JAA ATPL Distance Learning Ground School
Join Date: Dec 2006
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i don't think there is a "best school" out there.. I can tell you that some schools are good but not best..next person that writes an answer to you can say that instead of the schools i named "b" and "c" are better.. and so on..
distance learning is going to depend quite much in YOU, your discipline, time, effort.. The school will just give you feedback when you need it or either the students in the forums will do..
You have probably heard about Oxford Aviation Training, Bristol, Cabair,FTE...etc.
The best thing you can do is check directly with the schools and see what they offer you.
Good luck with your studies!
distance learning is going to depend quite much in YOU, your discipline, time, effort.. The school will just give you feedback when you need it or either the students in the forums will do..
You have probably heard about Oxford Aviation Training, Bristol, Cabair,FTE...etc.
The best thing you can do is check directly with the schools and see what they offer you.
Good luck with your studies!
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Working Full Time and ATPL Part Time
Hi guys/gals
Just a quick question as to whether anyone has recent experience of studying the ATPL exams by correspondence (I am planning Cabair at the moment), while working a normal full-time, day job. Luckily I have no real family commitments but do have a full time job which can involve long hours. Aside from what the schools say, just how much time have people found they have had to spend studying and is it realistic to do so while working. (realising everyone learns at a different pace).
I have realised that personal circumstances are such that mine has to be the modular route and am hoping to start the ATPL theory at the end of the year. If I want to fly, I have to make it work either way and find the time to do the study but any stories/tips would be a huge help.
Cheers
Denning
Just a quick question as to whether anyone has recent experience of studying the ATPL exams by correspondence (I am planning Cabair at the moment), while working a normal full-time, day job. Luckily I have no real family commitments but do have a full time job which can involve long hours. Aside from what the schools say, just how much time have people found they have had to spend studying and is it realistic to do so while working. (realising everyone learns at a different pace).
I have realised that personal circumstances are such that mine has to be the modular route and am hoping to start the ATPL theory at the end of the year. If I want to fly, I have to make it work either way and find the time to do the study but any stories/tips would be a huge help.
Cheers
Denning
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Hi Denning
I work 60-70 hours a week in the city and I am doing the ATPL exams distance learning.... I started last April and will have them all wrapped up this April (fingers crossed).
The toughest part I found has been finding the time off work to do the compulsory class room part of the course and the exams as you have to use up quite a bit of holiday for this.
Other than that frankly I haven't found it too bad to be honest.... tend to always have one of the books to hand when I go anywhere followed by 2-3 weeks of intensive book bashing leading up to the exams
Also I am doing the exams in 3 rather than the usual 2 sittings (10 exams down 4 to go!).... makes life a lot easier I think. As does an interest in all things flying related which means (some of) the stuff you learn is actually quite interesting.
So in answer to your question yes it is certainly very possible to do although naturally you will have to sacrifice a few weekends to hit the books leading up to the exams.
Hope it all works out for you
GSB
I work 60-70 hours a week in the city and I am doing the ATPL exams distance learning.... I started last April and will have them all wrapped up this April (fingers crossed).
The toughest part I found has been finding the time off work to do the compulsory class room part of the course and the exams as you have to use up quite a bit of holiday for this.
Other than that frankly I haven't found it too bad to be honest.... tend to always have one of the books to hand when I go anywhere followed by 2-3 weeks of intensive book bashing leading up to the exams
Also I am doing the exams in 3 rather than the usual 2 sittings (10 exams down 4 to go!).... makes life a lot easier I think. As does an interest in all things flying related which means (some of) the stuff you learn is actually quite interesting.
So in answer to your question yes it is certainly very possible to do although naturally you will have to sacrifice a few weekends to hit the books leading up to the exams.
Hope it all works out for you
GSB
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Aaaarghhh!.. the whole Bristol / oxford / GTS decsion is doing my nut! 
I have just finished reading this entire thread, and am still mildly confused.
I am leaning towards going with OAT,backed up by BGS computer stuff and Q bank....
I had a spy at some GTS notes for the CPL theory the other day, and was mildly put off by the monchrome presentation compared to the nice colourdy pics in the Oxford books. Are the BGS books colour? I know this sounds silly, but these things make a difference sometimes.
Happy swatting!
I have just finished reading this entire thread, and am still mildly confused.
I am leaning towards going with OAT,backed up by BGS computer stuff and Q bank....
I had a spy at some GTS notes for the CPL theory the other day, and was mildly put off by the monchrome presentation compared to the nice colourdy pics in the Oxford books. Are the BGS books colour? I know this sounds silly, but these things make a difference sometimes.
Happy swatting!
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Big Als,
Im currently with GTS on the ATPL course. The guys there are excellent and always happy to help and provide support, and you can drop in at any time and they always have time for you.
However..... the notes...
The notes are comprehensive in the extreme if im honest. Getting through them is like trying to run through chest high water! To provide an example, I went to the Flyer exhibition in Nov and nearly fell over when I saw Bristols and even the Jepp manuals. Bristol have all 14 subjets covered in the 7 folders, two subjects per folder! GTS have 14 folders! and the content (sheer amount of material to get through) of one subject in one folder, practically totals two of Bristols subjects in single folder.
Bristols notes are designed to get you through the exams, what you need to know, plain and simple. They are colour too.
To sum up, if you want an encyclopedia of ATPLS choose GTS. If just want the material to get you through the exams (most of us do!!) choose bristol.
Ill say it again though, cant fault the GTS service and support.
cheers
Expedite
Im currently with GTS on the ATPL course. The guys there are excellent and always happy to help and provide support, and you can drop in at any time and they always have time for you.
However..... the notes...
The notes are comprehensive in the extreme if im honest. Getting through them is like trying to run through chest high water! To provide an example, I went to the Flyer exhibition in Nov and nearly fell over when I saw Bristols and even the Jepp manuals. Bristol have all 14 subjets covered in the 7 folders, two subjects per folder! GTS have 14 folders! and the content (sheer amount of material to get through) of one subject in one folder, practically totals two of Bristols subjects in single folder.
Bristols notes are designed to get you through the exams, what you need to know, plain and simple. They are colour too.
To sum up, if you want an encyclopedia of ATPLS choose GTS. If just want the material to get you through the exams (most of us do!!) choose bristol.
Ill say it again though, cant fault the GTS service and support.
cheers
Expedite
Better red than ...
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I did the GS with GTS. The notes are "comprehensive" and certainly provide a detailed reference library for the future as well, not just to pass the exams.
It's still worth signing up to the BGS on line exam system whoever you train with - you pay the same. Or the Oxford CD. I have a copy of the CD which you are welcome to borrow if you go GTS (it's on loan at present to another student).
The real decision between the three schools is one of style and scale. GTS is seminars (6 people in the room) with the professor. I believe the other two have bigger class sizes.
All a question of choice. They all get results.
h-r
It's still worth signing up to the BGS on line exam system whoever you train with - you pay the same. Or the Oxford CD. I have a copy of the CD which you are welcome to borrow if you go GTS (it's on loan at present to another student).
The real decision between the three schools is one of style and scale. GTS is seminars (6 people in the room) with the professor. I believe the other two have bigger class sizes.
All a question of choice. They all get results.
h-r
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Hi, Exactly the same course work notes, accept it has motion graphics to show how some things work and it also has a couple of trainers and graphical displays for you to watch, on subjects GPWS and ILS approaches. It's very usefull and I found it better than the notes to work from. It also has all the progress tests, which can then be submitted on line rather than sending them in by snail mail...
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Ground school
Hey
Recently went along to one of the Oxford open days to discover my options when it comes to progressing on self funded training.
I went down with an open mind but was concentrating mostly on the modular route distance learning steps.
After seeing how intense the ground school section of the course is I'm now considering full time ground school but that will pose a problem when it comes to the money side, getting time off work side and the inevitable girlfriend side...
So essentially, would anyone with experience of holding down a job whilst carrying out the minimum 3 hours study a day for distance learning ground school please share your opinions and experiences of what it was like?
Many thanks in advance,
Ian
Recently went along to one of the Oxford open days to discover my options when it comes to progressing on self funded training.
I went down with an open mind but was concentrating mostly on the modular route distance learning steps.
After seeing how intense the ground school section of the course is I'm now considering full time ground school but that will pose a problem when it comes to the money side, getting time off work side and the inevitable girlfriend side...
So essentially, would anyone with experience of holding down a job whilst carrying out the minimum 3 hours study a day for distance learning ground school please share your opinions and experiences of what it was like?
Many thanks in advance,
Ian
Join Date: May 2001
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have to say on the girlfriend side, i ended up splitting with mine because i'm going to OAT. it sucks but do you want to do this for the rest of your life? if you could overcome the work bit, the girlfriend bit should come second. full time takes less time and is more focussed imho, you will be surrounded by people who are doing the same work as you, you'll be around the instructors, the support is a1 for d/l fair enough but for me there's no substitue than being face to face with the person who knows the answer, and it'll be over sooner.
just my two cents
just my two cents
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Right...
I have just enroled on the Bristol ATPL course having coughed up the required cash! Allegedly the first book of words will be with me tomorrow!
Thanks to all for the advice etc!
I have just enroled on the Bristol ATPL course having coughed up the required cash! Allegedly the first book of words will be with me tomorrow!
Thanks to all for the advice etc!
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Distance Learning Advice to New Students - Bristol GS vs. others
Hello Everyone,
I am an FAA licensed ATPL and Instructor. I work as a freight pilot flying Twin Otters and am a former owner of a California based flight school which was very successful. I am starting this thread to share my experience and advise those interested in JAA distance learning courses.
Currently, I am in the process of converting my licenses to a JAA FATPL. Like many others, the cost of training was my foremost consideration. Approaching the training with this consideration has, however, resulted in costing me more time and money. (approximately an additional 1500 GBP)
Choosing a quality ATPL Distance Learning school should be an aspiring commercial pilot's first consideration for the following reasons.
The JAA standards of theoretical learning are much higher than those of the FAA. The 14 tested subjects of the ATPL are highly extensive and time consuming to study. Ground instruction for the FAA written subjects can be accomplished in a time frame of less than 90 hours; whereas, the JAA requires approximately 720 hours. The possible number of FAA questions for the Private, Instrument, Commercial and ATPL range between 2500-3500. Those for the JAA 14 written exams are over 16000 exceeding the FAA by approximately 80%.
Any newly established JAA distance learning groundschool (in the range of 6-8 years old) will not have enough years of experience in which to standardize and catch flaws in their own written material. The written material for each subject is developed to teach in a classroom environment and not at the distance learning level meaning that these materials will contain a lot of classroom instructor notes. A subject material may consist of nothing more than instructor notes without written, detailed explanation. These types of materials are handled best by instructors during oral explanation in a classroom environment.
For example, it is important to explain formulas so the student thoroughly understands the material and any subsequent teachings. The following formula is important to understand INSTRUMENT and GENERAL NAVIGATION subjects.
Distance = 60 x COSIN Latitude x Number of degrees in Longitudinal change
A distance learning book should provide a layman explanation of each part of this formula.
In my experience, I had enrolled in Naples Air Center's JAA Distance Learning program. The program sent me classroom notes as materials on each of the 14 JAA subjects, and I spent countless hours trying to understand formulas such as these. Because the books were horribly written, I was forced to purchase additional reference material. So I purchased a CD from Bristol Groundschool in the amount of 350GBP. It was an organized CD that helped me to understand things clearly. The CD included all of Bristol GS self written texts and interactive animations and illustrations. To add, the NAC distance learning website consisted of quiz questions that were not pertinent to the end-of-chapter reading material. I was always confused. There were also word for word written similarities between Bristol GS CD and Naples Air Center's texts as if one copied from the other.
At Naples Air Center, the Head of Ground Training understood his school's material was not well written and switched to Jeppesen. Jeppesen material is very detailed; however, it contains too much information that is not necessary to learn and will not be, otherwise, tested on the JAA exam. Each Jeppesen text ranges between 350-500 pages. These texts are excellent because they are full of information and detailed explanation; however, for the distance learning student, the Jeppesen texts contain too much unnecessary reading information making the student easily overwhelmed and confused about the information that needs to be "understood" at a comprehensive level for the exam. As classroom material, the Jeppesen texts are a valuable tool to both the instructor and student on an interpersonal basis in a classroom environment. For the distance learning student, the abundance of material is daunting. I would also have to question the new NAC distance learning website. The quizzes are based on an Italian JAA exam database as the NAC Head of Ground Training had explained. It is a new program. I do not think NAC has had time to plug the proper questions from the database to the relevant Jeppesen study chapters. Their last website demonstrated this concern. It is in my opinion NAC is conglomerating confusion -again- by throwing things together into this new program.
In conclusion, I have been impressed with Bristol Groundschool as a Distance Learning provider. Bristol Groundschool has been in the market much longer than many others and has nearly perfected their course. There will not be any running around to understand the studies as a "self learning" student. I will be leaving Naples Air Center and continuing my JAA studies with Bristol as well as using the Jeppesen texts as guides of supplementary reference. Bristol Groundschool offers a free sample CD and I recommend ordering it. It is sent for free. It provides examples of end-of-chapter quizzes with questions straight from the JAA exam as well as animations.
I did not write this post to merely complain. It was written to inform all those spending exceeding amounts of money to fulfill their dreams to fly professionally because, at one time, I cared about my students. Be careful and do not skim on costs. It will bite you in the end. It bit me.
Good luck to all Distance Learning students. Feel free to write anytime.
I am an FAA licensed ATPL and Instructor. I work as a freight pilot flying Twin Otters and am a former owner of a California based flight school which was very successful. I am starting this thread to share my experience and advise those interested in JAA distance learning courses.
Currently, I am in the process of converting my licenses to a JAA FATPL. Like many others, the cost of training was my foremost consideration. Approaching the training with this consideration has, however, resulted in costing me more time and money. (approximately an additional 1500 GBP)
Choosing a quality ATPL Distance Learning school should be an aspiring commercial pilot's first consideration for the following reasons.
The JAA standards of theoretical learning are much higher than those of the FAA. The 14 tested subjects of the ATPL are highly extensive and time consuming to study. Ground instruction for the FAA written subjects can be accomplished in a time frame of less than 90 hours; whereas, the JAA requires approximately 720 hours. The possible number of FAA questions for the Private, Instrument, Commercial and ATPL range between 2500-3500. Those for the JAA 14 written exams are over 16000 exceeding the FAA by approximately 80%.
Any newly established JAA distance learning groundschool (in the range of 6-8 years old) will not have enough years of experience in which to standardize and catch flaws in their own written material. The written material for each subject is developed to teach in a classroom environment and not at the distance learning level meaning that these materials will contain a lot of classroom instructor notes. A subject material may consist of nothing more than instructor notes without written, detailed explanation. These types of materials are handled best by instructors during oral explanation in a classroom environment.
For example, it is important to explain formulas so the student thoroughly understands the material and any subsequent teachings. The following formula is important to understand INSTRUMENT and GENERAL NAVIGATION subjects.
Distance = 60 x COSIN Latitude x Number of degrees in Longitudinal change
A distance learning book should provide a layman explanation of each part of this formula.
In my experience, I had enrolled in Naples Air Center's JAA Distance Learning program. The program sent me classroom notes as materials on each of the 14 JAA subjects, and I spent countless hours trying to understand formulas such as these. Because the books were horribly written, I was forced to purchase additional reference material. So I purchased a CD from Bristol Groundschool in the amount of 350GBP. It was an organized CD that helped me to understand things clearly. The CD included all of Bristol GS self written texts and interactive animations and illustrations. To add, the NAC distance learning website consisted of quiz questions that were not pertinent to the end-of-chapter reading material. I was always confused. There were also word for word written similarities between Bristol GS CD and Naples Air Center's texts as if one copied from the other.
At Naples Air Center, the Head of Ground Training understood his school's material was not well written and switched to Jeppesen. Jeppesen material is very detailed; however, it contains too much information that is not necessary to learn and will not be, otherwise, tested on the JAA exam. Each Jeppesen text ranges between 350-500 pages. These texts are excellent because they are full of information and detailed explanation; however, for the distance learning student, the Jeppesen texts contain too much unnecessary reading information making the student easily overwhelmed and confused about the information that needs to be "understood" at a comprehensive level for the exam. As classroom material, the Jeppesen texts are a valuable tool to both the instructor and student on an interpersonal basis in a classroom environment. For the distance learning student, the abundance of material is daunting. I would also have to question the new NAC distance learning website. The quizzes are based on an Italian JAA exam database as the NAC Head of Ground Training had explained. It is a new program. I do not think NAC has had time to plug the proper questions from the database to the relevant Jeppesen study chapters. Their last website demonstrated this concern. It is in my opinion NAC is conglomerating confusion -again- by throwing things together into this new program.
In conclusion, I have been impressed with Bristol Groundschool as a Distance Learning provider. Bristol Groundschool has been in the market much longer than many others and has nearly perfected their course. There will not be any running around to understand the studies as a "self learning" student. I will be leaving Naples Air Center and continuing my JAA studies with Bristol as well as using the Jeppesen texts as guides of supplementary reference. Bristol Groundschool offers a free sample CD and I recommend ordering it. It is sent for free. It provides examples of end-of-chapter quizzes with questions straight from the JAA exam as well as animations.
I did not write this post to merely complain. It was written to inform all those spending exceeding amounts of money to fulfill their dreams to fly professionally because, at one time, I cared about my students. Be careful and do not skim on costs. It will bite you in the end. It bit me.
Good luck to all Distance Learning students. Feel free to write anytime.
Last edited by Pilotadler; 25th Mar 2007 at 16:35.
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Intensive, more or less on-demand ATPL ground school?
Hi there, I am at the moment in the process of studying the theory for my ATPL exams. Or at least, I nominally am.
The case is that, since I signed up with one of the distance ground schools last year, I have had little opportunity to actually study for any of the subjects. That is due to a series of work and personal commitments, as well as simply getting sidetracked a bit too often
So I have decided that I will start sitting my exams at the earliest opportunity, one at a time if necessary (yes, I'm aware of the 18 month limit) so I get the theory part out of the way. I must say, I find it very interesting, but I don't want to keep dragging this on forever.
I work on a five weeks on, then five weeks off schedule, and I was thinking the best way to go about it might be to disappear from my usual places and attend ground school during all or part of those five weeks, concentrating on only one or two subjects at a time, and doing the respective exams at the end of it. That way, I could concentrate on the studying bit without things (such as actually having a life ) getting in the way.
Now, I am unaware of anyone offering such a walk-in/walk-out sort of training regime. The closest I can think of are the brush-up courses with the distance schools, and that is one option I will explore directly with them. However, I was wondering if anyone here has any other ideas to offer that I could explore, advise, similar experiences, etc.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
/lh2
The case is that, since I signed up with one of the distance ground schools last year, I have had little opportunity to actually study for any of the subjects. That is due to a series of work and personal commitments, as well as simply getting sidetracked a bit too often
So I have decided that I will start sitting my exams at the earliest opportunity, one at a time if necessary (yes, I'm aware of the 18 month limit) so I get the theory part out of the way. I must say, I find it very interesting, but I don't want to keep dragging this on forever.
I work on a five weeks on, then five weeks off schedule, and I was thinking the best way to go about it might be to disappear from my usual places and attend ground school during all or part of those five weeks, concentrating on only one or two subjects at a time, and doing the respective exams at the end of it. That way, I could concentrate on the studying bit without things (such as actually having a life
) getting in the way.Now, I am unaware of anyone offering such a walk-in/walk-out sort of training regime. The closest I can think of are the brush-up courses with the distance schools, and that is one option I will explore directly with them. However, I was wondering if anyone here has any other ideas to offer that I could explore, advise, similar experiences, etc.
Thanks in advance for your answers.
/lh2
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Who are you with!
You can't take exams one at a time mate
There are 14 exams and only 6 visits to the exam centre allowed
At your rate you'll only be able to take 6 exams
Im taking 6 next week - thats my first visit
then ill have 5 visits left to get 8 exams
its all programmed by the school
send me a post if ur struggling
You can't take exams one at a time mate
There are 14 exams and only 6 visits to the exam centre allowed
At your rate you'll only be able to take 6 exams
Im taking 6 next week - thats my first visit
then ill have 5 visits left to get 8 exams
its all programmed by the school
send me a post if ur struggling