Am I too young? And how young is too young?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: calgary ab canada
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Why is it so hard to get a job?
I know its hard to get a job, but why??
I know theres alot of airline pilots... who simply shouldn't be allowed to be airline pilots. Why do the airlines hire people who have a reference witht hat airline over someone who has the experience?
You also think with air travel, as popular as it is there should be a demand for pilots.
and how much does an ailine captain really make?
i see the school advertise that they make over 300K/year, but iknow thats has to be bs...
thanks.
I know theres alot of airline pilots... who simply shouldn't be allowed to be airline pilots. Why do the airlines hire people who have a reference witht hat airline over someone who has the experience?
You also think with air travel, as popular as it is there should be a demand for pilots.
and how much does an ailine captain really make?
i see the school advertise that they make over 300K/year, but iknow thats has to be bs...
thanks.
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You've obviously missed the news over the last year or so!
In your country, the airline 'Canadian' was taken over by Air Canada. Canadian was pretty much bankrupt, and Air Canada stripped out a lot of loss-making routes. That meant a considerable number of redundancies.
Not long after, some Al-Qaeda terrorists took out the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon. The aftershock of that instantly removed 25% of the North American aviation market. Thousands of pilots were furloughed or sacked.
Since then, there has been a small recovery - far less strong in North America than in the rest of the world. There are still thousands of highly-qualified airline pilots out of work. The airlines are obliged to offer these pilots any jobs that do come up before they could advertise them in the open marketplace. Needless to say, there aren't many jobs coming up!
That's why it's so hard to get a job.
I don't understand your statement suggesting that some people should not be airline pilots, nor your comment about references and experience.
In the US, the very highest-paid 747/777 training captains with 30-40 years experience may make US$370,000 (about C$500,000). In UK, the top rate is about £120,000 (about C$230,000). Your FTO doesn't lie, but it doesn't tell the whole truth.
In your country, the airline 'Canadian' was taken over by Air Canada. Canadian was pretty much bankrupt, and Air Canada stripped out a lot of loss-making routes. That meant a considerable number of redundancies.
Not long after, some Al-Qaeda terrorists took out the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon. The aftershock of that instantly removed 25% of the North American aviation market. Thousands of pilots were furloughed or sacked.
Since then, there has been a small recovery - far less strong in North America than in the rest of the world. There are still thousands of highly-qualified airline pilots out of work. The airlines are obliged to offer these pilots any jobs that do come up before they could advertise them in the open marketplace. Needless to say, there aren't many jobs coming up!
That's why it's so hard to get a job.
I don't understand your statement suggesting that some people should not be airline pilots, nor your comment about references and experience.
In the US, the very highest-paid 747/777 training captains with 30-40 years experience may make US$370,000 (about C$500,000). In UK, the top rate is about £120,000 (about C$230,000). Your FTO doesn't lie, but it doesn't tell the whole truth.
Last edited by scroggs; 10th Jun 2002 at 21:17.
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Sorry Calgary, I'm having great difficulty understanding your post. Regarding your experience question, you have lost me completely!
Try re-posting checking spelling / grammar etc.
Try re-posting checking spelling / grammar etc.
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1) Air travel is popular, but so is a flying career (surprisingly!) Therefore there are not a lot of jobs that are easy to get, since there are so many others who also want to do what you do. Read scroggs' post.
2) What on earth do you mean by "alot of airline pilots... who simply shouldn't be allowed to be airline pilots."? As a 16(ish) year old wannabe with (I imagine) little industry experience, you may want to justify such statements much better than you have before you make comments on a board frequented by pilots of all breeds.
3) Experience in terms of hours is not everything, indeed it may not be relevant experience. Having a reference with a regional airline when applying for a major for example means that people have the requisite experience on smaller aircraft to be able to cope with a larger one. I don't understand what you are getting at really, but you could not expect for example for a 1,500 hour person with experience only on Cessnas to be hired before a 1,500 hour person with experience in 2 regional airlines in a variety of different weather conditions and on more sophisticated types.
4) Pilots can expect to make in the UK up to £80,000 or there abouts as a basic salary, exculding flying hour rate, allowances, extra pay for training and other benefits that may or may not be monetary. This is made at the end of one's career, ie when you are 55-65, and therefore is not a prolonged payment, but the final payment. Many can expect to never reach this nor even approach such compensation. The absolute maximum that this equates to could be about £130,000 in the highest paying airlines for somebody who works at all opportunities on the highest tier and is not a management pilot. US pilots can in some airlines expect even better compensation.
5) Learn to type coherently please.
2) What on earth do you mean by "alot of airline pilots... who simply shouldn't be allowed to be airline pilots."? As a 16(ish) year old wannabe with (I imagine) little industry experience, you may want to justify such statements much better than you have before you make comments on a board frequented by pilots of all breeds.
3) Experience in terms of hours is not everything, indeed it may not be relevant experience. Having a reference with a regional airline when applying for a major for example means that people have the requisite experience on smaller aircraft to be able to cope with a larger one. I don't understand what you are getting at really, but you could not expect for example for a 1,500 hour person with experience only on Cessnas to be hired before a 1,500 hour person with experience in 2 regional airlines in a variety of different weather conditions and on more sophisticated types.
4) Pilots can expect to make in the UK up to £80,000 or there abouts as a basic salary, exculding flying hour rate, allowances, extra pay for training and other benefits that may or may not be monetary. This is made at the end of one's career, ie when you are 55-65, and therefore is not a prolonged payment, but the final payment. Many can expect to never reach this nor even approach such compensation. The absolute maximum that this equates to could be about £130,000 in the highest paying airlines for somebody who works at all opportunities on the highest tier and is not a management pilot. US pilots can in some airlines expect even better compensation.
5) Learn to type coherently please.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Atpl????
I'm hearing alot of shiz about this thing called an "ATPL" For those of you who don't know I wil be going to mt royal next year to get my aviation diploma... if i get accepted that is. But from what I understand, an ATPL is where. after a couple years of flying, you take an atpl course, and this allows you to fly for major airlines, or something like that.
What is atpl?
this probably sounds pretty stupid, because I have spent so much time trying to figure out what one is, unless its an american thing?
and what is JAA??
thanks in advance for your replies
What is atpl?
this probably sounds pretty stupid, because I have spent so much time trying to figure out what one is, unless its an american thing?
and what is JAA??
thanks in advance for your replies
Jet Blast Rat
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ATPL is an airline transport pilot's licence (license in American). This is a licence that requires 1500 hours (some of it under specific conditions) so a reasonably experienced pilot. A pilot must have an ATPL to command a multi-crew aircraft. A frozen ATPL is unique to the JAA, and means all courses complete, tests passed, awaiting 1500 hours to qualify, meanwile it is a CPL/IR.
JAA are the Joint Aviation Authorities, an umbrella organisation to oversee co-operation and common standards in the EU plus other states (I think the final total is expected to be around 29 states). In practice an incompetent bunch of bureaucrats who know little about aviation and need to sit my navigation course so they can find their arses with both hands. They are overseeing the destruction of General Aviation in Europe, to a degree that even our own CAA (Campaign Against Aviation, aka the Civil Aviation Authority) is fighting. They have already done their best to prevent people from achieving the aforementioned ATPL. All co-operation is prevented by the French, who throw the toys out of the pram if they don't get their own way. This is well known to all who have tried a co-operative venture with the French (you may recognise this in Canada).
JAA are the Joint Aviation Authorities, an umbrella organisation to oversee co-operation and common standards in the EU plus other states (I think the final total is expected to be around 29 states). In practice an incompetent bunch of bureaucrats who know little about aviation and need to sit my navigation course so they can find their arses with both hands. They are overseeing the destruction of General Aviation in Europe, to a degree that even our own CAA (Campaign Against Aviation, aka the Civil Aviation Authority) is fighting. They have already done their best to prevent people from achieving the aforementioned ATPL. All co-operation is prevented by the French, who throw the toys out of the pram if they don't get their own way. This is well known to all who have tried a co-operative venture with the French (you may recognise this in Canada).
Join Date: May 2003
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Can you be too young?
I am going to start ATPL training in September. I turn 18 in august, and so, assuming I successfully graduate from the course I will be looking for a job when I am coming up for 20.
Is this too young?
Hopefully not, as airlines may look at it as being young and determined, plenty years of flying ahead of you etc, but I would like to hear some opinions as to whether going for it at my age may put me at a disadvantage. (or advantage!)
Thanks,
Stephen Moyes
Is this too young?
Hopefully not, as airlines may look at it as being young and determined, plenty years of flying ahead of you etc, but I would like to hear some opinions as to whether going for it at my age may put me at a disadvantage. (or advantage!)
Thanks,
Stephen Moyes
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Steve
I would say you at a good age for starting your flying career.
You obviously have all the funding and training sorted, so providing the jobs are there at the end of it you have as much chance as anyone else of getting the job of your dreams. As you will see from other threads on here, determination, dedication and personality are far more important than age.
Best of luck with the training.
I would say you at a good age for starting your flying career.
You obviously have all the funding and training sorted, so providing the jobs are there at the end of it you have as much chance as anyone else of getting the job of your dreams. As you will see from other threads on here, determination, dedication and personality are far more important than age.
Best of luck with the training.
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Sounds like CASHMONEYMILLIONAIRE has been the victim of some nights out that have turned pear shaped. Are you speaking from past experience? Oooh suit you sir. 
Back to the original point... No 20 is by no means too young!
Back to the original point... No 20 is by no means too young!
Last edited by Mister Geezer; 22nd May 2003 at 02:09.
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I hope to go commercial in the future also when i have my funding sorted out. I am at college, two years left so this summer i managed to get a job doing baggage handling and other ground duties in DUB. As I was going in to work yesterday, there was a young FO heading to the terminal to start his shift. When i say young, I am 19 and he didn't look too much older than me. Now, I have to admit that I felt jealous at first, but then I thought fair play to him. So, it shows that it can be done and all the very best for your training.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
This doesn't reflect on the above posters.
There is a massive difference between age and maturity. I know one pilot who had a CPL at 18 and ATPL at 21. She was mature beyond her years. Not a boring person, just very focussed.
On the other hand, I also know a pilot who was a few years older than her but at least 15 years younger in terms of maturity. He some serious growing up to do.
It's all about atitude.
There is a massive difference between age and maturity. I know one pilot who had a CPL at 18 and ATPL at 21. She was mature beyond her years. Not a boring person, just very focussed.
On the other hand, I also know a pilot who was a few years older than her but at least 15 years younger in terms of maturity. He some serious growing up to do.
It's all about atitude.
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Stephen,
Work hard, fly to a good standard and you will be judged by your performance, not your age.
I started young, and had to grow up quickly to fit in with the pilots I used to fly with.
Work hard, fly to a good standard and you will be judged by your performance, not your age.
I started young, and had to grow up quickly to fit in with the pilots I used to fly with.
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Some may think you're too young and others will beg to differ. In the end it will probably come down to how you perform in an interview! Whether you will fit in to the company or not I suspect is the bigger question and that will depend on you.
But the sooner you start, the sooner you may get that job. It's worth it!
But the sooner you start, the sooner you may get that job. It's worth it!
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Am I too young?
Hi,
Basically, I would like some views on wheather or not I am too young to start an integrated course of training at Oxford Aviation on the APP. I have already passed the Class 1 medical and the secection process at Oxford and I am considering whether to start as soon as possibe or leave it a while.
I am 18 years old, 19 in September! What I am asking is, do you think that when I am gualified (provided nothing goes wrong) and in a postion to apply for a job, will potential employers view me as too young, bearing in mind that I will be not much more than 20! I have already decided that I am not going to university as I think it would only be a waste of time and money, when what I want to do is be an airline pilot!
Thanks for your time!
Basically, I would like some views on wheather or not I am too young to start an integrated course of training at Oxford Aviation on the APP. I have already passed the Class 1 medical and the secection process at Oxford and I am considering whether to start as soon as possibe or leave it a while.
I am 18 years old, 19 in September! What I am asking is, do you think that when I am gualified (provided nothing goes wrong) and in a postion to apply for a job, will potential employers view me as too young, bearing in mind that I will be not much more than 20! I have already decided that I am not going to university as I think it would only be a waste of time and money, when what I want to do is be an airline pilot!
Thanks for your time!
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Did you not look at the Leeds University course?
I am on it myself and it`ll give you a lot of background knowledge, a degree and a PPL (At a reduced rate!)
I have not yet found it a waste of time or money and should you be left in an unemployable situation you will have a degree to be able to work in another part of the industry.
I am on it myself and it`ll give you a lot of background knowledge, a degree and a PPL (At a reduced rate!)
I have not yet found it a waste of time or money and should you be left in an unemployable situation you will have a degree to be able to work in another part of the industry.
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Glider12000,
I had looked at that option, but I decided that by the time I would have completed the course, I would have already been in a certain degree of debt, and this would not help in funding the rest of the training to meet airline entry requirements.
I do realise that some kind of back up plan is very important but, in hoping that airline recruitment will have improved by the time I am in a position to apply for a job, I felt that this was not the route too take!
Do you think that airlines would employ someone who is not yet 21?
I had looked at that option, but I decided that by the time I would have completed the course, I would have already been in a certain degree of debt, and this would not help in funding the rest of the training to meet airline entry requirements.
I do realise that some kind of back up plan is very important but, in hoping that airline recruitment will have improved by the time I am in a position to apply for a job, I felt that this was not the route too take!
Do you think that airlines would employ someone who is not yet 21?
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i think it`d be on the number of hours you would have and your overall experience. So a 21 year old, straight out of a flight training establishment wouldn`t be what they were looking for. Ensuring that you would have a decent amount of hours and got type rated on an aircraft which has positions available would be important