your hitherto 100% success rate in getting things right] NO idea about who I am, what I have done with my life or my family background. Yet you presume, despite knowing nothing of me, that you are right and I am wrong....interesting... What if, I don't know, I'd been working in the banking industry for 10 odd years...might I know something about banking then? What if I'd seen the Netjets contract....oooh, crazy notion! Let's just suppose I have plenty of aviators in my family, plenty of friends who are professional aviators and even suppose my WIFES family are aviators as well....but you're right...that couldn't be the case could it....no-one could know better or have a different but correct perspective than you on any single subject....
Has it not occured to you that perhaps, just perhaps, some of the 40 odd people now on the Netjets scheme might just have thought to check out some of this stuff and found it to be ok....like the guy who went to Oxford Uni who is on the course....or the several from Loughborough...one of the better universitys in the UK. Or maybe one of the 3 students with Masters degrees that I know of who are on the scheme...I mean they're clearly as thick as the proverbial.
Still, I suspect Adios is right, you won't ever concede even partial incorrectness even if Professor Stephen Hawking worked it out from first principles for you. That's right Nich, the sky is green and grass is purple...I give in...you're right....
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Perhaps the practicioners know about their own legislation and therefore relevant treatment of the Cadets' tax affairs?
"For cadet entry First Officers resident in the UK on entry into the airline, we have been advised by the Inland Revenue that course training cost repayment may be from gross salary i.e. before tax. For cadets resident outside of the UK during the repayment period the deductions will be made from net salary i.e. after tax."
"For cadet entry First Officers resident in the UK on entry into the airline, we have been advised by the Inland Revenue that course training cost repayment may be from gross salary i.e. before tax. For cadets resident outside of the UK during the repayment period the deductions will be made from net salary i.e. after tax."
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Oh wow I'm impressed. 
You're contesting the most obvious regulation of this industry by saying that an airline crew member is not taxed in the country where the airline AOC is located. Ok fair enough. When there's doubt, there are tax double taxation treaties that all say the same thing:
http://www.fifoost.org/allgemein/div...003/node20.php
1. Subject to the provisions of Articles 16, 18 and 19, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an em- ployment shall be taxable only in that State unless the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State. If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other State.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment exercised in the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State if:
a) the recipient is present in the other State for a period or periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in any twelve month period commencing or ending in the fiscal year concerned, and
b) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of the other State, and
c) the remuneration is not borne by a permanent establishment which the employer has in the other State.
3. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions of this Article, remuneration derived in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic, or aboard a boat engaged in inland waterways transport, may be taxed in the Contracting State in which the place of effective management of the enterprise is situated.
Let's see what explanation OAA provides:
very convincing for a senior training advisor...
then I found this:
Now I understand what they're teaching at OAA..."how to become a philosopher for dummies"...that explains the higher pricing.
http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewto...887d3893199f4c
Oh and the answer is 32920€ by the way...
Thanks for the funny talk, I'm not waisting my time any longer.
You're contesting the most obvious regulation of this industry by saying that an airline crew member is not taxed in the country where the airline AOC is located. Ok fair enough. When there's doubt, there are tax double taxation treaties that all say the same thing:
http://www.fifoost.org/allgemein/div...003/node20.php
1. Subject to the provisions of Articles 16, 18 and 19, salaries, wages and other similar remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an em- ployment shall be taxable only in that State unless the employment is exercised in the other Contracting State. If the employment is so exercised, such remuneration as is derived therefrom may be taxed in that other State.
2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, remuneration derived by a resident of a Contracting State in respect of an employment exercised in the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State if:
a) the recipient is present in the other State for a period or periods not exceeding in the aggregate 183 days in any twelve month period commencing or ending in the fiscal year concerned, and
b) the remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who is not a resident of the other State, and
c) the remuneration is not borne by a permanent establishment which the employer has in the other State.
3. Notwithstanding the preceding provisions of this Article, remuneration derived in respect of an employment exercised aboard a ship or aircraft operated in international traffic, or aboard a boat engaged in inland waterways transport, may be taxed in the Contracting State in which the place of effective management of the enterprise is situated.
Let's see what explanation OAA provides:
Richard,
I don't know the finer details of how NetJets set the ROTE up, but the £67,500 is eligible and loan interest should be as well.
I don't know the finer details of how NetJets set the ROTE up, but the £67,500 is eligible and loan interest should be as well.
then I found this:
€20,000+€12,460+€460=€12,880 non taxable living expenses
http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewto...887d3893199f4c
Oh and the answer is 32920€ by the way...
Thanks for the funny talk, I'm not waisting my time any longer.
Last edited by nich-av; 23rd Apr 2008 at 06:08.
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I did make that suggestion in an earlier post!
anyone have an assessment date for 30th may? any good bits of advice that no1 was willing to put on the oat forum (there must be!)
anyone have an assessment date for 30th may? any good bits of advice that no1 was willing to put on the oat forum (there must be!)
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Nich Av.
Just got back from tour.
NetJets Europe senior management and guidance is based in London.
NetJets Europe operational base in Lisbon.
Personally, I am not overly sure what your interest is in all of this. You're not in Europe and you seem to be a student for a flying school. If I were you, I'd get on with your own career and stop hijacking threads for your own means.
Just got back from tour.
NetJets Europe senior management and guidance is based in London.
NetJets Europe operational base in Lisbon.
Personally, I am not overly sure what your interest is in all of this. You're not in Europe and you seem to be a student for a flying school. If I were you, I'd get on with your own career and stop hijacking threads for your own means.
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Actually Redsnail, Nich-av has written that he works for an FTO in some sort of Business Development position wherein he is negotiating to convince Asian airlines to send their cadets to his company.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Well, the last time I looked, NetJets Europe isn't an asian airline...
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It's probably fortunate the NetJets is not Asian and Nich has got to hope that none of his potential clients read this site as his work here is not particularly conducive to 'business development'.
In my professional experience of exactly such a role, you would typically want to know about your client - a simple premise clearly lacking in his rather bizarre attack on NetJets Europe and their partnered (rival ... ah starting to understand the vitriol now) FTO.
In my professional experience of exactly such a role, you would typically want to know about your client - a simple premise clearly lacking in his rather bizarre attack on NetJets Europe and their partnered (rival ... ah starting to understand the vitriol now) FTO.
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Nich Av, cast your mind back to 13 April when I commented on another thread that;
to which you responded;
In view of the numerous posts above, could you clarify? 
on nearly every thread you apprear on you seem to manage to upset someone, who generally tells you that you have no idea what you are talking about
There is no such trend seen
