help atpl please ...need info

[normann]

hello
i wanted to know if it is possible to pass the atpl in uk only by using the atpl database questions of bristol without knowing the subject .
i have 2 jobs at the same time so it is very difficult for me to study because every day i finish at 1 pm..
thank you

[n90bar]

Hi,

I wouldnt even think of attempting that. The ATPL ground school is there for a reason - for you to learn the information that is vital to a Professional Airline Pilot's career.
Anyway you have to do a minimum number of study hours before the CAA will allow you to attempt the JAR exams, - I believe for distance learning students that also involves a some classroom time.
I totally would agree that the Bristol Database is an excellent tool to prepare for the Jars - it is only that - a tool. It should be used along with a good set of notes, maps and CBT.

[captain_rossco]

ATPL database

Not quite sure I understand, you finish at 1pm, that surely frees up the whole afternoon?

There may be a few people out there who were a teeny weeny bit worried about someone having little or no contextual knowledge of the ATPL syllabai.

Me thinks there are rather alot of people out there working part time and ATPL'ing distance learn so see how that may be workable and give it a shot amigo.

Bojour for now.

Regards
Rossco

[weis]

Ok... PPL done, what next?

Hey, just a quick question on the ATPL ground school requirements, from the information i have come across the main requirement is the possession of a JAA PPL, is that correct? Also, has anybody managed to finish the exams within 12 months whilst working full-time? Just wondering whether it would be more feasible for me to quit the job and enroll on a residential course through Bristol. I've also been considering OFT's residential ATPL course http://www.oftgs.com/residential.html Has anybody has gone through it as i've read far too many negative (and a few positive) comments on OFT.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

[EpsilonVaz]

I think passing the ATPL subjects just using the Bristol database is insane, and dangerous. As mentioned before, the ATPL exams are there for a reason. Yes, the questions and content can be a bit trying at times, but that is all part of the journey.

EpsilonVaz

[weis]

Thanks for the response, and of course, i have no intention of using the question bank as my primary source of knowledge to sit the tests. I was merely trying to gauge what sort of hours people manage to put in towards studying whilst working full-time, and also in terms of how long they took overall, be it 12 months or more.

[Whirlygig]

I think passing the ATPL subjects just using the Bristol database is insane, and dangerous.

And also impossible! In order to sit the ATPL exams, you have to be entered through an authorised ground school to whom you pay your money and with whom you have mandatory classroom instruction. Whilst nobody will ever know whether a student has opened their study files and only used the question bank, classroom course is compulsory.

However, I would thik it would take longer to memorise the question bank than the read and inwardly digest the study manuals and obtain some instrinsic understanding of the subject.

Weis, I don't think those posts were directed at you but the thread originator. As for doing the ATPLs in a year whilest working full-time? Do you have support at home? Partner? parent? If you spent all your spare time studying (and I mean all), you might do them within 12 months but it would probably be the hardest thing you could ever do! If you haven't got anyone to help at home, then it would be tricky!

Cheers

Whirls

[normann]

hello and thank you for your answer .
i already have a faa frozen atpl and because i dont have the green card it was the come back at home .
i heard that the bristol database questions contains 6500 questions and that the questions are teh same in the exam thats why i asked if it is possible to pass the exam only by using the questions ..some people said yes other said that it is possible for subject like com vfr ifr and air law and human performance ..
but they said me that for the subject like nav and met you have to understand the subject ..
what is your opinion.

[ouioui]

I'm doing a distance learning from BristolGS, my main goal is understanding, and memorizing. The ATPL exam is just a proof of a knowledge level, which I think is much lower than what you really need to know to be a professional pilot. I take the opportunity of learning as much as I can now, to make the flying lessons easier. I don't really mind the exam, it is just a step.

Anyway, it seems that you need a paper from an authorized FTO to validate your ATPL...

Will

[Whirlygig]

and that the questions are teh same in the exam thats why i asked if it is possible to pass the exam only by using the questions ..some people said yes other said that it is possible for subject like com vfr ifr and air law and human performance ..
but they said me that for the subject like nav and met you have to understand the subject ..
what is your opinion.

Normann, you didn't appear to like the previous answers all of which were valid and correct so ... yes, if you memorised all the questions in the question bank, you could pass. Is that what you wanted to hear?

However, you wouldn't be allowed to sit the exams unless you have been entered through an authorised ground school.

In addition, unless you had a good understanding of the subject, you would almost certainly fail any job interview!!! And nobody would fly with you!!

Cheers

Whirls

[EpsilonVaz]

but they said me that for the subject like nav and met you have to understand the subject ..

You also need to understand the other 12 subjects. I understand that you may have had an easy holiday getting your FAA fATPL, but in JAA land the effort and time required is greater.

Understanding the 14 ATPL subjects will make you a safer pilot, the knowladge and wisdom you will gain from understanding the subjects as opposed to just learning the answers may very well prove to be what stands between life and death for yourself and hundreds of people.

Don't get me wrong, the Bristol QB is great for the exams, it helps you understand the way exam questions are asked and need to be answered.

So, study hard, ask your Ground School Instructors questions, and all will be fine.

EpsilonVaz

[Greg2041]

Silly question time. Are FAA ATPL pilots flying paid passengers around the world? If so, and this is a serious question, why should JAA be the 'best'?

Greg

[Jaguar Pilot]

The F in FAA stands for "Fake".

Discuss.

JP

[Greg2041]

Come on people.... Now the issue is out in the open, what is the problem with an FAA ATPL?

Greg

[Greg2041]

... and a point well made but what is the difference? I was recently speaking to a BA pilot of several years standing who said that the JAA ATPL ground syllabus was ridiculous and that most of it would be forgotten within a few months. I understand that the FAA syllabus is directly related to what you actually need to know, or is it?

More recently I was speaking to a Police Pilot who transferred from the Forces. He was shocked by the syllabus and the part he did was, I quote, "... Mostly irrelevent."

Me, I haven't a clue but I would be interested in your views!

[Whirlygig]

My take and my understanding of this issue is that the FAA exams are generally easier to pass. However, as part of the FAA skills test there is a very detailed oral exam which, if you didn't genuinely know your stuff, you'd fail.

From what I've seen so far of the JAA ground school, it is really only difficult due to the sheer volume of stuff to learn and memorise. If you fixed wing guys thinks a lot of it is irrelevant, think how us helicopters feel!!!

My current profession involved some difficult exams. These were mostly written in order to prove understanding and tried to have some bearing on the real world i.e. we could take in copies of tax tables, Companies Act etc which is what you would do in real life - look it up!! The need for rote learning did not have much emmphasis.

Cheers

Whirls

[Jez_G]

I'm currently studying for my ATPL's and working in the US as a commercial pilot.
The FAA written exams are not particularly hard to pass and get great scores, all it really takes is buying one of the question books (or an online version now) and learning the answers. There are between 900 and 1400 questions in the bank for each test, so rote learning is not really a problem. I personally don't think that this is a great system for obvious reasons and have tried to actually take in as much as is possible.
Having said that, the information provided by the FAA for you to learn (apart from perf. data for ATP pt 121 written) seems to be fairly relevant and useful....provided you do actually learn it!
With the written exam in hand you complete a practical test with a significant oral section (which focuses on the questions you got wrong in your written, from subject codes on the written certificate). Then a check ride as usual. The oral and check ride do certainly take a large amount of proper learning compared with the written exams.
It seems that the JAA info is extremely in depth and from what i have looked at so far (only a few of the sections) probably a little over the top. However, it is no bad thing to know too much especially if this is to be your chosen career.
So it might seem like a lot of work to get them but a broad basis of knowledge is a good thing.
I cannot comment on JAA check rides as I have not taken any but I've heard the flying standard is fairly similar. With similar hour requirements I would expect this to be the case.
So, is it easier to get FAA licences? The answer is probably yes, the workload is certainly more for the JAA.
Will you use ALL of the ATPL theory throughout your career? Probably not but no correct knowledge is bad knowledge (and some of it will definitely be useful).
Are FAA pilots inferior in any way? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
Good luck to everyone either system you choose! Doing both is...ummm.....
a) A Bitch
b) Extremely enjoyable
c) 25.3 NM
d) A necessary evil
(Answers on a postcard)

[Greg2041]

Thanks Jez G and Whirlygig. Your responses have proven extremely useful. A school teacher was recently talking about the differences between UK and US approaches to learning. The one thing I picked up is that the US system, focuses on what you actually need to know and tends to be more specific. In the UK, it tends to be 'learn as much as you can and we will test you on some areas but not all'. Books in the UK are often 4 to 5 times thicker than US ones.

If the JAA syllabus is so important, I am at a loss to understand why only certain areas are tested. Call me cynical but one might say that the JAA & their ATPL providers are creating a very lucrative industry. Certainly top UK pilots I have spoken to believe that much of the ATPL ground-school syllabus is irrelevant.

[Greg2041]

I was speaking to my Mum about the FAA verus the JAA issues and knowing that Mum is always right she said, "Maybe the planes in America are different!" Silly me for not picking up on this point..........

[billa]

hmmmm....i was wondering that are the NASA astronauts hold a JAR or a FAA ATPL!!! I think JAR ATPL should also add and include a 15th subject-- Flight planning and Operational procedures: SPACE. There is already sooooo unnecessary,pointless and redundant things to study in JAR, so why not add another subject. Who knows when you need it?

Well i dont think that JAR pilots should have a notion that because they study 14 subjects so they are professionally better than North American, South American, Asian, Australian or Middle Eastern pilots...they all are equally knowledgeable and professional.