JAA ATPL Theory Study
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m4x
Don't worry about it, I also ended up doing full time study and was in a similar position 8 hours at the school and then feeling worried about how much or how little of it I could remember. YOU CANNOT STUDY ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT! The technique used on my last module was relax a bit more in the class and take less notes than I was doing, after the 8 hours at school I would take 1-2 hours off then I would spend 1 hour max going over key points of the day (drawing tables etc.) which were put on my large notice board. I would then spend varying amounts of time doing as many feedback questions as I could get hold off. I would get the Bristol online database asap as I found it very good practise, flight plannning and genral nav. require lots of practise as you need to be fairly quick and accurate with the questions. It seems very daunting near the start of the ATPL's work hard but relax in between and you will be ok.
Best of luck.
Don't worry about it, I also ended up doing full time study and was in a similar position 8 hours at the school and then feeling worried about how much or how little of it I could remember. YOU CANNOT STUDY ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT! The technique used on my last module was relax a bit more in the class and take less notes than I was doing, after the 8 hours at school I would take 1-2 hours off then I would spend 1 hour max going over key points of the day (drawing tables etc.) which were put on my large notice board. I would then spend varying amounts of time doing as many feedback questions as I could get hold off. I would get the Bristol online database asap as I found it very good practise, flight plannning and genral nav. require lots of practise as you need to be fairly quick and accurate with the questions. It seems very daunting near the start of the ATPL's work hard but relax in between and you will be ok.
Best of luck.
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Hi m4x
Check out this thread on the subject I started a while ago:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267998
I would ignore any disheartening comments, there is nothing unsual about you situation. My comments would be:
1. It takes a while to get into the swing of it and find your own effective techniques and practices.
2. Don't be too ambitious about timescales . You don't get any extra brownie points for finishing in 8mths as opposed to 15mths. Concentrate on quality time of study time, not quantity. I don't study past 9pm, I usually do 1-2 hrs before work, 2hrs during the day at work (!) and maybe an hour in the evening, plus time on the train in/out of London every day. Seems to work quite well.
3. Getting up very early and studying is better then studying in the evening. Better to use your evening for sleeping!
4. I guess the previous points lead to...having a study plan.
5. Don't try to reach some kind of nirvana of understanding on each topic. Firstly, the material isn't appropriate for doing so, and secondly its just about passing exams.its not a Phd....you can go back and do it in more depth after you have qualified if you want to.
6. Half the battle is being familiar with how the exam questions are phrased and applying your recall to them correctly. Therefore I personally am spending at least a third of my time practising questions from question banks.
and finally, don't get disheartened (thats a waste of valueable time for a start!)....and try and enjoy the work....some of it is actually interesting...I thought, for example, I knew a bit about how wings worked from my PPL...I now realise I knew diddly squat (now I just know squat!)...
all the best
Check out this thread on the subject I started a while ago:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267998
I would ignore any disheartening comments, there is nothing unsual about you situation. My comments would be:
1. It takes a while to get into the swing of it and find your own effective techniques and practices.
2. Don't be too ambitious about timescales . You don't get any extra brownie points for finishing in 8mths as opposed to 15mths. Concentrate on quality time of study time, not quantity. I don't study past 9pm, I usually do 1-2 hrs before work, 2hrs during the day at work (!) and maybe an hour in the evening, plus time on the train in/out of London every day. Seems to work quite well.
3. Getting up very early and studying is better then studying in the evening. Better to use your evening for sleeping!
4. I guess the previous points lead to...having a study plan.
5. Don't try to reach some kind of nirvana of understanding on each topic. Firstly, the material isn't appropriate for doing so, and secondly its just about passing exams.its not a Phd....you can go back and do it in more depth after you have qualified if you want to.
6. Half the battle is being familiar with how the exam questions are phrased and applying your recall to them correctly. Therefore I personally am spending at least a third of my time practising questions from question banks.
and finally, don't get disheartened (thats a waste of valueable time for a start!)....and try and enjoy the work....some of it is actually interesting...I thought, for example, I knew a bit about how wings worked from my PPL...I now realise I knew diddly squat (now I just know squat!)...
all the best
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Little help
I am still in the middel of these exams, but so far.. still a good average.
I know there's a lot of people around learning only feedback
even for calculation questions (gennav mass ballance etc). That does not work for me, it saves you a hell of a lot of time just to learn the methods in this case. Make little drawings of compass and polar chart q's.
For all the other questions I use the (expensinve) Bristol to prepare, but I also use this site http://atpl.sep2jet.com to do some quizzes. Keeps track of results and its free!
Personally I think performance was the most difficult so far, not much questions, so bust 1 4 pointer and your getting low already and we used the old CAP 
Good luck!
I know there's a lot of people around learning only feedback
even for calculation questions (gennav mass ballance etc). That does not work for me, it saves you a hell of a lot of time just to learn the methods in this case. Make little drawings of compass and polar chart q's.For all the other questions I use the (expensinve) Bristol to prepare, but I also use this site http://atpl.sep2jet.com to do some quizzes. Keeps track of results and its free!
Personally I think performance was the most difficult so far, not much questions, so bust 1 4 pointer and your getting low already
and we used the old CAP Good luck!
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easy solution
All you need to do is memorise bristols question bank for each subject until you get 98% or above. The caa will use feedback for at least 70% of each paper and often a lot higher than that eg comms and law.This basically means that you can guess the rest and still pass and if you know anything you should get over 80% +. so my advise to you is to do 50 questions per day in each bank and then blitz it on weekends.Bristol got a huge grant to set up the question bank.THE CAA DO USE IT. 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Turbine and Leeds are both correct- learn the stuff as best you can- but use bristol to make sure you pass. Do invest in Oxford's excellent CDROM material- bear in mind they don't use this in class....strange.......
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It dosent really matter, Leads 65 has hit the nail on the head. On my last brush up, guys who were ofay with the subjetcs got hit hard when doing feedback questions.(especially those with no exposeure to the Qbank!!) Its not about the knowledge its about interpretation! Most of the questions are riddles to figure out. Its more like sitting reasoning tests than knowledge exmainations!
People knew the gen but couldnt handle the questioning style, thats where the Question bank is like pure gold!! Well done Alex and Bristol
People knew the gen but couldnt handle the questioning style, thats where the Question bank is like pure gold!! Well done Alex and Bristol
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Apples and Oranges
I'm sorry but that has to be the most absurd statement I have ever heard.
ATPL theory to many is extremely difficult and many simply cannot get their heads around the various topics.
Whereas others may have a problem in learning off many many rules/ laws figures etc that seem totally unneccesary and irrelevant to the modern day commercial airline pilot.
On the other hand there are the type of people that can learn anything given the time.
That is why I believe it is impossible to either agree or disagree 100% with this statement.
There are too many different types of people out there with different aptitudes for different aspects of learning to sweep all with the one brush.
Take another look at the subjects and realise the difference between studyin for Air Law/ Comms etc and compare them to studying for Instruments/ Radio Nav etc.
Apples and Oranges my friend.
ATPL theory to many is extremely difficult and many simply cannot get their heads around the various topics.
Whereas others may have a problem in learning off many many rules/ laws figures etc that seem totally unneccesary and irrelevant to the modern day commercial airline pilot.
On the other hand there are the type of people that can learn anything given the time.
That is why I believe it is impossible to either agree or disagree 100% with this statement.
There are too many different types of people out there with different aptitudes for different aspects of learning to sweep all with the one brush.
Take another look at the subjects and realise the difference between studyin for Air Law/ Comms etc and compare them to studying for Instruments/ Radio Nav etc.
Apples and Oranges my friend.
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I think..............................discuss
And what exactly are we meant to be discussing here? and what a first post! That has to be up there with some of the absolute gems from xxx147.
Any in depth subject is likely to be rather difficult if an individual refuses to read through the material that explains it!
Any in depth subject is likely to be rather difficult if an individual refuses to read through the material that explains it!
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I believe the groundschool is so intense and filled with such apparently 'useless' information, so as to filter out the people who really shouldn't be chasing this fantastic career!!
Yes its hard, and the only people that get all the way through it are the people that REALLY want the career!!
Bit of a weird statement at the top though!!!
Yes its hard, and the only people that get all the way through it are the people that REALLY want the career!!
Bit of a weird statement at the top though!!!
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I think the fact that many many people pass the ATPL exams after a bit of work with averages in the low-mid 90s tells you that the exams are not hard if you put your mind to them and have a moderate level of academic ability.... why is that so controversial??
You should try professional accounting or medical exams.... those can be very tough
You should try professional accounting or medical exams.... those can be very tough
Last edited by Grass strip basher; 27th Mar 2007 at 13:17.
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Can we claim the old stereotype here? Little Johnny (or Jenny) not wanting to go to Uni and not really sure what they want in life, spring upon the idea of doing an ATPL (PPL/ATPL paid for by parents) as a way of making money and doing...something. However when it comes to doing the theory the usual issues of maturity, experience and dedication ensue.
Professional Student
Well, it can't be that hard if (presumably) you can take time out from your studies to post pointless & patronising "Discuss" threads on PPRuNe, 13375p34k....
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Average pass mark rises as questions seep out into wwww
Well there is a lot to learn but the average pass mark is very high for most schools. (>90)
Its a little easier now that the question banks are available electronically the www is a great tool for self directed learning
No negative marking as there used to be in the UK; and no morse exam
As for medicine that requires high grades to enter flying requires none just determination
Its a little easier now that the question banks are available electronically the www is a great tool for self directed learning
No negative marking as there used to be in the UK; and no morse exam
As for medicine that requires high grades to enter flying requires none just determination
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why study in the first place if you don't want to do it?
It may be worth pointing out that at least one of the people who didn't study was still trying to pass his exams two years after the first of us passed!
TB
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Heh, sounds familiar!!! Were you in my class recently, TB?
Trouble is with full-time classroom study, the disruptive lot spoils the efforts for those who need to study their arses off in order to get a decent chance of passing first time. Distance-learning is an advantage in this respect.
Trouble is with full-time classroom study, the disruptive lot spoils the efforts for those who need to study their arses off in order to get a decent chance of passing first time. Distance-learning is an advantage in this respect.
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the ATPL theory is hard, but it certainly is not impossible to pass if you study. i passed flight planning on my first attempt just the other day, and im sitting performance next monday.
we'll see how it works out but its not THAT difficult.
however i agree with token bird, the classes are very much divided into two halves. very interesting
we'll see how it works out but its not THAT difficult.
however i agree with token bird, the classes are very much divided into two halves. very interesting