Hour Building (General & UK)
Join Date: Jun 2002
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You can tow gliders into the air and fly parchute drops as long as you are unpaid. It is also possible to instruct on a PPL but to do so will require an FI(R) rating. To start an FI(R) course (FIC) you will need the JAA ATPL or CPL exams completed and at least 200 hours (to include 150 Hours P1 if adding it to a PPL).
You will then be able to instruct to PPL(A) level but will not be paid. For that you will need a JAA CPL. Which isn't much of a problem as you will have passed the JAA ATPL or CPL exams anyway to be able to start the FI(R) course.
If you are paying for your hours, it is cheaper to build hours over in countries such as South Africa, United States, Canada etc and this is a route that some people take. At the end of the day, it is up to the individual.
My personal circumstances is that I have been flying for just over 8 years, have 620 hours and am half way through my JAA ATPL course.
I obtained my PPL and enjoyed it for a few years before I decided to go commercial. By this time I had a few hundred hours split 2/3rds UK with the other 1/3 being on "flying holidays" over in California.
Then I obtained an FAA CPL/IR SE ME as well as an IMC/Night rating on the CAA PPL before starting the JAA ATPL theoretical course.
Have 7 exams passed with another 7 yet to take. Hopefully be finished by the end of next summer, by which time I'll have 700 hours or so. Hey presto, the minimum required for single pilot IFR work.
Yes it has been expensive and with no bank loans in sight, but with a decent job and living with my parents, it has been more than possible without any other areas of my life being affected.
If I wasn't flying then I would have bought a house by now and it was getting to the stage that I was seriously tempted to do so. However, I want to be in a position in which I can give up my full time job to go into single pilot IFR work or Flight Instruction if the opportunity came up. With a mortgage, I doubt this would be a possibility.
You will then be able to instruct to PPL(A) level but will not be paid. For that you will need a JAA CPL. Which isn't much of a problem as you will have passed the JAA ATPL or CPL exams anyway to be able to start the FI(R) course.
If you are paying for your hours, it is cheaper to build hours over in countries such as South Africa, United States, Canada etc and this is a route that some people take. At the end of the day, it is up to the individual.
My personal circumstances is that I have been flying for just over 8 years, have 620 hours and am half way through my JAA ATPL course.
I obtained my PPL and enjoyed it for a few years before I decided to go commercial. By this time I had a few hundred hours split 2/3rds UK with the other 1/3 being on "flying holidays" over in California.
Then I obtained an FAA CPL/IR SE ME as well as an IMC/Night rating on the CAA PPL before starting the JAA ATPL theoretical course.
Have 7 exams passed with another 7 yet to take. Hopefully be finished by the end of next summer, by which time I'll have 700 hours or so. Hey presto, the minimum required for single pilot IFR work.
Yes it has been expensive and with no bank loans in sight, but with a decent job and living with my parents, it has been more than possible without any other areas of my life being affected.
If I wasn't flying then I would have bought a house by now and it was getting to the stage that I was seriously tempted to do so. However, I want to be in a position in which I can give up my full time job to go into single pilot IFR work or Flight Instruction if the opportunity came up. With a mortgage, I doubt this would be a possibility.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: nottingham
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Thanks for the advice.
I am in the same situation at the moment working to pay for the flying at week-ends, studying like mad. I have realised that once you get the bug you've had it, costly as it might be.
Still, goto keep rolling the dice to stay in the game, just hope it will be worth it. Im sure it will.
Cheers, FS.
I am in the same situation at the moment working to pay for the flying at week-ends, studying like mad. I have realised that once you get the bug you've had it, costly as it might be.
Still, goto keep rolling the dice to stay in the game, just hope it will be worth it. Im sure it will.
Cheers, FS.
Last edited by flyingskipper; 29th Dec 2005 at 17:38.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oporto
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Hour Building
Hello,
I would like to know if anyone could answer to this questions:
Can we share time in hour building with other pilot in a Single Engine?
If so what should we put on the LogBook?
Can anyone explain the prices of this School www.letsgoair.com, in the US?
I´ve a JAA PPL and also FAA PPL.
Best Regards
Paulo Silva
I would like to know if anyone could answer to this questions:
Can we share time in hour building with other pilot in a Single Engine?
If so what should we put on the LogBook?
Can anyone explain the prices of this School www.letsgoair.com, in the US?
I´ve a JAA PPL and also FAA PPL.
Best Regards
Paulo Silva
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Re: Hour Building and sharing time
Who ever is flying P1 will record the time in their logbook! The other person is a passenger until its there turn to fly P1.....
You can of course split the costs with another person so you can fly further afield, for example, you pay 25 hours and the other person pays 25 hours...thus a total of 50 flying hours, but you can only log the hours you fly as pilot in command i.e. the 25 hours that you purchased.
You can of course split the costs with another person so you can fly further afield, for example, you pay 25 hours and the other person pays 25 hours...thus a total of 50 flying hours, but you can only log the hours you fly as pilot in command i.e. the 25 hours that you purchased.
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Re: Hour Building and sharing time
So, if i understand that school is using mad pub, because they advertise 100 hours SE for 2350 USD, stating that you have to share time with another Pilot, perhaps it´s possible in US, i dont know.
But one thing is for sure, that is the most low price for hour building that i ever saw.
Let me see if anyone know the school and if they can tell us any experience.
Cheers,
CptSilva
But one thing is for sure, that is the most low price for hour building that i ever saw.
Let me see if anyone know the school and if they can tell us any experience.
Cheers,
CptSilva
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Hour Building and sharing time
Hi,
for the FAA if your friend is flying under IR in the hood : ) not actual you can log as a safety pilot but not for the JAA.
So it means for the JAA you can't log your safety pilot hours but for the FAA you can.
Hope it helps, if I'm wrong correct me please.
Cheers.
for the FAA if your friend is flying under IR in the hood : ) not actual you can log as a safety pilot but not for the JAA.
So it means for the JAA you can't log your safety pilot hours but for the FAA you can.
Hope it helps, if I'm wrong correct me please.
Cheers.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Re: Hour Building and sharing time
2350 sounds about right for 50 hours...as thats really what your buying! but you will be in the aircraft as a passenger for another 50 hours while your paired pilot is flying his half....
There website doesn't make it obvious, but heres the term that makes it...not so clear!
*Please note that the quoted prices are based on sharing time with another pilot.
There website doesn't make it obvious, but heres the term that makes it...not so clear!
*Please note that the quoted prices are based on sharing time with another pilot.
Last edited by wbryce; 6th Jan 2006 at 13:17.
Re: Hour Building and sharing time
Website does not install too much confidence, no pics of the planes either.
In the US regs, it states the minimum you need to log, eg only the time to prove currency or the minimum time required for a license or rating.
You can log however anything you like, pax time, time in seat 44D,etc.
Just cannot count the time towards issuance of a certificate or rating.
So in the US you would be legally able to log the full 100 hrs, you can just count 50 towards a rating or license. You would be out of your mind to do it, but according to the regulations, it's legal.
The safetypilot PIC issue for somebody training under the hood basically allows you to log AND COUNT that time for the issuance of a license or rating.
Two examples;
Embry Riddle has the CAPT program, they advertise you will have logged 500hrs when finished. Absolutely true, however half of them are while learning from the backseat as your training partner flies the plane.
Legal to log but not usable for application of rating or license.
I received a resume from a flightinstructor a while ago stating appr. 500hrs TT.
His PIC time and dual received did not add up, 280 hrs missing.
I asked hime about it hoping it would be instruction given.
He had logged SIC time flying with various people in C172, Pa 28 etc.
Strictly speaking legal to do so as apparently he passed his Flight instructor checkride, however a pretty silliy thing to do.
In short, a big difference in what you are legally allowed to do and what is accepted practice in the real world.
In the US regs, it states the minimum you need to log, eg only the time to prove currency or the minimum time required for a license or rating.
You can log however anything you like, pax time, time in seat 44D,etc.
Just cannot count the time towards issuance of a certificate or rating.
So in the US you would be legally able to log the full 100 hrs, you can just count 50 towards a rating or license. You would be out of your mind to do it, but according to the regulations, it's legal.
The safetypilot PIC issue for somebody training under the hood basically allows you to log AND COUNT that time for the issuance of a license or rating.
Two examples;
Embry Riddle has the CAPT program, they advertise you will have logged 500hrs when finished. Absolutely true, however half of them are while learning from the backseat as your training partner flies the plane.
Legal to log but not usable for application of rating or license.
I received a resume from a flightinstructor a while ago stating appr. 500hrs TT.
His PIC time and dual received did not add up, 280 hrs missing.
I asked hime about it hoping it would be instruction given.
He had logged SIC time flying with various people in C172, Pa 28 etc.
Strictly speaking legal to do so as apparently he passed his Flight instructor checkride, however a pretty silliy thing to do.
In short, a big difference in what you are legally allowed to do and what is accepted practice in the real world.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Re: Hour Building and sharing time
If you are acting as safety pilot whilst the person in the left hand seat flies under the hood, you may both log that time as P1.
This time counts towards any FAA licence/rating but not JAA.
This time counts towards any FAA licence/rating but not JAA.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Hour Building Insurance......
Folks
I can't seem to find anything on medical insurance when flying i.e. to cover me if (heaven forbid) I need medical treatment whilst hour-building in The States.........my standard travel insurance obviously doesn't cover it.
Is it/ can it be included in the hire rate???
Cheers
I can't seem to find anything on medical insurance when flying i.e. to cover me if (heaven forbid) I need medical treatment whilst hour-building in The States.........my standard travel insurance obviously doesn't cover it.
Is it/ can it be included in the hire rate???
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Re: Hour Building Insurance......
try this outfit i used them for medical insurance whilst in the states had to claim for some minor medical advise whilst there.
Hall and Clarke based in harrow i think should be in the book
Hall and Clarke based in harrow i think should be in the book
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Re: Hour Building Insurance......
http://www.traffordsinsurance.co.uk/
This link is the one I used whilst hour building very cheap and well known, I didn't have to claim so do not know personally how they are, but many on Prune have sworn by them.
YYZ
This link is the one I used whilst hour building very cheap and well known, I didn't have to claim so do not know personally how they are, but many on Prune have sworn by them.
YYZ
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Re: Hour Building Insurance......
Whichever one you pick, make sure you pick one. FBOs in the States will tell you their planes are insured, but it only covers dammage you do to things and people on the ground. Not you and passengers. I believe AOPA (both US and UK) have links to renters insurance.
P
P
Join Date: Apr 2003
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hour building on an islander
Hi All
I have just spoke to a fellow in Gaborone Botswana where I live and he is offering to hire his Islander out to hour builders for about £350 and hour.
Before I am accused, I do not work for this chap, he has bought 5 islanders from the air force and he has fixed one up for training on.
If anyone is interested PM me and I will pass your details onto him. I had a look at the aircraft and it is very nice.
Regards
Flying Paddy
I have just spoke to a fellow in Gaborone Botswana where I live and he is offering to hire his Islander out to hour builders for about £350 and hour.
Before I am accused, I do not work for this chap, he has bought 5 islanders from the air force and he has fixed one up for training on.
If anyone is interested PM me and I will pass your details onto him. I had a look at the aircraft and it is very nice.
Regards
Flying Paddy
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Nobody operates Islanders in Africa unless they a. make money providing a transport service or b. can find people willing to pay £350/hour to fly one.
Believe me, no Islander in the world is worth paying 350/h to fly just to hour-build. But maybe I'm wrong, I might have spent too much time on Islanders to know anything about it. And anyway, what kind of hour-building are you thinking of? 10 hrs cost you £3,500. What are you going to do with 10 hours and what could you do with £3,500? It only costs about £350/hr to receive IR training with instructor incl. all charges in the UK. People, if you want to get flying time offer your services for cheap, then both sides win.
Believe me, no Islander in the world is worth paying 350/h to fly just to hour-build. But maybe I'm wrong, I might have spent too much time on Islanders to know anything about it. And anyway, what kind of hour-building are you thinking of? 10 hrs cost you £3,500. What are you going to do with 10 hours and what could you do with £3,500? It only costs about £350/hr to receive IR training with instructor incl. all charges in the UK. People, if you want to get flying time offer your services for cheap, then both sides win.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Hey Blueplume
That is a bit harsh, I was only passing on what I had heard.
But that is your right to air your opinion and give some advice just like I did eh
Flying Paddy
That is a bit harsh, I was only passing on what I had heard.
But that is your right to air your opinion and give some advice just like I did eh
Flying Paddy
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If you want to build cheap twin hours go to a company like www.sunstateaviation.com in the States. And no i'm nothing to do with them other than being one of their satisfied customers passing on a recommendation.
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If you got a commercial multi and want Islander hours, NOW is the time you should be scouring the skydiving sites and go and pay them a visit, you will find a few of them have Islanders and you wont have to pay out.
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Hour building help !!
I have come to Australia to do my ICAO CPL ME IFR and ATPL subjects , i have been studying here for 13 months now and i have already seen 2 fellow students that have completed courses ahead of mine go to fly with dodgey operators because these are the only initial jobs available to them, these 2 have been involved in FATAL accidents which are due to low standard of maintenance and overloading of A/C.
I hold dual citizenship AUS/UK but have lived in dubai most of my life, after speaking with a lot of emirates guys they have pointed me to Falcon Air (contracted by fedex) which do regonal runs throughout the mid east I have found out that they require 500tt with 300ME and a endoresment on the B1900.
The only way to get the hours/endoresment is to do it through a eaglejet program in the states. I really want to avoid the GA route especially here in AUS.
Are there any other companys doing B1900 endorsements and time ?
Any info comments would be great
(please no comments about how ppl "feel" about eaglejet)
I hold dual citizenship AUS/UK but have lived in dubai most of my life, after speaking with a lot of emirates guys they have pointed me to Falcon Air (contracted by fedex) which do regonal runs throughout the mid east I have found out that they require 500tt with 300ME and a endoresment on the B1900.
The only way to get the hours/endoresment is to do it through a eaglejet program in the states. I really want to avoid the GA route especially here in AUS.
Are there any other companys doing B1900 endorsements and time ?
Any info comments would be great
(please no comments about how ppl "feel" about eaglejet)