Maths and Physics knowledge req'd for ATPL and airline flying?
Terrier
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Justine.
I passed them, so I think you will!
Don't worry, do the course and enjoy it. It is a hard slog though, so don't be deluded by that.......and it is HARD to get the first job!
TS
I passed them, so I think you will!
Don't worry, do the course and enjoy it. It is a hard slog though, so don't be deluded by that.......and it is HARD to get the first job!
TS
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For the Maths, you need to be quick and proficient at elementary mental arithmetic - adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing - without a calculator - quickly and accurately.
You need to be able to re-arrange elementary algebra - ie, "make 'x' the subject of the following equation" when it is set out as 'y' = something.
And you need to understand sine, cosine, and tangent.
It really doesn't need to be any deeper than that. No calculus. No hyperbolic functions.
Physics is pretty much the same level. Ohm's Law. Kirchoff's Law. Wheatstone's Bridge. Basic Electricity, Heat, and Light. Elementary Work and Energy. Resolution of several forces pulling in different directions. The Gas Laws - relationship between pressure, volume, and temperature. Reading graphs. Interpolating between columns and rows from tabulated information.
That's about it.
You need to be able to re-arrange elementary algebra - ie, "make 'x' the subject of the following equation" when it is set out as 'y' = something.
And you need to understand sine, cosine, and tangent.
It really doesn't need to be any deeper than that. No calculus. No hyperbolic functions.
Physics is pretty much the same level. Ohm's Law. Kirchoff's Law. Wheatstone's Bridge. Basic Electricity, Heat, and Light. Elementary Work and Energy. Resolution of several forces pulling in different directions. The Gas Laws - relationship between pressure, volume, and temperature. Reading graphs. Interpolating between columns and rows from tabulated information.
That's about it.
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idiot proof maths/physics book
Can anyone suggest a good maths/physics book. Its about nine years since I finished school and even then was never too bothered at the whole maths/physics lark. I've started my ppl and will continue all the way to frozen ATPL (fingers crossed).
I need a book which is good for home study (i.e easy to teach/refresh yourself). A book which teaches the basics of the type of maths and physics one needs in order to fully understand the course content from PPL onwards.
There must be some idiot proof book out there which revises the whole weights/measurements/angles/velocities etc etc. and then the more complicated stuff. Cheers
I need a book which is good for home study (i.e easy to teach/refresh yourself). A book which teaches the basics of the type of maths and physics one needs in order to fully understand the course content from PPL onwards.
There must be some idiot proof book out there which revises the whole weights/measurements/angles/velocities etc etc. and then the more complicated stuff. Cheers
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Get your hands on the Orange or purple GCSE maths book. Physics books are not really called for.
VFE.
VFE.
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I really don't think that any general book you buy is going to help, unless you've got a burning desire to get into the theory. For example, you can use the 1 in 60 rule in navigation without needing to know why it works (the sine of angles up to 45 degrees approximates to the angle in degrees x 1/60th, if your interested!).
The two main sets of PPL books explain what you need to know in sufficient detail - I favour the Jeremy Pratt books personally. Alot of rules of thumb actually derive from quite complex theory and are really irrelevant at most levels of flying (the theory that is, not the rule of thumb).
If you really are struggling then there are I think one or two people doing basic maths and physics course for pilots. This might be a better option. Don't forget that when you come to Aircraft Technical there's alot of stuff about engines, ignition and braking systems etc where background knowledge would in theory be useful. Unless you've got alot of time to spare you are better attacking each subject and highlighting weak areas which you can then cover in more detail if you need to.
Not quite the answer to the question but hopefully a little help.
The two main sets of PPL books explain what you need to know in sufficient detail - I favour the Jeremy Pratt books personally. Alot of rules of thumb actually derive from quite complex theory and are really irrelevant at most levels of flying (the theory that is, not the rule of thumb).
If you really are struggling then there are I think one or two people doing basic maths and physics course for pilots. This might be a better option. Don't forget that when you come to Aircraft Technical there's alot of stuff about engines, ignition and braking systems etc where background knowledge would in theory be useful. Unless you've got alot of time to spare you are better attacking each subject and highlighting weak areas which you can then cover in more detail if you need to.
Not quite the answer to the question but hopefully a little help.
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SFI145,
Do you have a web link or any info on where you can get a copy of this book 'Maths and Physics for Pilots'? I had a quick search and looked on Amazon and drew a blank. I'd definitely be interested in that as my maths is a little rusty and I want to brush up before starting ATPL theory in September.
Do you have a web link or any info on where you can get a copy of this book 'Maths and Physics for Pilots'? I had a quick search and looked on Amazon and drew a blank. I'd definitely be interested in that as my maths is a little rusty and I want to brush up before starting ATPL theory in September.
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Maths and ATPL
PilotOnline,
I'm in the same postion as you - need brush up with the old maths. Haven't really done much since 'O' Levels many, many years ago.
Strangely enough I posted almost the exact same message on the Bristol forum two days ago.
I'm planning to start my ATPLs in September (subject to the Class 1).
I been doing some research about the maths side of things and found the Letts Revision Guides website seems to have some useful stuff - http://www.letts-education.com/index.jhtml - got some good links from it also.
What route are you planning to take with the ATPLs - Int or Mod?
I see you're in London, PM me if you're interested in hooking up and having a chat.
Paul
I'm in the same postion as you - need brush up with the old maths. Haven't really done much since 'O' Levels many, many years ago.
Strangely enough I posted almost the exact same message on the Bristol forum two days ago.
I'm planning to start my ATPLs in September (subject to the Class 1).
I been doing some research about the maths side of things and found the Letts Revision Guides website seems to have some useful stuff - http://www.letts-education.com/index.jhtml - got some good links from it also.
What route are you planning to take with the ATPLs - Int or Mod?
I see you're in London, PM me if you're interested in hooking up and having a chat.
Paul
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For example, you can use the 1 in 60 rule in navigation without needing to know why it works (the sine of angles up to 45 degrees approximates to the angle in degrees x 1/60th, if your interested!).
Definitely a good idea to get a bit of work in on the Maths. As someone whos Math is described as "awful" by my Atpl instructor I should know. Triginometry was an optional subject when I was in school and my Maths teacher said it was easier to get marks in other subjects like Co-ordinate geometry. So having to do it for the Atpl meant having to stop the class to give a maths class, which made me feel about as popular as a fart in a Space Suit. So triginometry including Pythagorus theorem will be handy to have to avoid this situation. A fundamental knowledge of Algebra is very important, manipulation of formulae is 100% something you will need( I knew how to do that already, thank god). You dont have to go into too much depth with either of these topics just the fundamentals. I would think that the books for intermediate or final secondary school exams would do the job. Anything better will just scare you and be over the top.
Last edited by My names Turkish; 26th Jun 2003 at 09:17.
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As someone who was about as predisposed to maths at school as Hannibal the Cannibal was to vegetarianism I feel more than qualified to chime up on this topic.
I remember asking this very same question before I started flying and recieved numurous(!) replies from all manner of peeps in the pro aviation field. These days because this sort of topic has been raised quite often those guys tend not to post on these matters anymore.
From memory, the useful areas to hit are:
Ratios
Percentages
Properties of Circles
Trigonometry
Algebra
Indices
Using a scientific calculator (square root key and squared key mainly although some have great arc to time conversion buttons which you'd do well to discover) is useful too.
I personally have not struggled too badly with the maths in ATPL. I left school with a 'D' grade in GCSE maths eight years ago. Rearranging formulae is probably the toughest part of the deal and to be honest with you I still ain't much good at that but with only four exams left to sit (which includes only one that has any maths involved) I'm not too concerned.
Most study notes from schools include the mathematical working in their notes when required but even so, it's a good idea to brush up so as not to waste time when you start the ATPL course.
VFE.
I remember asking this very same question before I started flying and recieved numurous(!) replies from all manner of peeps in the pro aviation field. These days because this sort of topic has been raised quite often those guys tend not to post on these matters anymore.
From memory, the useful areas to hit are:
Ratios
Percentages
Properties of Circles
Trigonometry
Algebra
Indices
Using a scientific calculator (square root key and squared key mainly although some have great arc to time conversion buttons which you'd do well to discover) is useful too.
I personally have not struggled too badly with the maths in ATPL. I left school with a 'D' grade in GCSE maths eight years ago. Rearranging formulae is probably the toughest part of the deal and to be honest with you I still ain't much good at that but with only four exams left to sit (which includes only one that has any maths involved) I'm not too concerned.
Most study notes from schools include the mathematical working in their notes when required but even so, it's a good idea to brush up so as not to waste time when you start the ATPL course.
VFE.
You may wish to take a look at Engineering Mathematics by K A Stroud - http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...148904-1570055 . I used this for GCSE and A-Level, and is excellent. Very easy to follow, a pretty big book, but you'll pick things up quickly. I guess it will have more in than you need, but I found the teaching style very good to work with.
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Stroud - best Maths textbook I ever used (along with volume 2 which is equally good), but I used it during the first year of a Physics degree so it's probably a bit over the top for the ATPLs.
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There is also a casio calculator which has all the conv's on it that the whizz wheel does for about 12 quid.
But some people find figuring out how the calculator works harder than doing the actual sum.
During the brush up courses I must of spent 3-4 hours showing some of the others how their calculator worked.
The maths needed for ATPL isn't much more than primary school maths.
MJ
But some people find figuring out how the calculator works harder than doing the actual sum.
During the brush up courses I must of spent 3-4 hours showing some of the others how their calculator worked.
The maths needed for ATPL isn't much more than primary school maths.
MJ
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This all seems a bit OTT. It is'nt rocket science.
sin = opposite/hypotenuse
cos = adjacent/hypotenuse
tan = opposite/adjacent
Remembered by the mnemonic SOHCAHTOA
Variations -
sin times hypotenuse = opposite
hypotenuse = opposite/sin
angle = inverse sin [opposite/hypotenuse]
etc etc
Pythagoras hypotenuse ^2 = opposite ^2 + adjacent ^2
Errrr ! Can't think what else you need, unless you never went to primary school. Calculators make it a doddle.
If in doubt, do a Google at the time ? Lots of stuff on the net !
Hope this mainly helps to save you lots of unnecessary work ! The courses themselves, especially condensed ones, stretch endurance to the limit (not least one's limits of sheer boredom) ! Go skiing or something before your course - chill out !
sin = opposite/hypotenuse
cos = adjacent/hypotenuse
tan = opposite/adjacent
Remembered by the mnemonic SOHCAHTOA
Variations -
sin times hypotenuse = opposite
hypotenuse = opposite/sin
angle = inverse sin [opposite/hypotenuse]
etc etc
Pythagoras hypotenuse ^2 = opposite ^2 + adjacent ^2
Errrr ! Can't think what else you need, unless you never went to primary school. Calculators make it a doddle.
If in doubt, do a Google at the time ? Lots of stuff on the net !
Hope this mainly helps to save you lots of unnecessary work ! The courses themselves, especially condensed ones, stretch endurance to the limit (not least one's limits of sheer boredom) ! Go skiing or something before your course - chill out !
FYI...
I was taught a different way of remembering the sin, cos & tan formulae.
O/H = Sin (Orange Have Segments)
A/H = Cos (Apples Have Cores)
O/A = Tan (Oranges are Tasty)
I hope it helps.
BTW, it's not the maths that makes the ATPL's tricky, it's the volume of knowledge you need stuffed into your head.
Having said that it will definitely help if you can transpose formulae without thinking too much about it.
I was taught a different way of remembering the sin, cos & tan formulae.
O/H = Sin (Orange Have Segments)
A/H = Cos (Apples Have Cores)
O/A = Tan (Oranges are Tasty)
I hope it helps.
BTW, it's not the maths that makes the ATPL's tricky, it's the volume of knowledge you need stuffed into your head.
Having said that it will definitely help if you can transpose formulae without thinking too much about it.
