CPL/ATPL qualifying hours requirements

[pipergirl]

This mix and matching of Licenses and ratings under JAR is great in theory but in practise it is very rare that it actually works smoothly

don't agree with that statement at all...a sweeping generisation I think

I know many people who are working who got JAR licences in the States and then did the IR in Europe...it all ran smoothly for them

[bellyfluffer]

Yeah M-J
I see what you mean about 'easy options' but to be honest the saving i can get by doing the me+ir in spain is rather more than £3000 and finances are tight now!

I do know of a couple of people that have had no problem or issue having their me+ir issued by the UK on return (see recent spain threads)

I do agree that in an ideal world i would prefer to do it all here in the UK but with the money and weather issues this is definately my better option

cheers again

[BillieBob]

How does the spanish situation stand then, are they in breach of jaa/jar?

It is not possible to be 'in breach' of JARs as they are only Requirements and not Regulations. It is the case that the national law of most member states prevents that state from complying with one part or another of JARs, which is why the move to EASA regulation is seen by some as a step forward. The fact remains that if a member state does not conduct itself in accordance with JARs, the other states are not obliged to accept its training, licences, ratings and so on. That does not mean that the UK CAA will refuse to accept the training for an IR in Spain just because a night qualification is not a pre-requisite for the course - but it would be fully justified in refusing should it choose to do so.

I know many people who are working who got JAR licences in the States and then did the IR in Europe

Apart from the fact that nobody 'got JAR licences in the States', this is hardly relevant to M-J's point. All JAA licence training in the US is approved by a JAA member state, which will issue the licence, just as though the training was done at a FTO within that state. However, there have been examples where certain states have refused to accept training completed in the US for type and instrument ratings and have refused to add the relevant ratings to their licences. The UK has a reputation for accepting almost anything in the way of training in other states but, even so, there are examples where they have refused to add ratings to UK issued JAA licences because the training has not been carried out in accordance with JAR-FCL.

[A330 Dreamer]

CPL/I.R Hour requirements clarification

Morning All,

I am on the understanding that prior to c.p.l training you need:

150 hours total time
70 of which must be P-I-C
50 of those hours must be cross country

Does this mean 50 landaways or can it include local navigation exercises?

If I've got this understanding totally wrong can someone clarify for me.

Thanks

[Deano777]

Hiya 330

my understanding is that you need this to actually start the course

150hrs total time
20hrs cross country, which I think means flights outside the ATZ
14 passes in the ATPL or CPL theory subjects.
For license issue you need 200hrs flight time, including 100 PIC, 10hrs instrument time, 5hrs night (obviously your night qual), have completed a 300nm cross country flight including 2 full stop landings at airfields other than your starting point
Have a class 1 medical
Have completed the 14 ATPL or the CPL theory subjects

Hope this helps, I'm sure people will add or correct anything, but for a definative list check LASORS

Rgds

Dean

[LFS]

Dean thats basically correct. The 70 hours pic that A330 talks about is only relevant if completing the CPL on a Multi as 70 hour pic is the minimum for a M/E rating.

[mbcxharm]

A cross country flight in the UK is one that goes more than 3nm from your departure aerodrome, so anything where you didn't remain in the circuit basically.

LASORS contains this definition.

[Keygrip]

A330 - you've been given answers to your questions - mind if I ask you one?

What gave you the understanding that you listed as pre-requisites for the course? Was it something you read - or something somebody told you?

[kissmysquirrel]

Suggest you download a 'free' copy of Lasors and read up. New one will be out soon too. I believe you can do the night rating as part of your CPL course so not required first.

[Deano777]

You need the Night Qual for license issue, not to start the CPL, you need the 300nm QXC to start

[Hour Builder]

Originally Posted by Deano777

you need the 300nm QXC to start

Where in Lasors does it state this?

[Bandit650]

I was under the assumption you can do the 300nm QXC as part of the CPL but would need to check...

[Mercenary Pilot]

Where in Lasors does it state this?

It doesn't, QXC is for issue.

Experience
Flying completed on the course may be counted
towards meeting the flying experience requirements for
licence issue as detailed below.

An applicant for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) must have
completed a minimum of 200 hours of flight time,
including the particular requirements specified in a, b
and c below. These must be flown in aeroplanes
irrespective of any credits applicable under D1.2(D)
Notes below:-

a) i) 100 hours as Pilot-in-Command, or 70 hours
as Pilot-in-Command if completed during a
course of integrated flying training;

ii) 20 hours of VFR flight time as
Pilot-in-Command, including a cross-country
flight totalling at least 540 km (300 nm) in the
course of which full-stop landings at two
aerodromes different from the aerodromes of
departure shall be made.


b) 10 hours of instrument dual instruction time
(for applicants without an IR), of which not
more that 5 hours is to be instrument ground
time (in a FNPT I or II or a Flight Simulator).


c) 5 hours Night Flying comprising of at least 3
hours of dual instruction, including at least 1
hour of cross-country navigation, and 5 solo
take-offs and full-stop landings.

[Linda Mollison]

Lasors does say:

"Flying completed on the course may be counted towards meeting the flying experience requirements for licence issue as detailed below"

But:

The only PIC time you will get on the course will be the successful skill test so the QXC will have to be done outside the course (you need landings at two airfields other than the one of departure).

And Lasors says:

"An applicant who does not already hold a Night Qualification/Rating shall be given additionally at least 5 hours night flight instruction" so this will also have to be done outside the course.

The 10 hours dual instrument flying is part of the course.

Linda Mollison

[Hour Builder]

Originally Posted by Linda Mollison

Lasors does say:
"Flying completed on the course may be counted towards meeting the flying experience requirements for licence issue as detailed below"
But:
The only PIC time you will get on the course will be the successful skill test so the QXC will have to be done outside the course (you need landings at two airfields other than the one of departure).
And Lasors says:
"An applicant who does not already hold a Night Qualification/Rating shall be given additionally at least 5 hours night flight instruction" so this will also have to be done outside the course.
The 10 hours dual instrument flying is part of the course.
Linda Mollison

Ok you are quoting Lasors but reading it wrong. The QXC says, "The only PIC time you will get on the course will be the successful skill test" there is nothing stoping somene hiring a plane and doing it mid-way through the course. This flight is not part of that CPL course (25 or 28 hr) so can count. If it says "The QXC must be done before the start of CPL course" then it must be done, it doesnt state that so its not required.
If the night rating is not held, then it is done as part of the CPL course, so the course changes from 25 to a 30 hour CPL course.
HB

[BlueRobin]

'1818, take a look and digest for yourself

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf

[Hour Builder]

there's some bedtime reading

[BlueRobin]

Many a weather-grounded student bores themself to death with it whilst waiting for better conditions. Either that or the POH

[Mercenary Pilot]

Many a weather-grounded student bores themself to death with it whilst waiting for better conditions. Either that or the POH

Always prefered FHM myself.

Hour Builder

I think you mis-understand what Linda was saying. All the P/ut, instrument (and night if needed) hours done on the course count towards your TT for CPL issue.

However, there is NO PIC hours on the CPL course (its all done with an instructor) so the QXC must be done in your own time. If you do this half way through your CPL training then fine but it is "outside" the syllabus and not part of the course.

[Deano777]

Apologies if I got that wrong and mis-lead, I was told this by a "senior" before the commencement of my CPL so took it on face value