Benefit of UK based CPL/IR training to employment prospects?
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Benefit of UK based CPL/IR training to employment prospects?
I'm currently at the stage of finishing off my hour building before I start my CPL and IR.
I was planning on doing both of these (bar part of the IR) in the USA but I've recently been informed that doing all of the CPL/IR training in the UK would be better for my employment prospects with European airlines at the end of the training. The reason given was that an airline would prefer to see that you had done the flying in the type of airspace that you wish to employed in.
I must admit, I don't really know how much truth is in this and, having never heard this before, I'd be interested in hearing what people think and/or have experienced.
Is what I was told a load of nonsense?
Does it REALLY make a difference to the airlines (or your chances of a job) if you do the majority of your flying training outside of the UK?
Interested in any responses
Matt
I was planning on doing both of these (bar part of the IR) in the USA but I've recently been informed that doing all of the CPL/IR training in the UK would be better for my employment prospects with European airlines at the end of the training. The reason given was that an airline would prefer to see that you had done the flying in the type of airspace that you wish to employed in.
I must admit, I don't really know how much truth is in this and, having never heard this before, I'd be interested in hearing what people think and/or have experienced.
Is what I was told a load of nonsense?
Does it REALLY make a difference to the airlines (or your chances of a job) if you do the majority of your flying training outside of the UK?
Interested in any responses
Matt
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Unfortunately there is no definitive answer to your question and anyone who gives you one is likely to be talking porkies. The only way to find out is to get a pad and a paper and write down each and every airline that you want to work for when you are qualified. Then contact each and find out who they hired in the say last 6 months and what their backgrounds were. Getting that information will be like finding hens teeth.
Having said that here are my thoughts:
(1) there will always be chief pilots/recruiters who think that the sun shines out of Oxford, Jerez and Cabair. Mere mortals who went anywhere else will come a sorry 2nd to anyone from the above. The only chance of getting into these airlines is via the back door so to speak by getting a job elsewhere and proving yourself via your 1000 odd hours on jets etc.
(2) having said point (1) where you trained is down the list of what an employer is looking for. The key ingredient to me is having a network. If you just happen to know training captains/recruiters/daddy works there etc then have a think about how much better your chances are going to be of getting that first job ahead of someone who has mastered mail merge on MS Word and fired off 100 cv's and covering letters and more than likely sent them to the wrong person in anycase.
(3) lets say for arguments sake you save £5-6k by going stateside. Lets assume you have this cash burning a hole in your pocket. What if you went and hour built twin time in the US and came back with 75-100 hours total including your IR time. Most of your peers would have 25 hours max so your already ahead of them.
(4) consider what the smaller airlines/charter outfits are looking for. Take an example of say Loganair. Would they be interested in a guy who has 250 hours, lives in [insert big city here] but has seen Scotland on the weather reports. Someone like Loganair who would be pretty much representative of the smaller outfits is after someone who has maturity and will stick around. Its likely that they will want someone who is local or at least has ties to the area they are hoping to work in or in the absence of this at least have proven that they are upwardly mobile and have no problem adjusting to a different set of circumstances. In other words mummys boys need not apply.
The overall point I am trying to make is that where you trained is only a small factor in whether you would get called for interview and secure a job there is so much more to it and you need to look at the overall package rather than just the training element. My advice is concentrate on building that network up as it is contacts that will get your cv onto the right desk at the right time rather than rely on a bit of luck from mail drops.
Having said that here are my thoughts:
(1) there will always be chief pilots/recruiters who think that the sun shines out of Oxford, Jerez and Cabair. Mere mortals who went anywhere else will come a sorry 2nd to anyone from the above. The only chance of getting into these airlines is via the back door so to speak by getting a job elsewhere and proving yourself via your 1000 odd hours on jets etc.
(2) having said point (1) where you trained is down the list of what an employer is looking for. The key ingredient to me is having a network. If you just happen to know training captains/recruiters/daddy works there etc then have a think about how much better your chances are going to be of getting that first job ahead of someone who has mastered mail merge on MS Word and fired off 100 cv's and covering letters and more than likely sent them to the wrong person in anycase.
(3) lets say for arguments sake you save £5-6k by going stateside. Lets assume you have this cash burning a hole in your pocket. What if you went and hour built twin time in the US and came back with 75-100 hours total including your IR time. Most of your peers would have 25 hours max so your already ahead of them.
(4) consider what the smaller airlines/charter outfits are looking for. Take an example of say Loganair. Would they be interested in a guy who has 250 hours, lives in [insert big city here] but has seen Scotland on the weather reports. Someone like Loganair who would be pretty much representative of the smaller outfits is after someone who has maturity and will stick around. Its likely that they will want someone who is local or at least has ties to the area they are hoping to work in or in the absence of this at least have proven that they are upwardly mobile and have no problem adjusting to a different set of circumstances. In other words mummys boys need not apply.
The overall point I am trying to make is that where you trained is only a small factor in whether you would get called for interview and secure a job there is so much more to it and you need to look at the overall package rather than just the training element. My advice is concentrate on building that network up as it is contacts that will get your cv onto the right desk at the right time rather than rely on a bit of luck from mail drops.
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I think the argument is not a strong one. I don't think airlines care where you trained for your PPL or CPL. I would certainly do my CPL in the states if I did it again. OATS send their guys to train in the US anyway.
The IR should be done in the UK - but you knew that already.
The IR should be done in the UK - but you knew that already.
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Originally Posted by no sponsor
The IR should be done in the UK - but you knew that already.
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i thought about doing the IR in spain but a training captain i spoke to said to do your training wherever you want but do your IR in the UK as its the most important part of your training
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I think under JAR you have to do your IR test in the UK so I reckon you may as well do the whole thing here as the instrument procedures are a bit different.
As for the CPL it makes no real difference. The flying is the same and when you get a commercial job you won't need any of the single engine CPL skills anyway.
I did my CPL in the states and it was never an issue.
As for the CPL it makes no real difference. The flying is the same and when you get a commercial job you won't need any of the single engine CPL skills anyway.
I did my CPL in the states and it was never an issue.
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Matt
I have heard a couple of heads of training for airlines stipulate that for the modular route, continuity of training is quite important, they do not want to see your training sporadically placed but undertaken at the same organisation
I have heard a couple of heads of training for airlines stipulate that for the modular route, continuity of training is quite important, they do not want to see your training sporadically placed but undertaken at the same organisation
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I didn't do my IR in Spain, so I can't comment from personal experience - just remember, you want the skill as much as you want the qualification. Be careful where you go to get it. I think there are other posts here detailing the experience of an IR in Spain.
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Thanks for all the info and suggestions guys!
It's sort of confirmed what I knew already - which is good - and hopefully means I can make an informed decision about my training soon.
Matt
It's sort of confirmed what I knew already - which is good - and hopefully means I can make an informed decision about my training soon.
Matt
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hey heinzman ,had (and still do ) the same concern myself but the way i see it what is really better for training ?hour build in a supersonic cessna 152 mostly flying in uncontrolled airspace and only do 50 hours instrument flying (25 maybe less in a real aircraft) or go to the other side and do all of your training in a twin ,get used to flying with instruments and in international airports and then come back to the uk and convert your multi IR ?i think if you are goeing modular (like me) its a much more tempting solution and will also save u some cash
I may have missed something but the majority of UK airlines fly into European airspace so learning to fly in the UK is no great advantage. Furthermore, the majority of airline flying is in Class A, B & C airspace; UK trg and hr building is almost exclusively in D-G which is very different.
Finally, I did my trg in about 4 different establishments and am now employed bya flag carrier on the Airbus which kinda blows some of the other theoriesout of the water!
Finally, I did my trg in about 4 different establishments and am now employed bya flag carrier on the Airbus which kinda blows some of the other theoriesout of the water!
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"I didn't do my IR in Spain, so I can't comment from personal experience - just remember, you want the skill as much as you want the qualification. Be careful where you go to get it. I think there are other posts here detailing the experience of an IR in Spain."
Ok, I'm going to take the bait.
Exactly what is the "experience of the IR" in Spain that is a problem?
Ok, I'm going to take the bait.
Exactly what is the "experience of the IR" in Spain that is a problem?
