Pondering my Future...

[1mag1n3]

Heh, yeah i totally agree!

I think a PPL would be a nice thing to have in your pocket, but as would be a nice lump sum of about £6k with working through college.
I dont think Uni is right for me to be honest, and i cant really explain why!
And yeah, i think with my first wages ill hop into a nice prop and have a senic instructed flight, only to reinforce what my thoughts are now!

I have had one flight when i went to RAF Leeming for my Works Experience, which was more of an acrobatic flight, but i still got to have a nice turn of the controls and got to do a loop!

And you said get "loads" of money behind you, the most realistically is about £12k including the money earned through college, this would mean spending some whilst learning to drive, and little bits and bobs here and there.

I am sure my parents would also help with money, not sure how much they would put in mind. Say, if i went to FTE they would most probably have to put their house on a secured loan, which would be the biggest help, but im not sure they would go this far

I just wish i could go into the future and be ready to go to an FTO with some nice A-Levels behind me, and a nice sum of money!

Thanks again Canadapilot,
Chris.

EDITED for this question

How much would an unsecured loan go up to, the largest possible unsecured loan on the planet? Anyone managed to get one with a highstreet bank for a fairly large sum of money? If so tell tell tell!

[jaymak]

Chris,

About flying school's in Australia, I'm about to start my CPL practical at Adelaide Flight Training Centre, based at Parafield Airport.

http://www.adelaideftc.com/

It's pretty good. But I'm thinking about going to FTE after I get the CPL. Not much point coming to Aust. unless you want to work in the region.

[PAPI-74]

1mag,

I am a flying instructor and an FO at London City. All of the schools you listed need to be visited to see where you are most comfortable. Remember, you are there for quite a while and you must be relaxed.
I went modular at Bournemouth, Professional Air Training, as I felt very unimpressed with OAT and Cabair. PATwere very helpful, compared to OAT who due to large numbers, forget the individual. The sales is very heavy, but it takes a step back to see through it. Don't just believe all you hear, get in and ask probing questions. I didn't fancy training in the desert in temps over 45 deg. I asked the sales bod at what piont did they stop flying......45 deg. That means that the cockpit is way above that, with no air-con. Nuts to that.....
Cabair will tell you what you want to hear re-jobs. Again, ask for previous students e-mail to get the truth. OAT claim to have a recruitment team, but I hear you are just forgotton once you have parted with you cash.
Expect nothing, and allow enough money to fund a bond / TR. I didn't have to, but many do. If I went to Easy with my Turbo Prop hours, I would still need to font the money for a TR. Needless to say, I won't be applying to them. I would recommend you instruct for 6 months or so. It is really good fun and gives you exceptionl handeling skills on those rough days, while maturing you very quickly.
There are no guaranteed jobs. Luck and knowing the right person at the right time is vital. Most airlines get 50+ CV's per week, most low houred. It is luck if they pick yours.
Example: On my sim check, the other bloke being checked had 5000hrs flying all sorts of twins. He didn't get the job and at the time I was on 450hrs with a bit of instructing. The ops dest is littered with mugs with pilots details on. Clever idea, but they are just laughed at.
Not trying to pi## on your strawberries, but there is a reality to the dream, and lots don't make it, having blown money they have to pay back. Some get the FATPL and never find work becauce they don't chase hard enough. Don't pay for a TR without a written offer of a job. I know 2 people who paid for 737 TR's and 1 is instructing, the other is back in IT.
Good luck!
Don't listen to bull and be suckered into a bad deal. You are the customer so if you are not happy, tell them. Go a bad instructor, get rid.

[matt85]

Really good post.

[Re-Heat]

Go a bad instructor, get rid.

Qualify this comment though - take valid criticism on the chin, and don't become an arrogant pilot, else you will kill yourself.

You need to the schools for yourself to see what is right for you. Don't be taken in by either marketing, or doing the training at the cheapest location - neither are always the best.

You need to learn from experienced instructors at that stage, so choose somewhere that gives you that best experience and instruction, instead places with limited instructors who have few flying hours themselves.

[1mag1n3]

Thanks for the replies again guys. Sorry i have not posted for a while, ive been in Turkey for a fortnight chillaxing around the pool

Anyhow, back to reality.
Thanks for your post PAPI-74, it explained a lot. Marketing is obviously a major factor to the FTO's as without it their would be no students there!
If any of you were to reccommend a school what would it be, i know this is a very large and wide ranging question, but with both personal and non personal opinions which school would you say has the best money to success ratio, as i obviously dont have a money growing tree.
Obviously OAT and FTE are the big ones, but as you say they are most probably marketing until they get enough students get their cash and bye bye.
I am sort of wondering what the hell to think at this moment!

Thanks,
Chris.

[Mach44]

Another good place to look could be Stapleford (www.flysfc.com)
Haven't been there myself yet, but from what I have heard and read, one great school.

[1mag1n3]

Ive seen this school in Ireland, http://www.pilottraining.ie
Is it any good?

And reality is obviously there, but when your heart is set on something it is hard to see reality, but i do tend to take a step back and see the whole picture.

Like PAPI said, many might go to an FTO and not even get a job, which then your stuck.
I dont know what to think at the moment!

Best Regards.
Chris.

[Nibbler]

One of the easier ways to both fund and prove to everyone you have the desire is to get a part time [if you are continuing your education] or a even full time job with a flying school doing anything at all, sweep the floor or whatever.

You may even get a discounted rate for your PPL training as an employee, or at the very least be able to 'pay as you go' rather than be forced to fork out a lump sum.

If you can do this whilst living at home then all the better as the costs of living on your own are just not going to give you the spare cash to fund your PPL in your spare time.

Get your PPL this way and both your parents and potential employers will look at you a whole lot differently than they do now.

GOOD LUCK!

PS - a quick 10 point reality check.

1. Getting a job a a FO with an airline is not easy [check all the posts on here]
2. You don't yet know if you are capable of the ATPL rigors yet so PPL should be your first taste of what is to come
3. At the moment you will need to get 500-1000 flying hours, after you get your ATPL, to have a hope of getting a FO interview. Getting a job as a flying instructor is the only realistic option to build and pay for these hours
4. You may well need to pay to obtain a 'Type Rating' [TR] to secure a FO job
5. Working on an airfield gets you experience beyond that of flying which can be very handy and maybe pick up some contacts in the industry which you might need to call on in the future
6. If you go the 'Modular' route to your ATPL then expect to pay 40k just to qualify and we are talking lump sums of cash for each section here
7. If you go the integrated route then it's around 70K as a lump sum
8. Unsecured loans are not an option at your age with no job
9. Banks are starting to refuse funding for integrated training for ATPL and you are required to start repaying this loan [if you can get one] as soon as you qualify - job or not.
10. Flying Instructors earn about 10k a year give or take

[jaymak]

Originally Posted by Nibbler

5. Working on an airfield gets you experience beyond that of flying which can be very handy and maybe pick up some contacts in the industry which you might need to call on in the future.

That's a good point. I've picked up a few contacts in the last two years of flying, and by basically hanging around the FTO I fly with. There is so much more to aviation than just the flying. These people help you learn the 'ways' of the industry.

And in aviation, one of those things is 'it's who you know, not what you know.' Believe me, if you know the right people, the doors seem to beg you to walk through them.

[SILENT_BADGER]

Chris,

Have you looked at CTC's wings scheme? Its not quite the same thing as the traditional FTOs like OAT, Cabair etc. They run a set of selection tests and then if all goes well they train you up to MCC/JOC level and deliver you to one of their customer airlines. You then spend the first few years of your career paying back the cost of this training.

Most of the new F/Os at my airline are from CTC. In my batch 9 were CTC, 2 were RAF and 2 were from other airlines. This is what I would have done in your position because the biggest challenge I think most people find is getting that first job. There are quite a few threads on here where people who know more (usually) about it than I discuss the pros and cons.

This rather assumes that your target is the airlines, there is of course much more to commercial aviation than just those.

The other thing I would suggest is to think about the qualifications you are capable of aquiring in the next few years in a larger context than purely being a pilot. It's a wonderful thing to go for but it is vulnerable to things outside our control like losing a medical (getting diabetes puts an end to the show), economic downturns or another 9/11. Always good to have alternative options.

Good luck with it all, reconnaissance is never wasted.

Cheers,
Gareth

[1mag1n3]

Yes, CTC wings looks brilliant, but the demand for these courses is simply massive, and your chance of being chosen is very small. However it does look very good, and i think once it comes to the time i shall apply for the selection process.
Has anyone been on the course at CTC wings, if so tell me about it!

Thanks,
Chris.

[1mag1n3]

Going back to one of my previous posts, i was wondering what you thought of http://www.pilottraining.ie which is an irish school. I was basically wondering what it is like and what you guys think of it?

Thanks if you can shed any light on this.

Chris.

[Sky Wave]

1magin3

Agree with SILENT_BADGER.

I think CTC should be your first port of call. I went through the Wings ATP route having already gained my fATPL but I've met many CTC Wings Cadets and it certainly seems to be one of the best ways of getting into the airlines if that’s what you want.

My reasoning?

1) Everyone who makes it through the course gets into the right hand seat of a reputable airline.
2) Their training is extremely good and is just what the airlines are looking for.
3) There's no hidden costs and accommodation and transport is included in the price.
4) They will help you arrange an unsecured loan so no need to mortgage your parents house.

That's just some of my reasons.

I trust you've been to their website and read all the FAQ etc.

http://www.ctcaviation.com/

your chance of being chosen is very small

Less of that sort of negative talk. They take everyone that meets the grade. If you do your research and you have what it takes to be a commercial pilot you should be able to get through their selection process. They took me, I'm no Chuck Yeager and I'm certainly not the brightest pebble on the beech but I got through and I now fly 737's for a living.

The above said, you do need a plan B and a plan C just in case.

You should also go and get a class 1 medical straight away. It would be a shame spending the next 2 years planning and working towards a goal which is unachievable on medical grounds.

All the best.

SW

[1mag1n3]

Thanks for that SW. What you say is very positive, and i think from my perspective it is what i need to hear. When the time comes i will most definatly be applying to CTC wings, as it seems to be very good training from those who have mentioned it. And what ive read in the past from the website seems very promising.

And excuse the negative comment about the selection, but from what people say it is very tough to get in, but generally i am a positive person. If i apply i would think i could get selected, but i would not get my hopes up to be selected. I would say i am more of a Realist

Anyway, as the time is coming in a year or so to get my act sorted out, when would be the best time to apply to schools? 6 months before is what i heard, as it is enough time to be sorting out medicals, money etc.

My reasoning?

1) Everyone who makes it through the course gets into the right hand seat of a reputable airline.
2) Their training is extremely good and is just what the airlines are looking for.
3) There's no hidden costs and accommodation and transport is included in the price.
4) They will help you arrange an unsecured loan so no need to mortgage your parents house.

Wow these reasons are just what you want to hear, all are almost as good as another but number 1 just pips it

Thanks a million guys,

Chris.

[WildDart]

Just my little input from the experience i have got

Before going further with a career and future plans, make sure you want it, try get a trial lesson in if you enjoy that then over then next two years try to get your PPL depending on money issues.

Beginning to learn can be difficult at least this way you have less pressure and can do it your own time and build up a knowledge of flying rather than jumping into the deep end (Zero to ATPL)

Hope all goes well!!

In addition there are hundreds of flying schools out there that all offer the same thing becareful because quite a few are scammers and you will not get your money worth. start Googling, emailing and ringing they are there to help. Its hard to say which school is the best, as i found out. Just look around and you will find one that suits you and your learnings style.


WD

[BerksFlyer]

With regards to what WildDart said, does anyone know if CTC take cadets with a PPL?

On the website it says 'people with little experience', yet this is a bit ambiguous in relation to the amount of hours a PPL could have.

[1mag1n3]

BF,
I think that the Wings scheme is for people without any flying experience, yet i would not see why they would not accept you onto the course with a PPL, but i really have no idea about this, someone else would need to say!

My parents now are curious about my plans, they seem to be giving me more support toward going to an FTO, and are wondering where i would possibly go. I have mentioned CTC as my number one choice, FTE as my second, and Oxford or Oxford as my third, and if all these fail then i would go to a local school in Leeds, which offers modular ab-initio training, for a decent price.
I was basically thinking if this is the right frame of mind to be in, as i know selection into these schools is fairly hard, and many of them are identical to each other.

And i heard that you need to be 19 to be accepted onto the CTC wings cadet scheme, is this true?

[BerksFlyer]

1mag1n3,

It is 18 to apply and to start going through the selection system. Not sure if you have to wait until your 19 to start, but I wouldn't have thought so. It would probably have to coincide with being 19 to recieve a CPL, so you could start whilst 18 as long as you will be 19 by recieving the CPL which would be likely as the course takes about a year

[1mag1n3]

Ahh, right i see

Just i read somewhere that you needed to be 19 from a BALPA sponsership document thing!

Open to Min. age 19-29 yrs on date of application.

I hope it is 18, as i would love to train at CTC, it seems to be the best regarding job oppertunities.

Thanks,
Chris.