My experience from PPL to 1st Job!
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Mo91 have a read of the sticky thread at the top of the forum, you will find most of your questions and more answered there:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
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Multi Crew Co-Operation
MO91,
MCC stands for Multi Crew Co-Operation. It is usually done at the end of training after the IR/CPL. Its purpose is to put you in a multi crew environment as upto this point all your flying will have been "Single Pilot".
In other words to get you used to communicating as a team on the flight deck and make the decision making process a joint one. All done in a simulator, around 20hrs, split between pilot flying and pilot not flying, not to be confused with a Type Rating, which it is not.
Hope that helps
Dan98
MCC stands for Multi Crew Co-Operation. It is usually done at the end of training after the IR/CPL. Its purpose is to put you in a multi crew environment as upto this point all your flying will have been "Single Pilot".
In other words to get you used to communicating as a team on the flight deck and make the decision making process a joint one. All done in a simulator, around 20hrs, split between pilot flying and pilot not flying, not to be confused with a Type Rating, which it is not.
Hope that helps
Dan98
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Hi Dan,
I've enjoyed reading your post, well done!
Could you answer me a few questions please.
I know most people are on a tight budget whilst doing their training, including me, thats why im looking at the cheapest options.
Why did you choose to do all your training in the UK, as I simply cannot afford to do that? Im planning on doing the JAA CPL ME in the USA and the IR in spain, that way you can get it done for less than 15 grand.
Also why did you choose to do the MCC with JetLinx, when you can get it virtually a £1000 cheaper at Oxford on a 737?
Its just got me thinking, will i be at a disadvantage for not doing my training in the UK? does in matter where you do your MCC?
I was going to start my ATPLs at Bristol, but I found them extremely rude when talking to them. So ive decided to go distance learing at Oxford, its cheaper there anyway. I too will be working full time whilst doing these, how long did it take you to complete them all?
Thank you
I've enjoyed reading your post, well done!
Could you answer me a few questions please.
I know most people are on a tight budget whilst doing their training, including me, thats why im looking at the cheapest options.
Why did you choose to do all your training in the UK, as I simply cannot afford to do that? Im planning on doing the JAA CPL ME in the USA and the IR in spain, that way you can get it done for less than 15 grand.
Also why did you choose to do the MCC with JetLinx, when you can get it virtually a £1000 cheaper at Oxford on a 737?
Its just got me thinking, will i be at a disadvantage for not doing my training in the UK? does in matter where you do your MCC?
I was going to start my ATPLs at Bristol, but I found them extremely rude when talking to them. So ive decided to go distance learing at Oxford, its cheaper there anyway. I too will be working full time whilst doing these, how long did it take you to complete them all?
Thank you
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davey147,
Q:Why did you choose to do all your training in the UK?
A: Just worked out that way for me, didn't really want to be away for any longer than I needed to be with a family etc... It was more expensive, but I did get quite a good rate, and I think good experience in UK conditions. But it would be way cheaper in the states. Plenty of people go to the states and have no problems, if it suits you, go for it. I think the most important thing is to try and do your professional training in one place if possible.
Q:Also why did you choose to do the MCC with JetLinx, when you can get it virtually a £1000 cheaper at Oxford on a 737?
A:Jetlinx were recommended to me by a few people I knew, it was also convenient for me to travel to, ie. no acomodation required, and I also did it with a friend who I had done my IR/CPL with. as you say there are plenty of other places to go that are cheaper etc... and I stated in my original post it is not necessary to spend that money, you can do it on a TP for £1,500 and get the same tick in the box.
Q:Its just got me thinking, will i be at a disadvantage for not doing my training in the UK? does in matter where you do your MCC?
A:Not sure on this one, I think all at the same place is a must. Personal choice to an extent, but I would say this, you plan to fly in the UK I am guessing, so training in UK airspace may be preferable. I have never flown in the states so am not the best person to ask I'm afraid.
I don't think it matters where you do your MCC, it is a tick in the box.
Q:I was going to start my ATPLs at Bristol, but I found them extremely rude when talking to them.
A:Thats a shame, they are very good and have a really great reputation, sure you just caught someone on bad day. Thats not to say that Oxford aren't good as well, but I found Bristol to be really very good. Put it like this, they got me through first time with all 14, and 4 other guys I know who I went through with.
What i will say in general terms is this, everyone does the training in different ways, your personal circumstances will dictate this. But I have not got a job because of where i did my training, or where I went for my MCC.
Cheers
Dan98
Q:Why did you choose to do all your training in the UK?
A: Just worked out that way for me, didn't really want to be away for any longer than I needed to be with a family etc... It was more expensive, but I did get quite a good rate, and I think good experience in UK conditions. But it would be way cheaper in the states. Plenty of people go to the states and have no problems, if it suits you, go for it. I think the most important thing is to try and do your professional training in one place if possible.
Q:Also why did you choose to do the MCC with JetLinx, when you can get it virtually a £1000 cheaper at Oxford on a 737?
A:Jetlinx were recommended to me by a few people I knew, it was also convenient for me to travel to, ie. no acomodation required, and I also did it with a friend who I had done my IR/CPL with. as you say there are plenty of other places to go that are cheaper etc... and I stated in my original post it is not necessary to spend that money, you can do it on a TP for £1,500 and get the same tick in the box.
Q:Its just got me thinking, will i be at a disadvantage for not doing my training in the UK? does in matter where you do your MCC?
A:Not sure on this one, I think all at the same place is a must. Personal choice to an extent, but I would say this, you plan to fly in the UK I am guessing, so training in UK airspace may be preferable. I have never flown in the states so am not the best person to ask I'm afraid.
I don't think it matters where you do your MCC, it is a tick in the box.
Q:I was going to start my ATPLs at Bristol, but I found them extremely rude when talking to them.
A:Thats a shame, they are very good and have a really great reputation, sure you just caught someone on bad day. Thats not to say that Oxford aren't good as well, but I found Bristol to be really very good. Put it like this, they got me through first time with all 14, and 4 other guys I know who I went through with.
What i will say in general terms is this, everyone does the training in different ways, your personal circumstances will dictate this. But I have not got a job because of where i did my training, or where I went for my MCC.
Cheers
Dan98
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Costs 0-FATPL
rogueflyer01,
I did not keep a break down, but guess who did MY WIFE!!!!!
Medical - £422
PPL / Night - £7,455 inc some hour building.
PPL licence issue - £149
Exams - £240
Misc - £130
Hour building in C172 in the Uk - £10,905 to take me to 100hrsP1 and 150hrsTT
Mod 1 books - £1,800
Mod 1 accomodation and exams - £750
Mod 2 books - £1,200
Mod 2 accomodation and exams - £750
Medical renewal £200
Accomodation for IR / CPL - £1,000 for 12 weeks
Fuel to travel home at weekends - £400
IR - £12,100
IR test - £691
Multi - £1,999
CPL - £3,600
CPL test - £691
Licence issue - £210
Medical renewal - £175
MCC Course - £3,450
Fuel to attend - £100
Total is £49,500 approx.
Crikey!!! No wonder she kept tabs on it, gonna take me a long time to make that up to her!
That does not include our living costs whilst I was at Bristol flying centre from March - June.
No question doing all the flying in the UK pushed the costs up, also Bristol Flying Centre are not the cheapest, but I felt they were a good choice, even though it meant being away from home for 12 weeks. So I dare say you could do it a lot cheaper if you had to.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Dan98
I did not keep a break down, but guess who did MY WIFE!!!!!
Medical - £422
PPL / Night - £7,455 inc some hour building.
PPL licence issue - £149
Exams - £240
Misc - £130
Hour building in C172 in the Uk - £10,905 to take me to 100hrsP1 and 150hrsTT
Mod 1 books - £1,800
Mod 1 accomodation and exams - £750
Mod 2 books - £1,200
Mod 2 accomodation and exams - £750
Medical renewal £200
Accomodation for IR / CPL - £1,000 for 12 weeks
Fuel to travel home at weekends - £400
IR - £12,100
IR test - £691
Multi - £1,999
CPL - £3,600
CPL test - £691
Licence issue - £210
Medical renewal - £175
MCC Course - £3,450
Fuel to attend - £100
Total is £49,500 approx.
Crikey!!! No wonder she kept tabs on it, gonna take me a long time to make that up to her!
That does not include our living costs whilst I was at Bristol flying centre from March - June.
No question doing all the flying in the UK pushed the costs up, also Bristol Flying Centre are not the cheapest, but I felt they were a good choice, even though it meant being away from home for 12 weeks. So I dare say you could do it a lot cheaper if you had to.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Dan98
im going to have to look at things in more detail.
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Cheers Dan 
One last thing, are you actually paying for your type rating? The only reason i ask is that i sent baby an e-mail a number of years ago (late 2003) asking them if they hire low hours pilots..they said yes but only if you are willing to pay for your rating...just wondering ... best of luck m8
One last thing, are you actually paying for your type rating? The only reason i ask is that i sent baby an e-mail a number of years ago (late 2003) asking them if they hire low hours pilots..they said yes but only if you are willing to pay for your rating...just wondering ... best of luck m8
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Ive got my JAA PPL for about $6,000 (£3,100)
FAA IR for $5,000 (£2,600)
Convert it to JAA for £4,000
Hour Building $6,000 (£3,100)
JAA CPL for $5,000 (£2,600)
ATPL ground school £2,000 (distance)
MCC £1,900
The above comes to £19,300 which is well below 25k, but i guess with accomodation it'll push it up. The prices are approx, but ive estimated high.
You can also do the JAA IR in spain for about 8k. Its cheap (well in flight training terms) if you do the training in the USA.
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25k Max is very optimistic imo....Even if you do it all in the states for example at £19,999 (Riverside charge this, not including flights, test fees, accomodation, MCC etc etc)...
With all the extra costs, you will easily spend another 10-15k IMO - all your prices are based in minimum training requirements....if you budget 25k max, you may be caught with your trousers down!!
With all the extra costs, you will easily spend another 10-15k IMO - all your prices are based in minimum training requirements....if you budget 25k max, you may be caught with your trousers down!!
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Congratulations
An awesome read Dan, congratulations on the job front, and im sure after all that hard work, not just you, but your family must be proud of you! And i suppose reassured that you have actually got a job after spending all that money. Im now in the position you was in at the start, ' A very small fish in a big pond'. Having completed my first solo flight 1 month ago (which is an achievement in its own right) feels like it will be forever before i have all the relevant documentation to start applying for jobs.
You should have become an author instead!!!
On a serious note i wish you all the best, and again well done.
You should have become an author instead!!!
On a serious note i wish you all the best, and again well done.
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Well the 25k includes accomodation etc too.
Ive got my JAA PPL for about $6,000 (£3,100)
FAA IR for $5,000 (£2,600)
Convert it to JAA for £4,000
Hour Building $6,000 (£3,100)
JAA CPL for $5,000 (£2,600)
ATPL ground school £2,000 (distance)
MCC £1,900
The above comes to £19,300 which is well below 25k, but i guess with accomodation it'll push it up. The prices are approx, but ive estimated high.
You can also do the JAA IR in spain for about 8k. Its cheap (well in flight training terms) if you do the training in the USA.
Ive got my JAA PPL for about $6,000 (£3,100)
FAA IR for $5,000 (£2,600)
Convert it to JAA for £4,000
Hour Building $6,000 (£3,100)
JAA CPL for $5,000 (£2,600)
ATPL ground school £2,000 (distance)
MCC £1,900
The above comes to £19,300 which is well below 25k, but i guess with accomodation it'll push it up. The prices are approx, but ive estimated high.
You can also do the JAA IR in spain for about 8k. Its cheap (well in flight training terms) if you do the training in the USA.
Also you haven't budgeted for any fees? Eg it costs around £1000 to sit the IRT, circa £770 for the exams. Then there's the CPL test, the Multi stamp on your licence...I had £500 worth of approach fees alone. Then there's the Medical, your Visa, your flights to and from the states, your accomodation.
I reckon you won't get much change out 30K - 35K minimum.
Anyway, back to the thread...Dan98 - CONGRATS mate. I was actually at Bristol with you. I finished as you joined. I knew you were made of the right stuff. Very enthusiastic and determined...
I'll send you a pm..
Last edited by Gillespie; 4th Dec 2006 at 15:21. Reason: Had to up my estimate.