A big warning to wannabes
Gender Faculty Specialist
Unfortunately you can not receive money for your services if you only have a PPL. Surely you know that from the ATPL theory.
Go away.
Go away.
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- The Jackpot - 6 Numbers (Typical prize: £2 million)
6 numbers are drawn at random from the set of integers between 1 and 49, which means there are 49!/(6!*(49-6)!) combinations of numbers (the draw order doesn't matter). The means that the jackpot chance is 1 in 13,983,816 or approximately 1 in 14 million. - 5 Numbers + Bonus Number (Typical prize: £100,000)
You are still matching 6 numbers from the 1 to 49 set as above, but you can now do it in 6 different ways (by dropping each of the main numbers in turn), therefore the chance is 1 in 13,983,816/6, which works out as 1 in 2,330,636. - 5 Numbers (Typical prize: £1,500)
This is 42 times more likely than getting 5 numbers + the bonus number because, after the first six balls are drawn, there are 43 balls left and you can match 42 of these 43 balls without matching the bonus number. Therefore the chance is 1 in 2,330,636/42, which evaluates to 1 in 55,491.33333. - 4 Numbers (Typical prize: £65)
Firstly, let's take the case of the first 4 of your numbers matching and the last 2 not matching. In this single case (where each set of chances relies on the previous event occurring):
Chance that your 1st number matches a winning number is 1 in 49/6.
Chance that your 2nd number matches a winning number is 1 in 48/5.
Chance that your 3rd number matches a winning number is 1 in 47/4.
Chance that your 4th number matches a winning number is 1 in 46/3.
Chance that your 5th number doesn't match a winning number is 1 in 45/(45-2) [because there are still 2 unmatched winning numbers].
Chance that your 6th number doesn't match a winning number is 1 in 44/(44-2) [yes, still 2 unmatched winning numbers].
Now you need to accumulate all those chances by multiplying them together:
1 in (49/6)*(48/5)*(47/4)*(46/3)*(45/43)*(44/42) which is 1 in 15486.953. Now this is the chance for that single case occurring, but there are 15 combinations of matching 4 from 6 [6!/(4!*(6-4)!)], so you divide the answer by 15 to get 1 in 15486.953/15 or 1 in 1032.4. - 3 Numbers (Constant prize: £10)
Follow exactly the same scheme as the 4 match above to get these figures:
1 in (49/6)*(48/5)*(47/4)*(46/43)*(45/42)*(44/41) (which is 1 in 1133.119) for a single case. There are 20 combinations of 3 from 6 [6!/(3!*(6-3)!], so the chance of a 3 match is 1 in 1133.119/20 or 1 in 56.7.
piperindian, are you only interested in airline work?
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Originally Posted by piperindian
CptSilva,
i think you dont know what you are talking about.
first of all if you get to the end of obtaining a frozen ATPL (modular) while working full-time at the same time like i did (with all the sacrifices) it shows a certain commitment and organisation.
I knew it would not be easy but as i said 1 on 10 got a job in an airline. when
you play the lottery, the odds are better (its like 30% i believe)
I did not even speak of the guys who did not finish the frozen ATPL training.
OK. then you dont need a frozen ATPL. A PPL/IFR (which is a totally different thing) will suffice. I dont think you need to know the JAR ATPL theory to fly a C172 (even in IFR cross-country).
Most of the ATPL theory is about large transport airplanes.
i think you dont know what you are talking about.
first of all if you get to the end of obtaining a frozen ATPL (modular) while working full-time at the same time like i did (with all the sacrifices) it shows a certain commitment and organisation.
I knew it would not be easy but as i said 1 on 10 got a job in an airline. when
you play the lottery, the odds are better (its like 30% i believe)
I did not even speak of the guys who did not finish the frozen ATPL training.
OK. then you dont need a frozen ATPL. A PPL/IFR (which is a totally different thing) will suffice. I dont think you need to know the JAR ATPL theory to fly a C172 (even in IFR cross-country).
Most of the ATPL theory is about large transport airplanes.
Yes i know what i´m talking about, i work in aviation for 6 years, more training and knowledge about aviation that you dont imagine, a Degree in Aviation and several other trainings, i know is hard to get the JAA ATPL Theory done, but this is a knowledge that i want to get, i like to learn more and more every day about something like to do. It´s not important for me if i fly a C172 or 747. I love aviation and i dont want to die stupid.
My dream is among others fly, it´s hard and everyone in this Forum know that, we dont need someone that say´s stop dreaming, if you dont believe, that is your problem, and once again i say, you are not made to be a pilot, you just analyse aviation as another Job, but the problem is that AVIATION IS THE JOB!!!!
For me this Thread end´s know,
Best luck for all of you that are trying to be a Pilot!!!
Best Regards
People, do please NB the harsh reality; that you can have all the bits of paper, type ratings, whatever - but if you don't meet the airline's HR requirements, you won't get a job.
Sadly, it seems from airline recruiters' comments that roughly 50% of those who apply are unemployable. Because they are not seen by the airline as being the type of people the airline wishes ever to employ.
Hence the reason why many schools are now conducting assessment tests before admitting students......
Sadly, it seems from airline recruiters' comments that roughly 50% of those who apply are unemployable. Because they are not seen by the airline as being the type of people the airline wishes ever to employ.
Hence the reason why many schools are now conducting assessment tests before admitting students......
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What I do know is that easyJet need to recruit 200 new pilots next year.
With regards to the licence- was the best thing i have ever done!
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Well I rekon Piperindian, you should go and play the lottery and do us all a favour!!
With a pesamistic attitude like you have, is it any wonder you haven't got a job? I think you may be surprised just how many people have achieved a lot more than you have. Why, because they have the right attitude and determination!
Rant over.
With a pesamistic attitude like you have, is it any wonder you haven't got a job? I think you may be surprised just how many people have achieved a lot more than you have. Why, because they have the right attitude and determination!
Rant over.
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Yes but Piperindian you do need a CPL to do air taxi, etc etc. I really cant understand what you are on about. These guys are working hard like most to achieve their dream of becoming a pilot, whether it be airlines or something else. And you seem to be knocking their confidence in getting a job because of your own experience. Like I said before,everyone is different and everyone has their chance. You have obviously blown yours so let others have theirs...
What ever you do guys keep working at it...its well worth it. From a personal point of view, I put the effort in and now fly the 737 for a decent airline. A Few friends didn't want to fly commercially, they wanted to instruct...its crap money but they enjoy it and get to fly - and their view is that they get paid for doing what they love, instead of being stuck in an office with higher management breathing down their neck!. Whether it be a 737 or a 152, its all flying and all well worth the effort - and a great buzz!
ATC
What ever you do guys keep working at it...its well worth it. From a personal point of view, I put the effort in and now fly the 737 for a decent airline. A Few friends didn't want to fly commercially, they wanted to instruct...its crap money but they enjoy it and get to fly - and their view is that they get paid for doing what they love, instead of being stuck in an office with higher management breathing down their neck!. Whether it be a 737 or a 152, its all flying and all well worth the effort - and a great buzz!
ATC
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pilot training, anybody?
hello.im an aspiring pilot and i just completed my ppl. I am lookn for some guidance on flight programs/schools that may be right for the money? i only have 65 hrs. and want tht coveted flying job just like the rest.i would like to work abroad so i may want get jaa liscensing. i know right now its way too early to be talkn bout tht but i just want to get all the info straight. i really want to get this right cause i only have one chance and limit cash.any input and i would greatly appreciate it.
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am still looking for the money so start
well am really shocked with the way a full pilot holding an ATPL licence is lacking a job . well all i can say to you is to keep trying and stop discouraging us the young wanabes . trust me since my childhood i have always wanted to be a pilot though at one time i decided to go for a B.A Adminstration , well still i feel like i havent reached to what i really want . all i can request you is for you to give me some knowledge on how you got your sponsoship for ATPL coz am seriously looking for one and i promise you that after my course i will get a job straight away thanks
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Shocked? You haven't read much about this business, have you! Read this thread for a start.
Aviation - particularly airline flying - is a very precarious business. Companies go bust frequently and rapidly. Unemployment is a constant danger and worry for almost any professional pilot. You could regard this occupation much like the theatre - an occasional enforced period of 'rest' is an occupational hazard! Many wannabes never ever get the job they've paid so much money to train for - even now, in the best hiring market for many years.
I admire your positive attitude, but get a reality check before you lay out too much dosh...
Scroggs
Aviation - particularly airline flying - is a very precarious business. Companies go bust frequently and rapidly. Unemployment is a constant danger and worry for almost any professional pilot. You could regard this occupation much like the theatre - an occasional enforced period of 'rest' is an occupational hazard! Many wannabes never ever get the job they've paid so much money to train for - even now, in the best hiring market for many years.
I admire your positive attitude, but get a reality check before you lay out too much dosh...
Scroggs
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roughly 50% of those who apply are unemployable.
A few months ago on Radio 4, they has a pilot from BA in an interview. The subject was the current pilot shortage. The BA Pilot made the point that there are hundreds of qualified pilots out there who are completely unemployable, not only from BA's perspective, but also from the perspective of many airlines. The net result is that BA are struggling to find appropriate people.
It is a sobering thought as for all I know, I am unemployable! But I'm arrogant/confident/stupid enough to find that unbelievable. Anyway, it was either a rapidly depreciating BMW M3 or an fATPL and I know which I prefer
Last edited by High Wing Drifter; 7th Jul 2006 at 11:13.
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ATPL
With a pesamistic attitude like you have, is it any wonder you haven't got a job? I think you may be surprised just how many people have achieved a lot more than you have. Why, because they have the right attitude and determination!
Of the 10 guys who finished the ATPL course (modular) only one found a job because the others were "pessimistic". Dont make me laugh !
I wish i had indeed played the lottery but now its a bit too late (the 50k is gone)
well am really shocked with the way a full pilot holding an ATPL licence is lacking a job . well all i can say to you is to keep trying and stop discouraging
for your information i know unemployed jet pilots with 1000s of hours (sometimes they flew for majors who went bankrupt in the last years). if you just read the newspapers, you will learn some airlines went bankrupt in the last years or furloughed a lot of pilots.
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I was just lurking and thought I'd add a point...
Like in many industries having the bit of paper doesn't mean that you automatically have all of the other attributes that an employer wants. I hoped to get a top job in IT with one of the investent banks after doing excellent at uni but couldn't even get a look in. Now after a few years experience in different areas and a lot of character building I'm now working at the level I always wanted.
My point? Don't always assume that the bit of paper is the ticket to the job you want. Maybe (probably) the attributes that the FTO's look for and the one's the airlines look for don't always match up. Sometimes you need to take a bit of time to look at what other aspects of your CV and your character you can build on to give you the edge over everone else. Also never give up because there is almost always a way to get what you want...eventually!
Like in many industries having the bit of paper doesn't mean that you automatically have all of the other attributes that an employer wants. I hoped to get a top job in IT with one of the investent banks after doing excellent at uni but couldn't even get a look in. Now after a few years experience in different areas and a lot of character building I'm now working at the level I always wanted.
My point? Don't always assume that the bit of paper is the ticket to the job you want. Maybe (probably) the attributes that the FTO's look for and the one's the airlines look for don't always match up. Sometimes you need to take a bit of time to look at what other aspects of your CV and your character you can build on to give you the edge over everone else. Also never give up because there is almost always a way to get what you want...eventually!
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Furlough? Majors?....that doesn't sound very British.
Is piperindian talking about the U.S. jobs market or the European jobs market?
We might all be talking at crossed purposes.
sr
We might all be talking at crossed purposes.
sr
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I've been qualified for nearly 18 months now and I know all about the downs you go through. I'm still in one for many reasons. Unfortunately finance is the biggest problem, which in turn affects the hours issue(work as an instructor and not earn enough to pay the banks back or do another job and watch others building the hours). This affects the emotional side of things and it gets hard at times to motivate yourself when you're down about it all. I have come close to posting the same sort of thing as Piperindian but then I gave myself a kick up the backside.
With that sort of negative feeling towards the industry you'll have no chance!
I'm still looking for that first job and I do believe it will come! Only because I have changed my attitude towards it and, if I'm honest, trying harder to get it! Its not going to be easy! It does suck right now! It will be worth it! And most of all it WONT get me down anymore. As soon as it does, you've lost!
Piperindian. You sound depressed! See somebody!
Good luck to all
With that sort of negative feeling towards the industry you'll have no chance!
I'm still looking for that first job and I do believe it will come! Only because I have changed my attitude towards it and, if I'm honest, trying harder to get it! Its not going to be easy! It does suck right now! It will be worth it! And most of all it WONT get me down anymore. As soon as it does, you've lost!
Piperindian. You sound depressed! See somebody!
Good luck to all
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It is pointless posting on this topic without saying which country you are talking about. The UK is the origin of more PPRuNers than any other, so we have to correct some of the points that are completely wrong for the UK in the original post from PiperIndian.
It does not cost "50k or more", in pounds. It costs from about £40k to whatever is needed in the UK, all flying done here.
It does not "take 2-3 years at best". It can be done in little over a year, even in 12 months if you are bright, a good pilot and work hard plus do some hour building in a more stable climate than the UK.
He is right that the JAR theory is not easy, and is sometimes boring. The job is not easy and is sometimes boring. If you are looking for an easy job with excitement all the time, you are looking in the wrong place. Try drug running or armed robbery
If you meet "lots of experienced jet pilots on the dole" in the UK then you are hanging about with people who have made some major foul up in their career. I could name 4 carriers just off the top of my head well-known in the UK who simply cannot get enough experienced crews to run the programmes they want to. Almost everyone I know who has a licence is now flying for pay, from instructors through turboprop FOs, one promised command soon after 2000 hours (so desperate are his employers for Captains) to one who is on his second job, second jet job in fact, having finished his IR about 3 years ago.
As for a type rating it really depends what you want. I know people who have got jobs out of it, and know others who have only paid when offered the job (some Ryanair, but others too). I also know others who have made different investments, like picking up the hours for single-crew IFR flying, because that is the flying they want to do.
It does not cost "50k or more", in pounds. It costs from about £40k to whatever is needed in the UK, all flying done here.
It does not "take 2-3 years at best". It can be done in little over a year, even in 12 months if you are bright, a good pilot and work hard plus do some hour building in a more stable climate than the UK.
He is right that the JAR theory is not easy, and is sometimes boring. The job is not easy and is sometimes boring. If you are looking for an easy job with excitement all the time, you are looking in the wrong place. Try drug running or armed robbery
If you meet "lots of experienced jet pilots on the dole" in the UK then you are hanging about with people who have made some major foul up in their career. I could name 4 carriers just off the top of my head well-known in the UK who simply cannot get enough experienced crews to run the programmes they want to. Almost everyone I know who has a licence is now flying for pay, from instructors through turboprop FOs, one promised command soon after 2000 hours (so desperate are his employers for Captains) to one who is on his second job, second jet job in fact, having finished his IR about 3 years ago.
As for a type rating it really depends what you want. I know people who have got jobs out of it, and know others who have only paid when offered the job (some Ryanair, but others too). I also know others who have made different investments, like picking up the hours for single-crew IFR flying, because that is the flying they want to do.
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Originally Posted by speedrestriction
Is piperindian talking about the U.S. jobs market or the European jobs market?
We might all be talking at crossed purposes.
sr
We might all be talking at crossed purposes.
sr
A brief study of piperindian's posting history will teach you all you need to know about him.
Scroggs
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As a newbie it's difficult to see what the market 'really' is like. But from what I can read it seems people who have the ticket and a A320 / 737 Type, a good personality and looks at the positive side of life tend to get jobs with airlines within a year or two.
I will be getting the medical done before I do anything with the CPL etc but either way I will be doing my PPL as I just want to fly again.
I'd love an Airline job where I walk through the airport with my suit on and people looking at me saying 'There goes the pilot' and giving my a smile. Then jump on my 777 and fly to Florida every week.
But I would also be pretty happy flying a load of Cargo in and out of China in a 737. So long as I get to fly I really don't care.
I'm 24 and hope to have my PPL by then end of the year. I am then setting my target of getting my APTL within 2 years of that. So at 26/27, a ticket to fly nice planes and have what I believe to be the qualities of a good airline pilot I am hoping I don't have to wait until my mid thirties before I get my first job in the aviation industry.
I am sure there are people like 'piperindian' who spend £40k on getting the slips to fly the big birds but never get the chance as a career due to not 'fitting in'. I am going to go with what the rest of the people say about there being a shortage of jobs spend my £40k ... I'm only earning just over £20k per year as a web designer but I think if I get a 50/50 chance of getting an airline job out of it then I'm in. (But then I always see the glass as half full).
I'm even half tempted to do a language course in Spanish/French to open up my possible airlines job opportunities. I speak 2 languages at the moment and the girlfriend speaks 4 (Her degree was in French and German though).
Andrew
I will be getting the medical done before I do anything with the CPL etc but either way I will be doing my PPL as I just want to fly again.
I'd love an Airline job where I walk through the airport with my suit on and people looking at me saying 'There goes the pilot' and giving my a smile. Then jump on my 777 and fly to Florida every week.
But I would also be pretty happy flying a load of Cargo in and out of China in a 737. So long as I get to fly I really don't care.
I'm 24 and hope to have my PPL by then end of the year. I am then setting my target of getting my APTL within 2 years of that. So at 26/27, a ticket to fly nice planes and have what I believe to be the qualities of a good airline pilot I am hoping I don't have to wait until my mid thirties before I get my first job in the aviation industry.
I am sure there are people like 'piperindian' who spend £40k on getting the slips to fly the big birds but never get the chance as a career due to not 'fitting in'. I am going to go with what the rest of the people say about there being a shortage of jobs spend my £40k ... I'm only earning just over £20k per year as a web designer but I think if I get a 50/50 chance of getting an airline job out of it then I'm in. (But then I always see the glass as half full).
I'm even half tempted to do a language course in Spanish/French to open up my possible airlines job opportunities. I speak 2 languages at the moment and the girlfriend speaks 4 (Her degree was in French and German though).
Andrew
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
So its JAA...
Thanks Scroggs,
I'll read more carefully before posting next time. However,
Piperindian:
"for your information i know unemployed jet pilots with 1000s of hours (sometimes they flew for majors who went bankrupt in the last years). if you just read the newspapers, you will learn some airlines went bankrupt in the last years or furloughed a lot of pilots"
Are these acquaintances of your's JAA or FAA rated? If not JAA rated, is their situation relevant to this thread about your JAA license? If they are JAA rated have they not applied to Easyjet, Ryanair or Flybe for example?
All the above companies are recruiting at a pretty smart rate.
I find your posts a little hard to swallow.
sr
I'll read more carefully before posting next time. However,
Piperindian:
"for your information i know unemployed jet pilots with 1000s of hours (sometimes they flew for majors who went bankrupt in the last years). if you just read the newspapers, you will learn some airlines went bankrupt in the last years or furloughed a lot of pilots"
Are these acquaintances of your's JAA or FAA rated? If not JAA rated, is their situation relevant to this thread about your JAA license? If they are JAA rated have they not applied to Easyjet, Ryanair or Flybe for example?
All the above companies are recruiting at a pretty smart rate.
I find your posts a little hard to swallow.
sr
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Hi all, this is my first post here and I'd thought I'd put my first 2 pence here.
As a new PPL, going on to ATPL, I found piperindians posts a little disheartening....for about 2 nanoseconds. In fact I dont describe myself as a wannabe but as a gonnabe. I know getting an airline job isnt easy, but life isnt either. But I've seen this all before....
I work on Oil Rigs and Platforms in the North Sea, and clear 2k for 2 weeks work (2on/2off rota). I knew working offshore was the only way I was gonna get enough cash for the CPL/IR. But it was really difficult getting offshore with no experience. The first thing they would ask you is 'Do you have experience?' The next was 'Would like us to keep you on file?' I finally got away with an operator instead of an agency. The point is: if you dont succeed at first try again. You're taking the wrong attitude no matter how many times you've tried. Also, I would like to say that working offshore is a good way of getting money quick, if you can hack it.
Future ATPL's shouldnt be put off by this dudes posts! Fortune favours the persistant.
As a new PPL, going on to ATPL, I found piperindians posts a little disheartening....for about 2 nanoseconds. In fact I dont describe myself as a wannabe but as a gonnabe. I know getting an airline job isnt easy, but life isnt either. But I've seen this all before....
I work on Oil Rigs and Platforms in the North Sea, and clear 2k for 2 weeks work (2on/2off rota). I knew working offshore was the only way I was gonna get enough cash for the CPL/IR. But it was really difficult getting offshore with no experience. The first thing they would ask you is 'Do you have experience?' The next was 'Would like us to keep you on file?' I finally got away with an operator instead of an agency. The point is: if you dont succeed at first try again. You're taking the wrong attitude no matter how many times you've tried. Also, I would like to say that working offshore is a good way of getting money quick, if you can hack it.
Future ATPL's shouldnt be put off by this dudes posts! Fortune favours the persistant.