Debenair Aviation Florida
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This all goes to show why this forum is called a Rumour Network. Danny, I am rather surprised that you put 2 and 2 together to make 5. While your explanation of part 141 schools and their eligibility to issue visas is accurate, your conclusion that Debenair have had their visa issuing authority revoked is, nevertheless, incorrect.
I am currently at Debenair. I was a student of the Company last year. I am right here, right now having just completed further training with the Company. I am on an M1 Visa obtained after the part 141 certificate was voluntarily surrendered by the Company. I was here when the INS inspector visited Debenair and I personally know that Debenair is still approved for issuing visa applications. In fact yet another is being issued tomorrow.
Now, I must admit that Debenair have their problems, but non are as severe as the scurrilous rumours being purportrated by their competition. To set the record straight, Debenair voluntarily surrendered their part 141 approval after their former Chief Instructor and CFI MEI were dismissed. These same CFI MEI (s) are now working in the locality at Merritt Island and I would suggest that this is the source of the so-called "information" being posted here.
I would surmise that the motive of this particular CFI MEI is twofold. a) A local operator which seeks to gain commercial advantage by putting down its competitors and b) to satisfy the personal vendettas of those who were dismissed.
I do not intend to take sides over the circumstances of their dismissal. I have no personal knowledge of the situation, however it is clear that there were grievances on both sides, and the matter has left a bitter taste in the mouths of everyone involved. During my previous visit, I had met all of the persons involved and found all of them to be pleasant and professional.
It is a matter of sincere regret to me that in such a relatively short time, these professional gentlemen seem to have taken to childish mudslinging, instead of taking it on the chin and getting on with what they are best qualified to do.
However, I do take issue at untrue allegations being made here in this forum against a company which has always done its best to do the right thing, however unpopular that may be with certain individuals. The lady who owns Debenair has struggled against incredible odds to keep the company entirely legitimate. While the Company's present situation is certainly irregular, the INS have taken the view that Debenair needs a bit of space to re-organise, while they continue to operate under Part 61.
A new application for Part 141 approval is currently being prepared and the INS have granted Debenair a period of time to process their application before any decisions are made, (either way), regarding their visa approval status.
Both the FAA and the INS are aware of the company's ongoing preparations and are engaged in productive dialogue with Debenair to achieve conformance with the regulations without unduly adding to the challenges the company faces.
However, (lest this message be misunderstood), those who seek to cause harm to Debenair by exaggerating every irregularity out of all proportion or by misrepresenting the truth in a public domain, should ask themselves if they are prepared to expose themselves to the same level of scrutiny.
To coin a phrase, "those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones". If you really want to put the competition out of business, then concentrate on raising your own standards, instead of this petty sniping at others.
Frankly, I think the current behaviour of said CFI MEI is disgraceful and it has no place amongst our profession.
We are all members of an industry which is suffering both economically and politically to an unprecedented extent. It is a time when both pilots and corporate bodies should be working together to forge a path towards a more prosperous future for us all. We should be emphasising cooperation, not competition. Neighbouring schools and colleges should be combining and sharing skills and resources, building upon their mutual strengths, instead of capitalising on their differences.
Niche's view of heaven and hell, portrayed two separate cultures which lived by the same rules. There was food enough for everyone, but they all had to eat with chopsticks which were 6 feet long. In hell, everyone starved because obviously the chopsticks were too long to get the food into their mouths.
But in heaven they prospered simply because.... they fed each other!
I make no apologies for "idealising". Without such ideals there is nothing to work towards.
Let's all, at least, stop walking in the wrong direction and put an end to this sort of nonsense.
I am currently at Debenair. I was a student of the Company last year. I am right here, right now having just completed further training with the Company. I am on an M1 Visa obtained after the part 141 certificate was voluntarily surrendered by the Company. I was here when the INS inspector visited Debenair and I personally know that Debenair is still approved for issuing visa applications. In fact yet another is being issued tomorrow.
Now, I must admit that Debenair have their problems, but non are as severe as the scurrilous rumours being purportrated by their competition. To set the record straight, Debenair voluntarily surrendered their part 141 approval after their former Chief Instructor and CFI MEI were dismissed. These same CFI MEI (s) are now working in the locality at Merritt Island and I would suggest that this is the source of the so-called "information" being posted here.
I would surmise that the motive of this particular CFI MEI is twofold. a) A local operator which seeks to gain commercial advantage by putting down its competitors and b) to satisfy the personal vendettas of those who were dismissed.
I do not intend to take sides over the circumstances of their dismissal. I have no personal knowledge of the situation, however it is clear that there were grievances on both sides, and the matter has left a bitter taste in the mouths of everyone involved. During my previous visit, I had met all of the persons involved and found all of them to be pleasant and professional.
It is a matter of sincere regret to me that in such a relatively short time, these professional gentlemen seem to have taken to childish mudslinging, instead of taking it on the chin and getting on with what they are best qualified to do.
However, I do take issue at untrue allegations being made here in this forum against a company which has always done its best to do the right thing, however unpopular that may be with certain individuals. The lady who owns Debenair has struggled against incredible odds to keep the company entirely legitimate. While the Company's present situation is certainly irregular, the INS have taken the view that Debenair needs a bit of space to re-organise, while they continue to operate under Part 61.
A new application for Part 141 approval is currently being prepared and the INS have granted Debenair a period of time to process their application before any decisions are made, (either way), regarding their visa approval status.
Both the FAA and the INS are aware of the company's ongoing preparations and are engaged in productive dialogue with Debenair to achieve conformance with the regulations without unduly adding to the challenges the company faces.
However, (lest this message be misunderstood), those who seek to cause harm to Debenair by exaggerating every irregularity out of all proportion or by misrepresenting the truth in a public domain, should ask themselves if they are prepared to expose themselves to the same level of scrutiny.
To coin a phrase, "those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones". If you really want to put the competition out of business, then concentrate on raising your own standards, instead of this petty sniping at others.
Frankly, I think the current behaviour of said CFI MEI is disgraceful and it has no place amongst our profession.
We are all members of an industry which is suffering both economically and politically to an unprecedented extent. It is a time when both pilots and corporate bodies should be working together to forge a path towards a more prosperous future for us all. We should be emphasising cooperation, not competition. Neighbouring schools and colleges should be combining and sharing skills and resources, building upon their mutual strengths, instead of capitalising on their differences.
Niche's view of heaven and hell, portrayed two separate cultures which lived by the same rules. There was food enough for everyone, but they all had to eat with chopsticks which were 6 feet long. In hell, everyone starved because obviously the chopsticks were too long to get the food into their mouths.
But in heaven they prospered simply because.... they fed each other!
I make no apologies for "idealising". Without such ideals there is nothing to work towards.
Let's all, at least, stop walking in the wrong direction and put an end to this sort of nonsense.
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LDMax - I'm astonished that, from what you say, Debenair has not only been given a breather by INS but that they can STILL issue visas. From the detailed account you gave it sounds like you have more at stake than merely being a student. Customers aren't usually that intimate with the 'inside' operations of a business - are you working there too? I appreciate how hard an aviation business is to run, believe me I know but you must understand and appreciate that, in this particular area (federal approvals) there can't be one rule for some and another rule for others - not after 9/11. I simply cannot accept that a government agency responsible for securing our borders would turn a blind eye to the fact that a school is not in compliance with the law. No 141 certificate MUST equal NO immigraton approval, a few days here and there isn't a problem but not 6 months or more out of compliance. Under 141 if a pilot school looses it's certificiate is MUST wait 180 days before re-applying and that re-certification process can take months. During that time you say that INS are happy to let Debenair continue issuing visas? That's 100% contradictory to the information I was given by the same INS agent that visited the school. And your point about me being an ex employee of the school is wrong - I never worked there.
Last edited by cfimei; 28th Jul 2004 at 15:59.
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oddly enough QUITEASILYDONE is right - i didn't post the message for the benefit of Debenair students. i posted it for the benefit of our industry's reputation which has taken some knocks in the past. play by the rules so that people like you can still come to the States and enjoy flying, wherever that may be.
i guess QUITEASY wasn't training in the States on 9/11 and he/she may not know the horrendous time we had in this industry - how the politicians wanted to close the borders to foreign students. it's easy to forget and thus it's easy to assume flight training will always be here for you. i'm not giving any ammunication to those who want to restrict flight training any more than it already is - so perhaps it would be nice if you gave us a break when we try to follow the rules.
i guess QUITEASY wasn't training in the States on 9/11 and he/she may not know the horrendous time we had in this industry - how the politicians wanted to close the borders to foreign students. it's easy to forget and thus it's easy to assume flight training will always be here for you. i'm not giving any ammunication to those who want to restrict flight training any more than it already is - so perhaps it would be nice if you gave us a break when we try to follow the rules.
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Oh come off it CFIMEI, don't start preaching integrity. Bottom line is it's none of your business how another school conducts theirs.
This has nothing to do with 9/11. Let me remind you that "Hour builders" don't need visas at all, and neither do those taking Check Rides. The whole visa thing is so full of loop holes that it hardly amounts to post 9/11 security measures.
The M-1 and J-1 training visas serve only to keep tabs on those who go through the system. I wonder how much training actually gets done under the guise of "Hour Building"?
Debenair, on the other hand, are determined to operate a fully legitimate business and are cooperating with both the FAA and the INS in order to maintain their high standards. They continue to operate under Part 61, and this is sufficient FAA approval for INS to allow them to continue while the 141 application is being made.
You said:
The fact is the INS officer has the sole discretion to approve or decline INS visa issuing status to a school, just the same as an INS officer can approve or decline entry to someone into the United States, regardless of whether they have a visa or not. The decision is his alone.
In this case, the INS officer is satisfied that Debenair is in the process of putting a new 141 application in place, and is content to allow them to continue to issue visas pending a further inspection. He simply has to make a report, and the report won't get written until a decision has finally been made. As I said before, Debenair is in continuing and productive dialogue with both the FAA and the INS.
I see nothing wrong with the process as it has been applied, and Debenair certainly do have their work cut out to satisfy both organisations within a given timescale.
In reference to your denial of having worked at Debenair, I never said you did, although I suppose you might read it that way. I said:
In your reply you said:
Your identity is most certainly known to any voyager around these parts, and to Debenair themselves. But that's not really the point.
What is interesting is the web of deceit which surrounds your information. Mr. Wayne Barry of the INS categorically denies having discussed the matter of visa approval with anyone outside of the INS or Debenair themselves. In fact he has stated that it is illegal for him to do so.
Now this whole issue was raised due to an "annonymous" complaint to the FAA. The FAA sent a copy of their enquiry to the INS, and this is what prompted the INS to make enquiries also.
But the FAA have, nevertheless, confirmed the source of that complaint and... guess what... it's YOU!
Yes... I am protective towards Debenair, and the owner. I count the management there amongst my friends, and Debenair has provided me with a lot of help and assistance beyond what is merely "required". I simply will not stand by and watch them get "bad mouthed" by the likes of you.
I do not work here. I have just completed a training course and that's the extent of my involvement. My "detailed account" is only by virtue of the fact that I know the facts of the case and you do not. I have also taken the time to discuss the matter with the management of Debenair, and you can be assured that they are following this thread with the greatest of interest.
...there can't be one rule for some and another rule for others - not after 9/11. I simply cannot accept that a government agency responsible for securing our borders would turn a blind eye to the fact that a school is not in compliance with the law.
The M-1 and J-1 training visas serve only to keep tabs on those who go through the system. I wonder how much training actually gets done under the guise of "Hour Building"?
Debenair, on the other hand, are determined to operate a fully legitimate business and are cooperating with both the FAA and the INS in order to maintain their high standards. They continue to operate under Part 61, and this is sufficient FAA approval for INS to allow them to continue while the 141 application is being made.
You said:
No 141 certificate MUST equal NO immigraton approval...
In this case, the INS officer is satisfied that Debenair is in the process of putting a new 141 application in place, and is content to allow them to continue to issue visas pending a further inspection. He simply has to make a report, and the report won't get written until a decision has finally been made. As I said before, Debenair is in continuing and productive dialogue with both the FAA and the INS.
I see nothing wrong with the process as it has been applied, and Debenair certainly do have their work cut out to satisfy both organisations within a given timescale.
In reference to your denial of having worked at Debenair, I never said you did, although I suppose you might read it that way. I said:
Now, I must admit that Debenair have their problems, but non are as severe as the scurrilous rumours being purportrated by their competition. To set the record straight, Debenair voluntarily surrendered their part 141 approval after their former Chief Instructor and CFI MEI were dismissed. These same CFI MEI (s) are now working in the locality at Merritt Island and I would suggest that this is the source of the so-called "information" being posted here.
I would surmise that the motive of this particular CFI MEI is twofold. a) A local operator which seeks to gain commercial advantage by putting down its competitors and b) to satisfy the personal vendettas of those who were dismissed.
I would surmise that the motive of this particular CFI MEI is twofold. a) A local operator which seeks to gain commercial advantage by putting down its competitors and b) to satisfy the personal vendettas of those who were dismissed.
I appreciate how hard an aviation business is to run, believe me I know...
What is interesting is the web of deceit which surrounds your information. Mr. Wayne Barry of the INS categorically denies having discussed the matter of visa approval with anyone outside of the INS or Debenair themselves. In fact he has stated that it is illegal for him to do so.
Now this whole issue was raised due to an "annonymous" complaint to the FAA. The FAA sent a copy of their enquiry to the INS, and this is what prompted the INS to make enquiries also.
But the FAA have, nevertheless, confirmed the source of that complaint and... guess what... it's YOU!
Yes... I am protective towards Debenair, and the owner. I count the management there amongst my friends, and Debenair has provided me with a lot of help and assistance beyond what is merely "required". I simply will not stand by and watch them get "bad mouthed" by the likes of you.
I do not work here. I have just completed a training course and that's the extent of my involvement. My "detailed account" is only by virtue of the fact that I know the facts of the case and you do not. I have also taken the time to discuss the matter with the management of Debenair, and you can be assured that they are following this thread with the greatest of interest.
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And what business is it of a foreign student ostensibly on an M-1 visa acting as the spokesman for a US corporation, then having the blind temerity to tell another US corporation to mind it's own business? Astonishing bravado but unwise given your legal status in this country as a student and ONLY a student. Stick to studying aviation LDMax not immigration law but as you are so interested I suggest you read 8 CFR 214.4(a)(xv) (Chapter 8 Code of Federal Regulations) which is entitled "Withdrawal of School Approval - Failure to maintain accreditation or licensing necessary to qualify graduates." It's black and white, not open to personal interpretation. However I will give you one credit. INS does have discretion but only within the law and the law states 30 days to supply the information required when notification of intent to withdraw school approval is received.
To say that 9/11 has nothing to do with the situation displays a deeply flawed understanding of immigration events following the tragedy. Certain politicians are itching to slap down flight schools and impose further restrictions. The Member of Congress for Brevard County tabled legislation imposing a moratorium on student visa's. The Florida legislature considered a licensing scheme for pilots. A tidal wave of anti-flight school rhetoric that could so easily have decimated our industry. So LDMax you should thank those of us in this industry who worked hard to keep the doors open to foreign students such as yourself. And despite your misplaced and naive derision of our efforts, many of us are determined not to give ammunition to those who want more control over flight schools. Debenair, OBA, Voyager, NAC - all of us in this industry have a responsibility to keep legislators eyes away from flight training.
I note the other comments you made but see no need to respond on this forum.
Suffice to say that I expect the law to be applied evenly no matter what you, as a temporary student in this country happens to believe.
To say that 9/11 has nothing to do with the situation displays a deeply flawed understanding of immigration events following the tragedy. Certain politicians are itching to slap down flight schools and impose further restrictions. The Member of Congress for Brevard County tabled legislation imposing a moratorium on student visa's. The Florida legislature considered a licensing scheme for pilots. A tidal wave of anti-flight school rhetoric that could so easily have decimated our industry. So LDMax you should thank those of us in this industry who worked hard to keep the doors open to foreign students such as yourself. And despite your misplaced and naive derision of our efforts, many of us are determined not to give ammunition to those who want more control over flight schools. Debenair, OBA, Voyager, NAC - all of us in this industry have a responsibility to keep legislators eyes away from flight training.
I note the other comments you made but see no need to respond on this forum.
Suffice to say that I expect the law to be applied evenly no matter what you, as a temporary student in this country happens to believe.
Last edited by cfimei; 28th Jul 2004 at 05:39.
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So, what you are actually trying to say in your 'protective' way LD - remember now, I'm only trying to protect student pilots interests here, ones like you - the school could no longer meet the standards laid down for FAR 141?
Yes or no?
Also the first item, the very first one on the website, regarding the issue of visas is under some significant doubt.
Yes or no.
It is actually that simple - stop the baffling with bull. I don't care if the school is run by the Holy of of the Sisters of St Titus - it is a commercial flight school out to make a living from wannabees money. This forum is for wannabees not the schools - is that clear to you?
Answer the 2 questions or continue to have your replies written off as bluff and bluster. Is the website accurate? Tell the truth in 25 words or less or clear off this forum.
Rob Lloyd
Yes or no?
Also the first item, the very first one on the website, regarding the issue of visas is under some significant doubt.
Yes or no.
It is actually that simple - stop the baffling with bull. I don't care if the school is run by the Holy of of the Sisters of St Titus - it is a commercial flight school out to make a living from wannabees money. This forum is for wannabees not the schools - is that clear to you?
Answer the 2 questions or continue to have your replies written off as bluff and bluster. Is the website accurate? Tell the truth in 25 words or less or clear off this forum.
Rob Lloyd
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Rob M8, before you publicly chastise LD Max, you might want to find out who he is. Rumor has it, he is a Moderator for PPRuNe in the Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) forum who has direct ties to DeBenair Aviation Services Inc, posting under and assumed name. 
TTF
TTF
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TTF, thanks for the promotion, but I am not a moderator. I am a JAA ATPL(F) & FI(R), and FAA CPL/IR ME & SE and an FAA ASC. I live in Reading, Berkshire, UK, and will be returning there on Friday to be with my family and try to get a job.
I do not claim to be a spokesman for an American company. My connection with Debenair is purely as a Student, but as I said before, I count the management as friends and will not stand by to see them lambasted by lies.
My visa is perfectly secure thank you CFI MEI. Your veiled threats are of no concern to me. I wonder if your own visa is as secure. You're not exactly American are you! What visa do you hold? I wonder if the INS or Border Patrol would take as much interest in you as you have taken in Debenair? How long were you illegally working on an E1 visa? Remember the bit I mentioned about glass houses?
Perhaps you should concentrate on flight training instead of delving into the operations of another company.
PPRuNe Towers:
You're a moderator? Would you stand by and watch a perfectly good school's reputation get shot away if you knew that the accusations against them were false?
Now CFIMEI admitted in a previous post:
So I suggest you make the same point to him about this forum being for the benefit of students.
Here are the straight answers to your questions: Facts only.
1) YES: The school could no longer meet the standards for FAR 141 because it dismissed it's chief instructor, who went to work with "CFI MEI" at Voyager Aviation in Merrit Island FL. Debenair voluntarily surrendered its Part 141 pending the recruitment of a replacement Chief Instructor. They have now hired a replacement and an application for the Part 141 is currently being processed.
2) YES: I say again, Debenair remains authorised to issue M-1 Student Visas, pending a decision by the INS. That decision will be made in due course at the INS officer's discretion. The INS officer knows his jurisdiction and limits of authority, and if anyone has a problem with that, they should take it up with him. I would expect a short answer though!
3) I agree this forum is for the benefit of students. They deserve first class training. They will get first class training at Debenair. Overseas Students will require an M-1 Visa which they can obtain from Debenair. To suggest that Debenair has had their visa approval status removed is misleading to students and would encourage them to look elsewhere under false pretences.
Clear enough?
I am jumping down CFI MEI's throat because he is using this forum to spread damn lies about Debenair's operations, in the hope of damaging the company and persuading students to go elsewhere. His motives are personal and unprofessional, and he has no right to use this forum as a sounding board for his own grudges.
Listen up. I am a student. I am very satisfied with Debenair and would recommend them to any other student. I have no axe to grind with CFI MEI or anyone else on a commercial level. But I
WILL NOT allow him to make these absurd claims without challenging him and letting everyone know the truth.
The truth is that CFIMEI at Voyager aviation has been waging a long-standing vendetta against Debenair, by making complaints to the authorities at every opportunity. In every case, the authorities have engaged in productive dialogue with Debenair to resolve any issues and are satisfied that the Company is acting professionally. CFIMEI cannot stand the fact that his multiple attempts to cause Debenair harm have failed, and so he is now using this forum in an attempt to persuade students that Debenair are somehow going to fail them in their expectations.
Everything he has said about Debenair is scurrilous and inaccurate.
As for the debate on post 9/11 effects on visas... I say again, CFIMEI's comments have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. That is a whole different debate, (and quite a worthwhile one too), but is totally irrelevant to the context in which CFIMEI's comments have been applied.
I am interested to note, (however), that CFIMEI makes one good point.
Unfortunately, his actions are doing the exact opposite.
I do not claim to be a spokesman for an American company. My connection with Debenair is purely as a Student, but as I said before, I count the management as friends and will not stand by to see them lambasted by lies.
My visa is perfectly secure thank you CFI MEI. Your veiled threats are of no concern to me. I wonder if your own visa is as secure. You're not exactly American are you! What visa do you hold? I wonder if the INS or Border Patrol would take as much interest in you as you have taken in Debenair? How long were you illegally working on an E1 visa? Remember the bit I mentioned about glass houses?
Perhaps you should concentrate on flight training instead of delving into the operations of another company.
PPRuNe Towers:
You're a moderator? Would you stand by and watch a perfectly good school's reputation get shot away if you knew that the accusations against them were false?
Now CFIMEI admitted in a previous post:
oddly enough QUITEASILYDONE is right - i didn't post the message for the benefit of Debenair students. i posted it for the benefit of our industry's reputation...
Here are the straight answers to your questions: Facts only.
1) YES: The school could no longer meet the standards for FAR 141 because it dismissed it's chief instructor, who went to work with "CFI MEI" at Voyager Aviation in Merrit Island FL. Debenair voluntarily surrendered its Part 141 pending the recruitment of a replacement Chief Instructor. They have now hired a replacement and an application for the Part 141 is currently being processed.
2) YES: I say again, Debenair remains authorised to issue M-1 Student Visas, pending a decision by the INS. That decision will be made in due course at the INS officer's discretion. The INS officer knows his jurisdiction and limits of authority, and if anyone has a problem with that, they should take it up with him. I would expect a short answer though!
3) I agree this forum is for the benefit of students. They deserve first class training. They will get first class training at Debenair. Overseas Students will require an M-1 Visa which they can obtain from Debenair. To suggest that Debenair has had their visa approval status removed is misleading to students and would encourage them to look elsewhere under false pretences.
Clear enough?
I am jumping down CFI MEI's throat because he is using this forum to spread damn lies about Debenair's operations, in the hope of damaging the company and persuading students to go elsewhere. His motives are personal and unprofessional, and he has no right to use this forum as a sounding board for his own grudges.
Listen up. I am a student. I am very satisfied with Debenair and would recommend them to any other student. I have no axe to grind with CFI MEI or anyone else on a commercial level. But I
WILL NOT allow him to make these absurd claims without challenging him and letting everyone know the truth.
The truth is that CFIMEI at Voyager aviation has been waging a long-standing vendetta against Debenair, by making complaints to the authorities at every opportunity. In every case, the authorities have engaged in productive dialogue with Debenair to resolve any issues and are satisfied that the Company is acting professionally. CFIMEI cannot stand the fact that his multiple attempts to cause Debenair harm have failed, and so he is now using this forum in an attempt to persuade students that Debenair are somehow going to fail them in their expectations.
Everything he has said about Debenair is scurrilous and inaccurate.
As for the debate on post 9/11 effects on visas... I say again, CFIMEI's comments have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. That is a whole different debate, (and quite a worthwhile one too), but is totally irrelevant to the context in which CFIMEI's comments have been applied.
I am interested to note, (however), that CFIMEI makes one good point.
Debenair, OBA, Voyager, NAC - all of us in this industry have a responsibility to keep legislators eyes away from flight training.
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Well I'm very surprized to read this thread about a school that I've had so much fun at with both friends and family a like.
I've been there 3 times now since I first booked some hours with them in 2001 and I was pleased to see them getting bigger and better every time I return there.
I have only just returned from a quick week out there 'dodging the thunder storms' and can report that all is well. In fact everything is 'more than well' !
Annette has just employed a new Chief Flying Instructor and this guy is keen as mustard to take the school to the next level. I'm sure the 141 side of things will be sorted very shortly.
Not only that but Annette has great plans in the pipeline for her flight school and this cant have gone unseen or noticed by some of her fellow training providers. I would suggest that this is the true reason for all the finger pointing and whistle blowing.
Rest assured that this school is on the up and I'm very pleased for all those who have backed Annette as they have.
I'm also glad to see that Annette herself has bounced back so well after the sad loss of her husband Bill.......It would have been far easier for her to have just thrown in the towel sold the aircraft + school and headed back to the UK with a nice fat cheque. But Annetta lives for her flying school (shes there 7 days a week) and she is only happy when her pilots are happy.
To give you an example of this she was down in the dumps that the thunderstorms had prevented me from doing much flying during the week I was there.....as if she could have done anything about the weather ! ! !
Watch this space......the school is on the up and I'm tickled pink for her and everyone else thats back her up over the years. You know who you all are !
As for those of you that have mocked the school (and theres only one that springs to mind) shame on you.....The lady is a real star and she's worth a whole coach load of other schools I could name ! ! !
But why take my word for it.....The school will shotly be opening a canteen with full list of popular English meals. If you are missing a real sunday roast then its suggested shortly that every sunday should be a 'fly-in' to enjoy a taste of home.
What better time to pop in and see the school and meet the students / instructors for yourself ?
As for me....I've already booked to go back again. Fingers crossed that the weather's a bit better......or there will be another small depression in Florida !
Just in case anyone was wondering.....What connections do I have with the school ?
NONE - I work for her maj and also co own a company that imports and exports aircraft + a more than happy customer of this flight school....
Cheers
I've been there 3 times now since I first booked some hours with them in 2001 and I was pleased to see them getting bigger and better every time I return there.
I have only just returned from a quick week out there 'dodging the thunder storms' and can report that all is well. In fact everything is 'more than well' !
Annette has just employed a new Chief Flying Instructor and this guy is keen as mustard to take the school to the next level. I'm sure the 141 side of things will be sorted very shortly.
Not only that but Annette has great plans in the pipeline for her flight school and this cant have gone unseen or noticed by some of her fellow training providers. I would suggest that this is the true reason for all the finger pointing and whistle blowing.
Rest assured that this school is on the up and I'm very pleased for all those who have backed Annette as they have.
I'm also glad to see that Annette herself has bounced back so well after the sad loss of her husband Bill.......It would have been far easier for her to have just thrown in the towel sold the aircraft + school and headed back to the UK with a nice fat cheque. But Annetta lives for her flying school (shes there 7 days a week) and she is only happy when her pilots are happy.
To give you an example of this she was down in the dumps that the thunderstorms had prevented me from doing much flying during the week I was there.....as if she could have done anything about the weather ! ! !
Watch this space......the school is on the up and I'm tickled pink for her and everyone else thats back her up over the years. You know who you all are !
As for those of you that have mocked the school (and theres only one that springs to mind) shame on you.....The lady is a real star and she's worth a whole coach load of other schools I could name ! ! !
But why take my word for it.....The school will shotly be opening a canteen with full list of popular English meals. If you are missing a real sunday roast then its suggested shortly that every sunday should be a 'fly-in' to enjoy a taste of home.
What better time to pop in and see the school and meet the students / instructors for yourself ?
As for me....I've already booked to go back again. Fingers crossed that the weather's a bit better......or there will be another small depression in Florida !
Just in case anyone was wondering.....What connections do I have with the school ?
NONE - I work for her maj and also co own a company that imports and exports aircraft + a more than happy customer of this flight school....
Cheers
Last edited by BIG MISTER; 8th Aug 2004 at 22:18.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Debenair
Hi Guy's,
I have been to debenair on several occasions and
had a great experience with them.
IT'S NICE TO SEE PEOPLE STICKING UP FOR THEM
THEY DESERVE IT.
GREAT POST "BIG MISTER".
If it was'nt for me moving I would still be training there
they are very helpful and it is good to see them do well.
It is unfortunate that people say negative things
about a school that they themselves don't is true.
I know the only two schools I would go to in the
states and debenair is one of them.
safe flying ALL
MIKE
I have been to debenair on several occasions and
had a great experience with them.
IT'S NICE TO SEE PEOPLE STICKING UP FOR THEM
THEY DESERVE IT.
GREAT POST "BIG MISTER".
If it was'nt for me moving I would still be training there
they are very helpful and it is good to see them do well.
It is unfortunate that people say negative things
about a school that they themselves don't is true.
I know the only two schools I would go to in the
states and debenair is one of them.
safe flying ALL
MIKE
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: All over the shop and sometimes BEHIND YOU !
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Nice to hear it mate !
I have just dropped you a personal message for your info.
Send my regards to Annette and the lads out there and remind Ryan that he's dead when I next see him ! ! !
Cheers + enjoy ! ! !
www.bigmisters.co.uk
I have just dropped you a personal message for your info.
Send my regards to Annette and the lads out there and remind Ryan that he's dead when I next see him ! ! !
Cheers + enjoy ! ! !
www.bigmisters.co.uk
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Hi there,
Yup been there last year and going back in a weeks time. its a great school and great value for money. The lady who runs the school is like a mother to the students. She sincerely has their best interests at heart. I couldn't recommend them more, thats why i'm going back to finish my training. They are also doing JAR licences now which suits me even better. If you want some more info pm me and i'll be happy to help. Good luck.
Steve
Yup been there last year and going back in a weeks time. its a great school and great value for money. The lady who runs the school is like a mother to the students. She sincerely has their best interests at heart. I couldn't recommend them more, thats why i'm going back to finish my training. They are also doing JAR licences now which suits me even better. If you want some more info pm me and i'll be happy to help. Good luck.
Steve
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: uk
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yes i was there Oct-Dec 2003 highly recomend it, went with 40hrs
no ppl came back with 260 hrs cpl multi IR now doing the dreaded
14 JAA exams with 6 to go! the school has gone through some changes for the better. the lady who runs it is a british lady from leeds and will do anything for you, she picks you up from the airport and will lend you a bike for transport. I flew all over Florida. Key West to Atlanta and plenty of trips to lake Okachobee building those hours! you will find it great value for money even more so now with the strong pound. the aircraft were not the best around but well maintained. you pay as you fly and she is not there to steal your money. you may email [email protected] with any Q's. there used to be an 0800 telephone to call the school. good Luck!
no ppl came back with 260 hrs cpl multi IR now doing the dreaded
14 JAA exams with 6 to go! the school has gone through some changes for the better. the lady who runs it is a british lady from leeds and will do anything for you, she picks you up from the airport and will lend you a bike for transport. I flew all over Florida. Key West to Atlanta and plenty of trips to lake Okachobee building those hours! you will find it great value for money even more so now with the strong pound. the aircraft were not the best around but well maintained. you pay as you fly and she is not there to steal your money. you may email [email protected] with any Q's. there used to be an 0800 telephone to call the school. good Luck!
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From the news I received recently, I would say that "they" (DeBenair) don't have any standards - as all they do is rent aircraft for hour building.
No instruction going at DeBenair. What does your buddy hope to do?
No instruction going at DeBenair. What does your buddy hope to do?
Flies for fun
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Well, you can start by asking Keygrip because he knows just about everything about every training place in Florida since he lives and works in aviation training there! You might even find him sitting next to you if you do a checkride there one day
Join Date: May 2005
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Recent Debenair hour builders
Hi all,
Anyone been to Debenair for hour building recently? I am thinking of going very early May. Anyone have recent experience and advice?
Also curious as to whether or not I can do an Me and night rating there.
I don't think they are JAR, but have had no replies from them lately ( maybe my emails didn't get through?). If I can't do ME / Night there, where is there a school close by I could complete the ratings before going home?
Debenair have a great $60 dollar rate for hr building whuch I financially can't argue with....?
Any comments very welcomed!!!
Cheers
PM
Anyone been to Debenair for hour building recently? I am thinking of going very early May. Anyone have recent experience and advice?
Also curious as to whether or not I can do an Me and night rating there.
I don't think they are JAR, but have had no replies from them lately ( maybe my emails didn't get through?). If I can't do ME / Night there, where is there a school close by I could complete the ratings before going home?
Debenair have a great $60 dollar rate for hr building whuch I financially can't argue with....?
Any comments very welcomed!!!
Cheers
PM
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You can get the list of UK CAA approved RTFs and FTOs from their website, with a bit of digging. I don't *think* debonair was on either last time I looked but you could download yourself a copy and look.
Afraid I don't know if the IAA (or any other JAA member states other than the UK) have authorised any overseas training centres but I have a feeling they haven't.
Afraid I don't know if the IAA (or any other JAA member states other than the UK) have authorised any overseas training centres but I have a feeling they haven't.