The FLYER Professional Flight Training Show 2007
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There should be a FLYER stall set up off to one side of the main entrance which will take your money.
If you are driving, park up in the BAA/public car park to the rear of the hotel adjoiing what is/was the visitors centre. Cheaper with more spaces.
If you are driving, park up in the BAA/public car park to the rear of the hotel adjoiing what is/was the visitors centre. Cheaper with more spaces.
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Flyer Professional Pilot Training Exhibition - your impressions?
For those of you that attended this event at LHR on the 17th, how did you find it in general?
My thoughts -
Excellent seminars! Capt. Ian Cheese from Flybe gave a very insightful talk into career prospects with them, as did the IR Flight test examiner from the CAA.
Flying schools - now this one is interesting. Ultimately, this was a form of very direct marketing for these guys. You hear the good things on forums about some schools and yet poor things about others, and this was your chance to confirm what you had read. If I walk up to an exhibitor stand and there are reps there who are not with somebody, I expect them to approach me and ask me if they can assist me - after all I might be spending thousands with them in the future. Cabair won my vote with their advice and information, as did BCFT, yet disappointingly when I approached the AFT stand (which was devoid of customers at the time) the CFI looked at me and walked straight on by to go and talk to a younger (perhaps more viable looking?) customer. Oh dear, what a shame.
I would definitely say that it was an excellent day all in all and well worth going to, so that you can formulate better ideas on which schools to invest your money in.
My thoughts -
Excellent seminars! Capt. Ian Cheese from Flybe gave a very insightful talk into career prospects with them, as did the IR Flight test examiner from the CAA.
Flying schools - now this one is interesting. Ultimately, this was a form of very direct marketing for these guys. You hear the good things on forums about some schools and yet poor things about others, and this was your chance to confirm what you had read. If I walk up to an exhibitor stand and there are reps there who are not with somebody, I expect them to approach me and ask me if they can assist me - after all I might be spending thousands with them in the future. Cabair won my vote with their advice and information, as did BCFT, yet disappointingly when I approached the AFT stand (which was devoid of customers at the time) the CFI looked at me and walked straight on by to go and talk to a younger (perhaps more viable looking?) customer. Oh dear, what a shame.
I would definitely say that it was an excellent day all in all and well worth going to, so that you can formulate better ideas on which schools to invest your money in.
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Finals19:
"AFT" ....are you referring to Aeros Flight Training or Atlantic Flight Training?
I personally thought the visit was worthwhile, even though I attended the one in November. Met some other pilots I've got to know since visiting the colleges - mainly from the OAT bunch, so had a good laugh and catch up.
I had already booked a visit to Atlantic Flight Training next week before even considering attending the show again, so meeting them at the show first gave me a bit of heads up. They've got some good ATPL Groundschool books (in colour), that come with Study CD and Exam question CD (all Jeppesan material); so something to think about along side other groundschool options.
Cabair, whilst a very helpful bunch, I felt their ATPL study material could be better in terms of presentation - just looked like old diagrams and solid txt (while being informative); there sure was enough information in them! I'm planning a visit to Cabair at Cranfield shortly. They have a new fleet of a/c as well as links abroad for hour building etc.
So far OAT (I personally found I got on with them best), Cabair are possible choices, but the main factor is to decide whether I want to do training in an analogue or glass cockpit and obviously COST.
Although OAT might be more expensive, but there seem to be lots of guys from the industry who work at OAT (after being told this from a recent visit to their college), plus the college has lots of links with the airlines, financial assistance, GECAT link, which all help towards that first job. I would be doing Modular.
There wasn't enough room in the seminar room sadly, so had to miss out on the IR discussion.
So far i'm still undecided over a number of things:
Whether to fly analogue (Seneca) or glass (DA42) for training (with the intention to fly a 737NG or A320)?
Would having glass cockpit experience reduce the chances of any job application for an analogue a/c e.g. 737-400 (I have currently trained on analogue to date - but since experiencing Glass.. "VERY NICE!")?
Possibly train at a FTO where you can do distance learning and fall back onto full time classroom study if needed, as you can't do that with Bristol?
Choosing a college that have "links" with FTO's abroad, so I would still have 1 FTO company on my CV when it comes to doing hour building (not sure if Atlantic have this)?
Do FTO's give preferential treatment to Integrated than Modular, or they both treated equally?
These are my immediate concerns that aren't exactly helping me make my decision where to go. I hope by visiting the colleges and students, I will be able to make a choice.
"AFT" ....are you referring to Aeros Flight Training or Atlantic Flight Training?
I personally thought the visit was worthwhile, even though I attended the one in November. Met some other pilots I've got to know since visiting the colleges - mainly from the OAT bunch, so had a good laugh and catch up.
I had already booked a visit to Atlantic Flight Training next week before even considering attending the show again, so meeting them at the show first gave me a bit of heads up. They've got some good ATPL Groundschool books (in colour), that come with Study CD and Exam question CD (all Jeppesan material); so something to think about along side other groundschool options.
Cabair, whilst a very helpful bunch, I felt their ATPL study material could be better in terms of presentation - just looked like old diagrams and solid txt (while being informative); there sure was enough information in them! I'm planning a visit to Cabair at Cranfield shortly. They have a new fleet of a/c as well as links abroad for hour building etc.
So far OAT (I personally found I got on with them best), Cabair are possible choices, but the main factor is to decide whether I want to do training in an analogue or glass cockpit and obviously COST.
Although OAT might be more expensive, but there seem to be lots of guys from the industry who work at OAT (after being told this from a recent visit to their college), plus the college has lots of links with the airlines, financial assistance, GECAT link, which all help towards that first job. I would be doing Modular.
There wasn't enough room in the seminar room sadly, so had to miss out on the IR discussion.
So far i'm still undecided over a number of things:
Whether to fly analogue (Seneca) or glass (DA42) for training (with the intention to fly a 737NG or A320)?
Would having glass cockpit experience reduce the chances of any job application for an analogue a/c e.g. 737-400 (I have currently trained on analogue to date - but since experiencing Glass.. "VERY NICE!")?
Possibly train at a FTO where you can do distance learning and fall back onto full time classroom study if needed, as you can't do that with Bristol?
Choosing a college that have "links" with FTO's abroad, so I would still have 1 FTO company on my CV when it comes to doing hour building (not sure if Atlantic have this)?
Do FTO's give preferential treatment to Integrated than Modular, or they both treated equally?
These are my immediate concerns that aren't exactly helping me make my decision where to go. I hope by visiting the colleges and students, I will be able to make a choice.
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Flyer Show
Thought it was very good indeed, although the various exhibitors promoting their wares all did such a bloody good job that I am still very much undecided as to who will be getting my ATPL groundschool cash!
Full time is definitely the order of the day, although the world famous Alex Whittingham from Bristol Ground School, very nearly convinced me otherwise, the set up there just looks incredibly good, and talks of links with a uni in the midlands could mean that (for all intents and purposes) one may soon be able to do a Bristol notes based full time course, Cosmic!
I was hoping that Oxford would convince me outright that they were well worth the extra money, and whilst their stand and ATPL manuals alike were absolutely superb, I was encouraged (quite rightly) that a visit was the only way to decide, and I didn't get as much out of them on the day as I'd have liked. They were ,however, very polite and ever the professionals!
BCFT (Bournemouth) were great fun, I finally met Dena, and was impressed with her honesty. Great results of late, and Manuals that 'did the job', the instructors were talking at length to potential students, and the DVD of the school was a a grand help in getting a feel of what to expect when I visit.
Some schools did not impress in any way at all, although I'll not be passing any judgements here, me thinks it would be foolish to make any assumptions based only on their appointed representatives for the day.
Needless to say,I'll be visiting a few schools in due course and looking to commence the ATPL GS at the end of May, beginning of June.
All in all a very helpful day, if only serving to prove that there are various ways to skin a cat. Triffic.!
Kind Regards
Rossco
Full time is definitely the order of the day, although the world famous Alex Whittingham from Bristol Ground School, very nearly convinced me otherwise, the set up there just looks incredibly good, and talks of links with a uni in the midlands could mean that (for all intents and purposes) one may soon be able to do a Bristol notes based full time course, Cosmic!
I was hoping that Oxford would convince me outright that they were well worth the extra money, and whilst their stand and ATPL manuals alike were absolutely superb, I was encouraged (quite rightly) that a visit was the only way to decide, and I didn't get as much out of them on the day as I'd have liked. They were ,however, very polite and ever the professionals!
BCFT (Bournemouth) were great fun, I finally met Dena, and was impressed with her honesty. Great results of late, and Manuals that 'did the job', the instructors were talking at length to potential students, and the DVD of the school was a a grand help in getting a feel of what to expect when I visit.
Some schools did not impress in any way at all, although I'll not be passing any judgements here, me thinks it would be foolish to make any assumptions based only on their appointed representatives for the day.
Needless to say,I'll be visiting a few schools in due course and looking to commence the ATPL GS at the end of May, beginning of June.
All in all a very helpful day, if only serving to prove that there are various ways to skin a cat. Triffic.!
Kind Regards
Rossco
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I thought is was a really good show. I was really I found Cabair,OAT and FTE to be the most informative and had really good info. I was dissapointed with PTC they lacked in good information compared to the other schools. The seminars were really good also and gave good clear info.
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"AFT" ....are you referring to Aeros Flight Training or Atlantic Flight Training?
Would having glass cockpit experience reduce the chances of any job application for an analogue a/c e.g. 737-400 (I have currently trained on analogue to date - but since experiencing Glass.. "VERY NICE!")?
Choosing a college that have "links" with FTO's abroad, so I would still have 1 FTO company on my CV when it comes to doing hour building (not sure if Atlantic have this)?
Some schools did not impress in any way at all, although I'll not be passing any judgements here, me thinks it would be foolish to make any assumptions based only on their appointed representatives for the day.
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From my experience, choose the glass DA42. The aircraft is lovely to fly and really does make your life easy compared to an ageing Seneca. The Seneca is also lovely to fly, however, if you want a first time IR the DA42 will certainly be more user friendly and does help in the transition onto a modern jet due to the familiar instrument representation. Whatever you choose, good luck to all concerned
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It won't make a difference if you train on an "analogue" aeroplane or not. All they care about is that you have the licence and ratings they require and the right number of hours. As far as only having one FTO on your CV is concerned, I can't see why that is important. I used 9 different training organisations / flying schools but it might be easier if you used the one. They probably won't really care anyway, and they will care even less where you did your hour building.
I reckon the best way to assess an FTO is to visit them, talk to current students and just take a look around. If the office is tidy, if they are in control of their process and if they seem organised then you will probably be OK. If the place is a mess and they don't seem to know who is doing what in which aeroplane and with whom, I would walk away. I have seen some very good and some very bad FTOs and you can tell within a few minutes what it is going to be like there.
Also if they can't be bothered to be nice to you at a marketing event, they won't give a stuff once they've got your money!
I reckon the best way to assess an FTO is to visit them, talk to current students and just take a look around. If the office is tidy, if they are in control of their process and if they seem organised then you will probably be OK. If the place is a mess and they don't seem to know who is doing what in which aeroplane and with whom, I would walk away. I have seen some very good and some very bad FTOs and you can tell within a few minutes what it is going to be like there.
Also if they can't be bothered to be nice to you at a marketing event, they won't give a stuff once they've got your money!
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As far as only having one FTO on your CV is concerned, I can't see why that is important. I used 9 different training organisations / flying schools but it might be easier if you used the one. They probably won't really care anyway, and they will care even less where you did your hour building.
Ian Cheese's stance on this was basically consistency - as a business if you were doing a large project, you wouldn't pick and choose your providers yourself, but rather get a professional project manager who has knowledge of the area to do it. Likewise with your training, he wasn't keen on the whole "plan your own training" approach as you can't be an expert in assessing your own training. Much better to stick with one provider who can then focus on your weaknesses and improve those etc., rather than at each new provider having to be re-assessed and covering old ground and/or missing things that you need to concentrate on.
He stated that if you'd done CPL, ME/IR etc at more than 2 different providers then he wouldn't look at you. Whether this is right or wrong doesn't matter I guess, that's how it is - there are obviously enough candidates available who have used one (or perhaps 2) FTOs.
Ian Cheese's stance on this was basically consistency - as a business if you were doing a large project, you wouldn't pick and choose your providers yourself, but rather get a professional project manager who has knowledge of the area to do it. Likewise with your training, he wasn't keen on the whole "plan your own training" approach as you can't be an expert in assessing your own training. Much better to stick with one provider who can then focus on your weaknesses and improve those etc., rather than at each new provider having to be re-assessed and covering old ground and/or missing things that you need to concentrate on.
He stated that if you'd done CPL, ME/IR etc at more than 2 different providers then he wouldn't look at you. Whether this is right or wrong doesn't matter I guess, that's how it is - there are obviously enough candidates available who have used one (or perhaps 2) FTOs.
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Seems like they have a strong opinion! I suppose I would have to partially agree though - if you have used 4 training providers for 3 courses then something has obviously gone wrong (!) and it might be the fault of the student so I can understand why. However, it is a litte harsh for the guys who decided to do a sneaky multi rating when they were on their holidays and decided to do their CPL and IR at different places.
I do think it is a good idea to do you multi and IR at the same place as you will remain on the same aeroplane and you can do your multi training before your IR and then sit the test just before your IR test, maximising your hours on the aeroplane prior to test. The school I did my IR at was based in the UK so I went to the US instead to get it done quickly
However, I am sure though that they won't expect you to do your PPL, Night, IMC etc. at the same school as well as all your hour building??
I do think it is a good idea to do you multi and IR at the same place as you will remain on the same aeroplane and you can do your multi training before your IR and then sit the test just before your IR test, maximising your hours on the aeroplane prior to test. The school I did my IR at was based in the UK so I went to the US instead to get it done quickly
However, I am sure though that they won't expect you to do your PPL, Night, IMC etc. at the same school as well as all your hour building??
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Compared to previous years wasn't it much smaller? Maybe I missed another part of it being held elsewhere or on another floor. Not that it matters I only had enough time to specific schools/providers before I had to return for some baby sitting 
Ah the joys of parenting
Ah the joys of parenting
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It was excellent, I thoroughly enjoyed chatting to GAPAN and the joint seminar with Ian Cheese was very insightful and to the point.
I spoke a lot, asked lots of questions and came out feeling even more confident about going on the career path.
I though Oxford was very good and organised, i bought some training material too, which i liked but i was not keen on spending 4 Months In USA doing 150 hrs flyign at 1.5 hrs per day. Although it sounded like a good opportunity to enjoy flying over there, and touring about in my spare time, i had to remember that they are at the top of the price range for training and it gave me the impression of wasted time, and money. Im paying for a qualification, not a holiday. But i did consider that this more relaxed approach of flying without needing ground studies at the same time, probably produces good results for students.....(something to think about)
FTE did it for me, i like their set up, location etc and the fact that they dont charge you for the privelage of doing aptitude tests, they accomodate you and feed you for 2 days. How kind! Also, everythign is included in the price apart from your shoes to match your uniform.
Of course everyone wants to sell a product and at the end of the day, its down to the results you can achieve.
One thing i did take away from the event, was that all those pilots we were chatting to, got jobs nearly immediatly upon graduation and teh reason is because they had TOP marks in everything, it looks good for them and the school.
I spoke a lot, asked lots of questions and came out feeling even more confident about going on the career path.
I though Oxford was very good and organised, i bought some training material too, which i liked but i was not keen on spending 4 Months In USA doing 150 hrs flyign at 1.5 hrs per day. Although it sounded like a good opportunity to enjoy flying over there, and touring about in my spare time, i had to remember that they are at the top of the price range for training and it gave me the impression of wasted time, and money. Im paying for a qualification, not a holiday. But i did consider that this more relaxed approach of flying without needing ground studies at the same time, probably produces good results for students.....(something to think about)
FTE did it for me, i like their set up, location etc and the fact that they dont charge you for the privelage of doing aptitude tests, they accomodate you and feed you for 2 days. How kind! Also, everythign is included in the price apart from your shoes to match your uniform.
Of course everyone wants to sell a product and at the end of the day, its down to the results you can achieve.
One thing i did take away from the event, was that all those pilots we were chatting to, got jobs nearly immediatly upon graduation and teh reason is because they had TOP marks in everything, it looks good for them and the school.
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Fray, so you choose your school on the basis that you get fed for 2 days?
There isn't a single FTO where all students will get "top marks" and jobs upon graduation.
FTE is a great facility but Oxford and Cabair offer training that's just as good. In the end, if you like it in Spain, you're making the right choice but you should go to Jerez and check it out before you spend the money. I can tell you categorically that there is more to an FTO than you'll see at the Flyer Exhibition.
Yeah,
KK
There isn't a single FTO where all students will get "top marks" and jobs upon graduation.
FTE is a great facility but Oxford and Cabair offer training that's just as good. In the end, if you like it in Spain, you're making the right choice but you should go to Jerez and check it out before you spend the money. I can tell you categorically that there is more to an FTO than you'll see at the Flyer Exhibition.
Yeah,
KK
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Sour Kraut
Dont for a single second think that before i part with my hard earned ahem..loan, that i wouldnt visit the school before hand. I want to see as many as i can, problem is i may aswell do the entrance tests at the same time seeing as they charge for them, which i think is morally incorrect, and makes for a rather expensive visit. I still have a lot of questions to get asking before i make my choice and i haev plenty of time to do so, 15 months to be precise.
Yeah? (how rude!!)
Yeah? (how rude!!)
