Licence Conversion to JAA
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Watch out vwhat JAA really is...
Hi zoom,
sorry for the late reply, I've been on the road for a while. Yup, essentially that is what would happen in Germany. BUT: understand what JAA license means: It means a license has a certain standard, and is mutually recognized by all member states without formalities. The way to obtain the license can differ slightly from state to state, and it does. These differences were filed with and approved by the JAA commitee when JAR FCL was introduced. So REALLY LOOK into where you want to convert, it needs NOT be the country that you plan to work in. I would go through the UK, since the conversion of FAA to JAA licenses is clearly set in the rules there (check out the online copy of LASORS) Having a tailored training programme set up will take quite a bit of time while the paperwork is done, but you will not get away with less hours. ( after all the FTO make their money with selling you hours...)
@Paul_K
the scenario you describe does not work. If you have a license from a JAA member state that is delivered according to JAR FCL, you need no validation, recognition or anything to work in another memberstate. What might happen is that you are talking about a NATIONAL license delivered in a JAA member state that is not delivered according to JAR FCL, but to their old national standards. In this case, the way to go is to convert the National License to a JAA License in the country where it was originally issued. That should not entail much more then an Air Law exam. With that new JAA license, you will be able to fly G-registered aircraft without any other formality.
sorry for the late reply, I've been on the road for a while. Yup, essentially that is what would happen in Germany. BUT: understand what JAA license means: It means a license has a certain standard, and is mutually recognized by all member states without formalities. The way to obtain the license can differ slightly from state to state, and it does. These differences were filed with and approved by the JAA commitee when JAR FCL was introduced. So REALLY LOOK into where you want to convert, it needs NOT be the country that you plan to work in. I would go through the UK, since the conversion of FAA to JAA licenses is clearly set in the rules there (check out the online copy of LASORS) Having a tailored training programme set up will take quite a bit of time while the paperwork is done, but you will not get away with less hours. ( after all the FTO make their money with selling you hours...)
@Paul_K
the scenario you describe does not work. If you have a license from a JAA member state that is delivered according to JAR FCL, you need no validation, recognition or anything to work in another memberstate. What might happen is that you are talking about a NATIONAL license delivered in a JAA member state that is not delivered according to JAR FCL, but to their old national standards. In this case, the way to go is to convert the National License to a JAA License in the country where it was originally issued. That should not entail much more then an Air Law exam. With that new JAA license, you will be able to fly G-registered aircraft without any other formality.
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Yes...if you have 500 hours in a required MULTI-CREW environment...as far as I know. I have been researching this topic on and off for some time. I only scored 100 hours on an RJ before being furloughed so I too much take all the written exams. Sorry mate, there is no way around it. I managed to get a national conversation for my licenses but it was only valid for one year and I had to find an airline job which did not happen.
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How do you get a national conversation? Can i just go in Greece for example and ask them for a conversation? And if you get it, can you actually use it and work with it?
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I got the national conversion from the national authorities. I suppose it is possible to work with it, but I think most carriers would be reluctant to hire you. You do not have the training about European nuances. If the choice is between a fully certified JAA applicant and one with a fresh national conversion, even with more hours, I think the carrier would take the JAA applicant. Probably easier and less paperwork for them. The conversion was only valid for one year and there was a limit to the number of time I could renew it. So, it wasn't useful at all.
I remembered this as well. My local CAA has approved that an applicant with an FAA commercial and IR has the possibility to get credit for some written exams. The problem is that an FTO has to determine your level of efficiency and create a personalized training program for you. No FTO I spoke to was willing to do this because it means less money in their pocket and more work for them. I was basically told, "We need to give you a test to determine your level of knowledge. It will cost you 800 euros and you probably won't pass. If you don't pass you must take the entire course." So, it was basically an 800 euro fee to decide if I had to the a full course for nearly 8,000 euros. Needless to say, I passed on that.
I have been trying to locate the smallest possible bypass to taking all the writtens. As a CFI I was reluctant to pay for all the training again and the exams. Although it is theoretically possible to go around this hurdle, it is practically very difficult, if not impossible. Get yourself 500 hours in a two-person crew on a multi (flying with a safety pilot in a twin does not count) or prepeare yourself for the JAA written exams. One option is to go to the US and do the JAA training there. Then you get the lower prices and can take an FAA exam too.
I remembered this as well. My local CAA has approved that an applicant with an FAA commercial and IR has the possibility to get credit for some written exams. The problem is that an FTO has to determine your level of efficiency and create a personalized training program for you. No FTO I spoke to was willing to do this because it means less money in their pocket and more work for them. I was basically told, "We need to give you a test to determine your level of knowledge. It will cost you 800 euros and you probably won't pass. If you don't pass you must take the entire course." So, it was basically an 800 euro fee to decide if I had to the a full course for nearly 8,000 euros. Needless to say, I passed on that.
I have been trying to locate the smallest possible bypass to taking all the writtens. As a CFI I was reluctant to pay for all the training again and the exams. Although it is theoretically possible to go around this hurdle, it is practically very difficult, if not impossible. Get yourself 500 hours in a two-person crew on a multi (flying with a safety pilot in a twin does not count) or prepeare yourself for the JAA written exams. One option is to go to the US and do the JAA training there. Then you get the lower prices and can take an FAA exam too.
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That's right, the JAA IR must be done in the EU. And this may also be a additional reason why a carrier would be reluctant to hire a converted FAA IR. The only real main differences I see between the FAA and JAA are the IR procedures.
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And this may also be a additional reason why a carrier would be reluctant to hire a converted FAA IR
Puzzled
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I was implying that you might be at a disadvantage if you got your FAA license converted nationally; meaning that you did not sit the JAA exams but got a conversion from the national authorities.
You would not be at a disadvantage if you did the entire JAA conversion.
I do not understand clearly the order in which you want to convert your license. If I could do my training again I would go to a JAA-approved school in the US. While there you can do the FAA CPL/IR on your own. There is only one written exam for each license, rather than a handful in the EU.
You would not be at a disadvantage if you did the entire JAA conversion.
I do not understand clearly the order in which you want to convert your license. If I could do my training again I would go to a JAA-approved school in the US. While there you can do the FAA CPL/IR on your own. There is only one written exam for each license, rather than a handful in the EU.
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2003 FAA PPL CPL Multi IR
2004 14 JAA Exams
2006 UK JAA Frozen ATPL
Im afraid their is no way around it, just face it and get on with it as I realized back then. If you really want to fly in Europe it is the only way. what a pain in the
it was!
If you get some exemptions then you will have an endorsement on your JAA license, then be restricted to which countries aircraft you can fly. Good luck to all!
2004 14 JAA Exams
2006 UK JAA Frozen ATPL
Im afraid their is no way around it, just face it and get on with it as I realized back then. If you really want to fly in Europe it is the only way. what a pain in the
it was!If you get some exemptions then you will have an endorsement on your JAA license, then be restricted to which countries aircraft you can fly. Good luck to all!
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Trolle, that blue license is collecting dust at the moment! but not for long, been in the back of th 72 since. had to do it cause I would of been wondering could I have done it the rest of my life, its all over and done, with great releif
it is what they say right place right time, my time will come working for a well known operator.
it is what they say right place right time, my time will come working for a well known operator.
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500 hours multicrew? Won't save you....
Hi guys, don't get confused about the 500 hours multicrew. These will allow you to get a validation limited to one year for an ATPL(as was the case with Trolle). The same requirements applies to a JAA frozen ATPL holder, he will only get a full unrestricted ATPL when he can show these 500 hours.
A national license (the "cheap" way of converting) will always put you behind in the queue when people get hired, unless you have lots of experience (and we're not talking a few hours, put that closer to 5000 hours jet command...), so if you don't have that, save yourself the time and direct your efforts towards studying JAA theory. Also, you will only be able to fly aircraft registered in the country where the license was issued, and a carrier from a different country will not even consider you. because they will get problems to renew your type rating (their instructors are not allowed to sign your national license, all the stuff has to be sent in to the issuing Countrys CAA, and it will take about 2 weeks before you get a license with a renewed TR back. Not productive for a company....)
So what is left is a full JAA license, and the only credit you can get for JAA theory based on a foreign license is that with enough experience, you do not have to sit a ground course, but you can try the exam straight away. Still all the subjects that is. Credit can be given based on other education, eg. an aerospace engineer might get credit for aerodynamics, but he will have a harder time applying for the credit then just taking the exam since he knows the subject so well.
So guys, as 727man said, really, just face it and start studying. You cab save a lot of money going via an FAA license and then converting to JAA, but the effort required will be the same.
A national license (the "cheap" way of converting) will always put you behind in the queue when people get hired, unless you have lots of experience (and we're not talking a few hours, put that closer to 5000 hours jet command...), so if you don't have that, save yourself the time and direct your efforts towards studying JAA theory. Also, you will only be able to fly aircraft registered in the country where the license was issued, and a carrier from a different country will not even consider you. because they will get problems to renew your type rating (their instructors are not allowed to sign your national license, all the stuff has to be sent in to the issuing Countrys CAA, and it will take about 2 weeks before you get a license with a renewed TR back. Not productive for a company....)
So what is left is a full JAA license, and the only credit you can get for JAA theory based on a foreign license is that with enough experience, you do not have to sit a ground course, but you can try the exam straight away. Still all the subjects that is. Credit can be given based on other education, eg. an aerospace engineer might get credit for aerodynamics, but he will have a harder time applying for the credit then just taking the exam since he knows the subject so well.
So guys, as 727man said, really, just face it and start studying. You cab save a lot of money going via an FAA license and then converting to JAA, but the effort required will be the same.
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ICAO to JAR Conversion
Hello good peoples,
I'm new to PPRuNe, and was wondering if anybody out there with infinite wisdom can help me with my question?
I hold an ICAO license, with just over 1,000 hours, and want to convert to JAR in the mid-term future.
I have a JAR class 1 from the IAA. My question is this, can I use my IAA class 1, combined with UK CAA (looking at bristol) ATP exams, and flight training from one of the cheaper European countries ( I'm thinking Greece / Spain etc) and combine them all together to get my JAR license? Or do I have to do all the training (ie. medical, theory, flight training) within the confines of one European country?
Any insight greatly appreciated. I'm sorry if this thread has already been posted / discussed? If it has, please direct me to it!
Cheers,
B.
I'm new to PPRuNe, and was wondering if anybody out there with infinite wisdom can help me with my question?
I hold an ICAO license, with just over 1,000 hours, and want to convert to JAR in the mid-term future.
I have a JAR class 1 from the IAA. My question is this, can I use my IAA class 1, combined with UK CAA (looking at bristol) ATP exams, and flight training from one of the cheaper European countries ( I'm thinking Greece / Spain etc) and combine them all together to get my JAR license? Or do I have to do all the training (ie. medical, theory, flight training) within the confines of one European country?
Any insight greatly appreciated. I'm sorry if this thread has already been posted / discussed? If it has, please direct me to it!
Cheers,
B.
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BG101,
I'm pretty sure you have to do it under the authority of a single JAR member state. It's easy to convert an IAA JAR-FCL Class 1 to a UK CAA JAR-FCL Class 1. This page tells you how to do it: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=2576
You will need a payment form for the £22 fee, which you can get here: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=2090
I'm pretty sure you have to do it under the authority of a single JAR member state. It's easy to convert an IAA JAR-FCL Class 1 to a UK CAA JAR-FCL Class 1. This page tells you how to do it: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...90&pageid=2576
You will need a payment form for the £22 fee, which you can get here: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=2090
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Hi Adios,
Thanks for your help and speedy reply. I was thinking that this might be the case, but just wanted to get some insight into it first.
Personally, I would rather do the UK ATP subjects and flight training elsewhere as discussed.
Thanks again,
B.
Thanks for your help and speedy reply. I was thinking that this might be the case, but just wanted to get some insight into it first.
Personally, I would rather do the UK ATP subjects and flight training elsewhere as discussed.
Thanks again,
B.
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Hello, there are not many places where you can do that. - Intercockpit is one of them, you do the Bristol ground school, then flying in Croatia.
A couple of countries where you can do all in English apart from the UK.
good luck! IP
A couple of countries where you can do all in English apart from the UK.
good luck! IP
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My question is this, can I use my IAA class 1, combined with UK CAA (looking at bristol) ATP exams, and flight training from one of the cheaper European countries ( I'm thinking Greece / Spain etc) and combine them all together to get my JAR license? Or do I have to do all the training (ie. medical, theory, flight training) within the confines of one European country?
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Florida CPL/Multi/FAA/IR Conversion to JAA
Hi Folks,
I would like to start a thread on this subject as I am considering the cost savings or is this a myth?
10k Dollars for a CPLJAA with FAA single IR (EFT) for example
2k Dollars for the Multi rating
End result CPL Multi with single FAA IR
Not sure about the rest ie
How much will a conversion cost for example in Spain? The requirement seems to be 15hr course 10 of which can be in a sim. Would this give me a CPL Multi IR JAA licence
I would like to hear from anyone who has information and especially anyone has done this to completion. Is this the long way round, or a cheap and nasty way round. I look forward to replies.
Thanks
CPTKC
I would like to start a thread on this subject as I am considering the cost savings or is this a myth?
10k Dollars for a CPLJAA with FAA single IR (EFT) for example
2k Dollars for the Multi rating
End result CPL Multi with single FAA IR
Not sure about the rest ie
How much will a conversion cost for example in Spain? The requirement seems to be 15hr course 10 of which can be in a sim. Would this give me a CPL Multi IR JAA licence
I would like to hear from anyone who has information and especially anyone has done this to completion. Is this the long way round, or a cheap and nasty way round. I look forward to replies.
Thanks
CPTKC