Wannabe questions...
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Wannabe questions...
Ohh, that's an ominous thread title if I ever saw one. Apologies right at the start if I'm repeating questions that have been asked before. Despite what some might think, I have been reading the forums for a few days now, and the info provided has been both invaluable and interesting ... but I have a few questions 
I've always wanted to be a pilot, and now I have the opportunity to see things through ... well, I will in about a years time that is!
I'll have around £35,000 saved in my bank account, and no wife, family or mortgage to worry about. I've been looking at all kinds of websites for the last few weeks and found lots, which is actually not that handy - it's information overload.
I've seen sites based in Canada that do full CPL with multi + IFR for as little as CAD$33,000 (approx £16,500 UK), and the cheapest UK site I've seen is £25-£30k+ (with realistic numbers closer to £35+). I haven't factored other costs like accommodation, living expenses, travelling costs and whatnot, but the Canadian/North American option seems a LOT cheaper.
I was hoping someone here could give me advice, and hopefully a small guide on how to go about getting this done. I realise that a Canadian CPL isn't sufficient to fly in the UK, but I don't actually mind flying in Canada/North America anyway, and I understand that I'll need to sit a JAA/JAR conversion - how much does this usually cost and what is the time effort involved? How restrictive would it be to just have the Canadian equiv of a CPL with multi + IR but none of the Europe stuff?
For information, I don't particularly want to fly an airline per say, but rather flying bush flights to nowhere or cargo to far flung places sounds a lot more attractive (even if the pay is a lot worse). I'm currently working in the Antarctic on a British research base, so I wont be able to do anything in person for a while yet, and the internet is limited
Also, I have a few LASORS books here (Human Factors and technical), is there any way I can get electronic versions of these books? I'm willing to pay of course
Thanks in advance!
I've always wanted to be a pilot, and now I have the opportunity to see things through ... well, I will in about a years time that is!
I'll have around £35,000 saved in my bank account, and no wife, family or mortgage to worry about. I've been looking at all kinds of websites for the last few weeks and found lots, which is actually not that handy - it's information overload.
I've seen sites based in Canada that do full CPL with multi + IFR for as little as CAD$33,000 (approx £16,500 UK), and the cheapest UK site I've seen is £25-£30k+ (with realistic numbers closer to £35+). I haven't factored other costs like accommodation, living expenses, travelling costs and whatnot, but the Canadian/North American option seems a LOT cheaper.
I was hoping someone here could give me advice, and hopefully a small guide on how to go about getting this done. I realise that a Canadian CPL isn't sufficient to fly in the UK, but I don't actually mind flying in Canada/North America anyway, and I understand that I'll need to sit a JAA/JAR conversion - how much does this usually cost and what is the time effort involved? How restrictive would it be to just have the Canadian equiv of a CPL with multi + IR but none of the Europe stuff?
For information, I don't particularly want to fly an airline per say, but rather flying bush flights to nowhere or cargo to far flung places sounds a lot more attractive (even if the pay is a lot worse). I'm currently working in the Antarctic on a British research base, so I wont be able to do anything in person for a while yet, and the internet is limited
Also, I have a few LASORS books here (Human Factors and technical), is there any way I can get electronic versions of these books? I'm willing to pay of course
Thanks in advance!
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Howdy,
Well do you have the right to live and work in canada/USA? if not then your hardly gonna be offered a job over there.
Also the chances of someone with 250hours fATPL getting a job in the US is slim to none as the american system works a little differntly to ours, I think most airline pilots in the US are ex instructors as most us airlines require hours.
As i have said to another guy on the forums, be carefull with schools promising you alot for not much wonga as they are often a little under par and often not certified training organisations,
Check the CAA website for the list of approved schools if you want a JAA licence, and i strongly suggest visiting each and every school you are interested in, talk to students there, ask for the school to provide testimonials etc.
research very carefully.
My 2pence worth
Nick
Well do you have the right to live and work in canada/USA? if not then your hardly gonna be offered a job over there.
Also the chances of someone with 250hours fATPL getting a job in the US is slim to none as the american system works a little differntly to ours, I think most airline pilots in the US are ex instructors as most us airlines require hours.
As i have said to another guy on the forums, be carefull with schools promising you alot for not much wonga as they are often a little under par and often not certified training organisations,
Check the CAA website for the list of approved schools if you want a JAA licence, and i strongly suggest visiting each and every school you are interested in, talk to students there, ask for the school to provide testimonials etc.
research very carefully.
My 2pence worth
Nick
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I'm just looking at options at the moment as I have plenty of time. Do I use the money I've saved to get a license in Candada/US, or do I borrow another £20k and do it in the UK ...
Needless to say the not-borrowing option is more attractive, but I don't want to go down that route unless I know there will be some opportunities. What's the point in getting a CPL when I wont be able to do what I want with it. I figured once I get the actual hard work out of the way, then getting a job is the relative easy part (I bet I'm not the first, or the last to ever think that). Once I get the cert then I'd build my hours any way possible - be it instructing, bush flying etc
The £35k figure is the very cheapest option I've heard, with most estimates £45k and above.
My end goal (eventually ... years from now) is to fly the Antarctic - it's just that getting there is very, very difficult.
Needless to say the not-borrowing option is more attractive, but I don't want to go down that route unless I know there will be some opportunities. What's the point in getting a CPL when I wont be able to do what I want with it. I figured once I get the actual hard work out of the way, then getting a job is the relative easy part (I bet I'm not the first, or the last to ever think that). Once I get the cert then I'd build my hours any way possible - be it instructing, bush flying etc
The £35k figure is the very cheapest option I've heard, with most estimates £45k and above.
My end goal (eventually ... years from now) is to fly the Antarctic - it's just that getting there is very, very difficult.
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PPL training
Hii, a number of questions actually,
1. Once you have obtained a PPL, must you keep up the hours every month or something? Im not sure, though could someone just elaborate a bit on after obtaining a licence and maintaing that?
2. PPL/IR .. or .. CPL/IR .. are they much different and is one better than the other for reasons like employment or.. whatever?
thankss Cozza
1. Once you have obtained a PPL, must you keep up the hours every month or something? Im not sure, though could someone just elaborate a bit on after obtaining a licence and maintaing that?
2. PPL/IR .. or .. CPL/IR .. are they much different and is one better than the other for reasons like employment or.. whatever?
thankss Cozza
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Cozza,
Obvously safety wise fly as often as possible, however your PPL licence is valid for five years your class rating for two to renew your class rating you must either have
1) flown 12 hrs in the preceeding 12 months before renewal including 1hr with an instructor
or
2) fly a LPC (Licence proficiency check) with an examiner.
If your class rating lapses you still have a valid licence but you wont be able to excercise the privaleges of the lapsed rating.
The renewal of the licence is a paper work excercise at the caa.
on top of this most insurance companies and clubs insist on a 28 day check with an instructor if you havent flown for 28 days or more.
With a PPL/IR you cant be paid for flying in fact you must contribute an equal share of the cost of the flight if you want to earn money from flying its a CPL/IR you need.
Get yourself a copy of Lassors all you ever need to know is in there, some nice light bedtime reading!!!!
Obvously safety wise fly as often as possible, however your PPL licence is valid for five years your class rating for two to renew your class rating you must either have
1) flown 12 hrs in the preceeding 12 months before renewal including 1hr with an instructor
or
2) fly a LPC (Licence proficiency check) with an examiner.
If your class rating lapses you still have a valid licence but you wont be able to excercise the privaleges of the lapsed rating.
The renewal of the licence is a paper work excercise at the caa.
on top of this most insurance companies and clubs insist on a 28 day check with an instructor if you havent flown for 28 days or more.
With a PPL/IR you cant be paid for flying in fact you must contribute an equal share of the cost of the flight if you want to earn money from flying its a CPL/IR you need.
Get yourself a copy of Lassors all you ever need to know is in there, some nice light bedtime reading!!!!
Last edited by Halfwayback; 20th Feb 2008 at 10:40. Reason: Typo
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Other Licenses
Hi again, just another few questions!
1. Is a CPL/IR the same as a ME/IR? or will it get you to the same places?
2. Will you need both of these to qualify for a Airline Pilot?
3. Is fATPL all theory work? Or will it require some flying hours?
And i think thats it! Please could you also elaborate on each answer so i fully understand
.
Thanks
1. Is a CPL/IR the same as a ME/IR? or will it get you to the same places?
2. Will you need both of these to qualify for a Airline Pilot?
3. Is fATPL all theory work? Or will it require some flying hours?
And i think thats it! Please could you also elaborate on each answer so i fully understand
. Thanks
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Cozza to answer your questions:
1. Is a CPL/IR the same as a ME/IR? or will it get you to the same places?
The CPL is the Commercial Pilots Licence - which you must have to be paid to fly. The IR is the Instrument Rating which you must have to fly in Class A airspace. The IR can be taken in a multi engine (ME) or single engine (SE) aircraft. For commercial work you'd be expected to have done it on a ME. Also to anticipate something else you might hear for the IR. It can also be Single Pilot Operation (SPA) or Multi Pilot Operation (MPA). When you do your training in piston props you are effectively a single pilot operation. When you fly larger aircraft that need two crew you are MPA. Everyone gets the SPA IR first then the type rating test for the big aircraft includes an MPA IR.
2. Will you need both of these to qualify for a Airline Pilot?
see above
3. Is fATPL all theory work? Or will it require some flying hours?
fATPL is an informal description of someone who has CPL/IR(ME) and has passed all 14 of the ATPL theory exams. To get an ATPL that person will need 1500 hours TT, 250 hours P1, 100 hours night, 75 hours IFR, 200 hours NAV, 500 hours MPA I think (check this in LASORS I'm going from memory) and to take a skill test that includes a raw data ILS - which we work into the next available 6 monthly sim check after amassing the requisite hours.
Cheers,
Silent Badger
1. Is a CPL/IR the same as a ME/IR? or will it get you to the same places?
The CPL is the Commercial Pilots Licence - which you must have to be paid to fly. The IR is the Instrument Rating which you must have to fly in Class A airspace. The IR can be taken in a multi engine (ME) or single engine (SE) aircraft. For commercial work you'd be expected to have done it on a ME. Also to anticipate something else you might hear for the IR. It can also be Single Pilot Operation (SPA) or Multi Pilot Operation (MPA). When you do your training in piston props you are effectively a single pilot operation. When you fly larger aircraft that need two crew you are MPA. Everyone gets the SPA IR first then the type rating test for the big aircraft includes an MPA IR.
2. Will you need both of these to qualify for a Airline Pilot?
see above
3. Is fATPL all theory work? Or will it require some flying hours?
fATPL is an informal description of someone who has CPL/IR(ME) and has passed all 14 of the ATPL theory exams. To get an ATPL that person will need 1500 hours TT, 250 hours P1, 100 hours night, 75 hours IFR, 200 hours NAV, 500 hours MPA I think (check this in LASORS I'm going from memory) and to take a skill test that includes a raw data ILS - which we work into the next available 6 monthly sim check after amassing the requisite hours.
Cheers,
Silent Badger
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Teeks
Having done that for two years and now with 15,000 hours commercial hours in a UK Major my advice to you is probably to go down the least expensive route you can. I say this because of your preference to fly in the bush.
However having done that you may find your preferences change with time and you may wish to fly within an airline. My experience is that for every pilot who joins an airline from a bush flying background there are five that join straight in from a FTO, such as Oxford, with a Frozen ATPL.
If you look at the threads here you will see that you are indeed not the only person to think that. However the reality is that the pilot job market, and aviation in general, is very cyclical. Being very general, when the airlines are recruiting then they suck in the experienced pilots from air taxi, night freight and the flying instructors and this allows replacement from below. Those are the jobs you will be looking at for your first job but obviously if there is no recruitment at the top it leaves meagre pickings at the lower end of the food chain!
Yes there is a huge demand for pilots globally AT PRESENT but that can change very rapidly. You could be well placed to take advantage of the cyclical movement because I presume you will be in the Far South until the end of the season (overwintering?) and then you will start your training. By the time you hit the job market it should be starting to lift again but that is crystal ball stuff!
Best of luck - whichever way you go!
HWB
My end goal (eventually ... years from now) is to fly the Antarctic
However having done that you may find your preferences change with time and you may wish to fly within an airline. My experience is that for every pilot who joins an airline from a bush flying background there are five that join straight in from a FTO, such as Oxford, with a Frozen ATPL.
then getting a job is the relative easy part
Yes there is a huge demand for pilots globally AT PRESENT but that can change very rapidly. You could be well placed to take advantage of the cyclical movement because I presume you will be in the Far South until the end of the season (overwintering?) and then you will start your training. By the time you hit the job market it should be starting to lift again but that is crystal ball stuff!
Best of luck - whichever way you go!
HWB
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HWB, cheers for the info - which program were you involved with when down here?
You echo pretty much what I've been thinking regarding the cheapest option. Is there any need to get the best quals if they're not really needed for the type of work I want to do. I'd rather get a relatively cheap ICAO and then earn the hours than get an JAA/CPL and forced to work with an airline just to repay the loans I'll be forced to get.
I'm about to start my second winter at Halley on the Brunt. Are you familiar with our little base at all? Our resident TwinOtter left a few days ago - much to the relief of a certain pilot Mark Beasley (from BFTC), who was worried he'd be stuck here for a few more weeks due to bad weather!
You echo pretty much what I've been thinking regarding the cheapest option. Is there any need to get the best quals if they're not really needed for the type of work I want to do. I'd rather get a relatively cheap ICAO and then earn the hours than get an JAA/CPL and forced to work with an airline just to repay the loans I'll be forced to get.
I'm about to start my second winter at Halley on the Brunt. Are you familiar with our little base at all? Our resident TwinOtter left a few days ago - much to the relief of a certain pilot Mark Beasley (from BFTC), who was worried he'd be stuck here for a few more weeks due to bad weather!
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Licenses
Right thanks a lot, i have looked at the Lasors and i think things may be making sense.
Just trying to think of how to say what im thinking..
Though just becasue its easier to check with you (haha).
Say im going for a CPL/IR, does that mean that i have a commercial pilots licence with a instrument rating...... on a multi-engine aeroplane? (if i done the CPL/IR traing ON a ME plane?)
So therefore i have a license CPL/IR, it means that i have CPL/IR/ME, <- (i know thats not a real license altogether) though do you understand what im trying to say?
I therefore have a CPL/IR/ME becasue i done the CPL/IR on a ME aeroplane.
Il try in one other way to get my point across just incase i dont make sense
-----------------------------------------------------
If i obtain a CPL/IR through specific courses....
must i take other course to obtain a ME/IR?
you might have to look at both explanations to understand me! Sorry if im confusing!
Thanks.
Just trying to think of how to say what im thinking..
Though just becasue its easier to check with you (haha)
.Say im going for a CPL/IR, does that mean that i have a commercial pilots licence with a instrument rating...... on a multi-engine aeroplane? (if i done the CPL/IR traing ON a ME plane?)
So therefore i have a license CPL/IR, it means that i have CPL/IR/ME, <- (i know thats not a real license altogether) though do you understand what im trying to say?
I therefore have a CPL/IR/ME becasue i done the CPL/IR on a ME aeroplane.
Il try in one other way to get my point across just incase i dont make sense
-----------------------------------------------------
If i obtain a CPL/IR through specific courses....
must i take other course to obtain a ME/IR?
you might have to look at both explanations to understand me! Sorry if im confusing!
Thanks.
