How are people affording to complete their training?
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Originally Posted by femaleWannabe
hehe, I started saving when I was about your age... got a part time job when i was 16, bought a car and went to uni when i was 17... bought a flat when i was 18, I'm now 21 and its all gone 
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Originally Posted by ultimatepro63
How much were you able to save up ? (Just wanting to get the general idea)
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Try doing close protection work in Iraq like me , loads of tax free money and will have more than enough cash to start training at the start of next year, Not advisable in hindsight , but i think it will be worth it in the end, hey ho !
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Funding ! Help !
Hi guys currently on the last week of my study for ground school. Just wondering i know that the HSBC loan route is shut down. Just wondering does anyone know of any companys giving good rate to pilots or good rates in general. Been having a good look around myself just wondering if any one had any advice or experience on specific companys.
Regards
Precisionlandings
Regards
Precisionlandings
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Originally Posted by Ben Parkin
Try doing close protection work in Iraq like me , loads of tax free money and will have more than enough cash to start training at the start of next year, Not advisable in hindsight , but i think it will be worth it in the end, hey ho !
I'll be thinking of you next time someone spoils my day!
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I built up a successful career which pays a decent wage. I worked for a number of years, in the meantime I got my PPL and built up some hours.
Having debt looks easy, but I think it is the last thing you want to do, particuarly when SSTR, working for peanuts, and having to work away from home are the order of the day.
I've met many who borrowed the money, but an equal amount who have been loaned money by parents and family. The latter is clearly the easier means.
Working for 5+ years to save isn't ideal. I am constantly aware that for those who simply borrowed the cash are now some years ahead of me. In addition, the older you are the more routes get closed to you. It also seems to be harder and more expensive the longer you leave it.
Having debt looks easy, but I think it is the last thing you want to do, particuarly when SSTR, working for peanuts, and having to work away from home are the order of the day.
I've met many who borrowed the money, but an equal amount who have been loaned money by parents and family. The latter is clearly the easier means.
Working for 5+ years to save isn't ideal. I am constantly aware that for those who simply borrowed the cash are now some years ahead of me. In addition, the older you are the more routes get closed to you. It also seems to be harder and more expensive the longer you leave it.
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I agree that the longer you wait, the harder it gets, but it also gives you more life experience, and I think that having to save up the money first will make you appreciate it a bit more when you finally get there.
I used to want to borrow £60k and go and do an integrated course, but then I realised i'd have to either sell my flat, or double my mortgage, with no guarantee of a job at the end. So having graduated from uni a few months ago, I've got quite a good job and can afford to do my PPL. I'm going to try and fund the rest of my training as I go along, but will no doubt have to take some sort of loan towards the later stages. Also, funding it yourself instead of going for some kind of bond such as ctc, means you can start on the first officer pay scale and not a cadet one... I guess this really depends on how much of a loan you end up having to pay anyway, but I think for me at least, it will work out better.
Anyone tried gambling / stock market / investments to get the money?
I used to want to borrow £60k and go and do an integrated course, but then I realised i'd have to either sell my flat, or double my mortgage, with no guarantee of a job at the end. So having graduated from uni a few months ago, I've got quite a good job and can afford to do my PPL. I'm going to try and fund the rest of my training as I go along, but will no doubt have to take some sort of loan towards the later stages. Also, funding it yourself instead of going for some kind of bond such as ctc, means you can start on the first officer pay scale and not a cadet one... I guess this really depends on how much of a loan you end up having to pay anyway, but I think for me at least, it will work out better.
Anyone tried gambling / stock market / investments to get the money?
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A home owner only a few months after leaving Uni! You must be doing well. It took me a few years before I had enough cash to put a decent deposit down on my house.
Does it feel any better if you paid for it yourself? I don't feel that way. But, when looking at my blue book with my ratings and thoughts about how much cash it took me to get there, then I'm just pleased I don't have any debt. I still have my house too.
The comment about it getting harder relates to constant changes in regulations and further hoops to jump through.
- Five years ago, anyone with a SSTR would pretty much get a job. Nowadays this is not the case.
- CTC wasn't around 5 years ago pumping ab-initios into Easy Jet or the other charters, effectively cutting off the natural route modular students would take - now you can't get into certain airlines unless you've gone through a certain training organisation and are below a certain age.
- The wannabe market is flooded with people who borrowed the cash overnight. There was much less of this several years ago.
- What effect will licence changes have in the future - what about this multi-pilot licence?
As I said, things continue to change. You just don't know how it will evolve over the next few years.
Now, I'm facing another hurdle of money to throw at the career with thoughts of a SSTR, or becoming a FI. It never ceases to amaze me where people get the money to do all of this when they don't have another career to fund the change.
Does it feel any better if you paid for it yourself? I don't feel that way. But, when looking at my blue book with my ratings and thoughts about how much cash it took me to get there, then I'm just pleased I don't have any debt. I still have my house too.
The comment about it getting harder relates to constant changes in regulations and further hoops to jump through.
- Five years ago, anyone with a SSTR would pretty much get a job. Nowadays this is not the case.
- CTC wasn't around 5 years ago pumping ab-initios into Easy Jet or the other charters, effectively cutting off the natural route modular students would take - now you can't get into certain airlines unless you've gone through a certain training organisation and are below a certain age.
- The wannabe market is flooded with people who borrowed the cash overnight. There was much less of this several years ago.
- What effect will licence changes have in the future - what about this multi-pilot licence?
As I said, things continue to change. You just don't know how it will evolve over the next few years.
Now, I'm facing another hurdle of money to throw at the career with thoughts of a SSTR, or becoming a FI. It never ceases to amaze me where people get the money to do all of this when they don't have another career to fund the change.
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Sometimes I wonder if I live on another planet.
I'm 26, with a decently paid job in education and somehow struggling to get to the end of my PPL (getting there, but slowly. The Scottish weather has been putting a brake on it anyway !) yet there's a whole lot of 19 years old ready to start an integrated or about to finish a modular route.
I wonder if I use the same currency as some of you guys ?
With the best intentions, I can't expect to get near to an ATPL before the age of 29 or 30, and that already takes into consideration avoiding fancy holidays, new car and expensive night life !
Having said that, the pleasure of getting there the long and hard way round makes every single minute spent in the air amazing and priceless !
Good luck to everybody
I'm 26, with a decently paid job in education and somehow struggling to get to the end of my PPL (getting there, but slowly. The Scottish weather has been putting a brake on it anyway !) yet there's a whole lot of 19 years old ready to start an integrated or about to finish a modular route.
I wonder if I use the same currency as some of you guys ?
With the best intentions, I can't expect to get near to an ATPL before the age of 29 or 30, and that already takes into consideration avoiding fancy holidays, new car and expensive night life !
Having said that, the pleasure of getting there the long and hard way round makes every single minute spent in the air amazing and priceless !
Good luck to everybody
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raviolis,
Where in scotland are you? I'm in edinburgh, have only had one lesson so far and already know where you're coming from with the scottish weather!
I'm hoping to have finished training by the time I'm 26/27, but it all depends on whether I can save up the cash, and get enough time off work... I can't afford to stop working but am beginning to wonder who it's possible to do all the training without taking unpaid leave
Where in scotland are you? I'm in edinburgh, have only had one lesson so far and already know where you're coming from with the scottish weather!
I'm hoping to have finished training by the time I'm 26/27, but it all depends on whether I can save up the cash, and get enough time off work... I can't afford to stop working but am beginning to wonder who it's possible to do all the training without taking unpaid leave
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Taking unpaid leave will make it easier on yourself. I couldn't imagine doing the IR with a full-time job.
I took unpaid leave, and used my holiday too. For the ATPL groundschool, I saved up two weeks holiday from one year and carried that over into the following year. I used a total of six weeks from my holiday to do the residential part of the distance learning course, including the exam weeks. I had enough leave left to take a weeks holiday too!
I arranged with work to take four months unpaid leave for part of my hour building, the MEP, CPL and IR. I took 14 weeks to do that part.
I gave the business I work for one year's notice to do this, since I knew it would take around 10-12 months to do the groundschool. I couldn't believe that they actually had an unpaid leave request form for me to fill out.
The CPL could be done part-time. It's easier than the PPL. I would strongly recommend to anyone that this is done at a good school in the US if you are on a time constraint. My CPL took little over 1 week to do, but elapsed time and wasted days due to poor weather made it take 4 weeks. (I did the 15hr course, since I had done my IR, otherwise its the 25hr course). Some people had taken well over 2 months to do the course. In the US you are guranteed decent weather, so for me I really regretted not getting it done in the US with OATS. Unfortunately, I realised this far too late on, and OATS had no spaces for a couple of months.
I took unpaid leave, and used my holiday too. For the ATPL groundschool, I saved up two weeks holiday from one year and carried that over into the following year. I used a total of six weeks from my holiday to do the residential part of the distance learning course, including the exam weeks. I had enough leave left to take a weeks holiday too!
I arranged with work to take four months unpaid leave for part of my hour building, the MEP, CPL and IR. I took 14 weeks to do that part.
I gave the business I work for one year's notice to do this, since I knew it would take around 10-12 months to do the groundschool. I couldn't believe that they actually had an unpaid leave request form for me to fill out.
The CPL could be done part-time. It's easier than the PPL. I would strongly recommend to anyone that this is done at a good school in the US if you are on a time constraint. My CPL took little over 1 week to do, but elapsed time and wasted days due to poor weather made it take 4 weeks. (I did the 15hr course, since I had done my IR, otherwise its the 25hr course). Some people had taken well over 2 months to do the course. In the US you are guranteed decent weather, so for me I really regretted not getting it done in the US with OATS. Unfortunately, I realised this far too late on, and OATS had no spaces for a couple of months.
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I think I've figured out how to plan it all without taking unpaid leave...
2006 do PPL and carry a weeks holiday over
2007 3 weeks atpl, 1 week hour building, 1 week holiday! carry 1 week
2008 3 weeks atpl, 2 weeks cpl/mep, doing the rest at weekends, 1 week holiday
2009 3 weeks IR, 2 weeks doing mcc/joc etc, hopefully get new job!
Maybe that is a bit optimistic, but I'll see how things go. Worst case scenario, I finish a year later...
2006 do PPL and carry a weeks holiday over
2007 3 weeks atpl, 1 week hour building, 1 week holiday! carry 1 week
2008 3 weeks atpl, 2 weeks cpl/mep, doing the rest at weekends, 1 week holiday
2009 3 weeks IR, 2 weeks doing mcc/joc etc, hopefully get new job!
Maybe that is a bit optimistic, but I'll see how things go. Worst case scenario, I finish a year later...
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I think you need to plan 6-8 weeks to do the IR. 3 weeks is a bit optimistic.
No need to spend 2 weeks doing a MCC course either. I did mine over a weekend, plus 5 weekday evenings (1hr brief, 4hrs for each sim slot).
No need to spend 2 weeks doing a MCC course either. I did mine over a weekend, plus 5 weekday evenings (1hr brief, 4hrs for each sim slot).
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could I do some of the IR at weekends and then finish it off with 3 weeks straight? That's how I'm hoping to do the CPL.. start doing it at weekends then complete it 2 weeks full time including test. Not sure if this is a good idea with the IR though. If I don't have to put aside too much time for the MCC, etc, I could dedicate 4 complete weeks to the IR, doing the rest at weekends... hmm.. this is never gonna work.
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Don't know what job you are in at the moment FW, but is there anyway you can work 4 days on, 4 days off. I know a few people who completed their training in their days off whilst keeping full time jobs. however, by far and away the best way to complete the CPL/ME IR training is to do it full time.
if the reason you need to continue working is because you have a mortgage to pay then it may help to consider alternatives.
first, you could move back home with your folks and rent your place out when training. takes the mortgage payments out of the equation.
or sell your flat. will free up some capital for training and you won't be worrying all the time about boilers blowing up or roofs leaking
. when you finish training you will need to be prepared to up sticks and move to the other end of the country for work. harder to do if you have a gaff to worry about. plus when your a shiny new FO earning megabucks in your fancy airbus, you can always buy another place.
oh, and just for your info, the scottish weather isn't all that bad if you know where to look. i have instructed a few zero to ppl students (plus night qual) in a tad under three weeks. all this in the middle of january in the frozen north of scotland.
if the reason you need to continue working is because you have a mortgage to pay then it may help to consider alternatives.
first, you could move back home with your folks and rent your place out when training. takes the mortgage payments out of the equation.
or sell your flat. will free up some capital for training and you won't be worrying all the time about boilers blowing up or roofs leaking
. when you finish training you will need to be prepared to up sticks and move to the other end of the country for work. harder to do if you have a gaff to worry about. plus when your a shiny new FO earning megabucks in your fancy airbus, you can always buy another place.oh, and just for your info, the scottish weather isn't all that bad if you know where to look. i have instructed a few zero to ppl students (plus night qual) in a tad under three weeks. all this in the middle of january in the frozen north of scotland.
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The main problem with work is that I've only been there a few months, so I don't think they'd look too kindly on me asking for time off / working part time etc. Also, it's a really small company (only 6 of us) so I'd be struggling to keep it quiet. If they knew I was taking time off to train for another career, they may well just tell me to go. I don't like to take advantage, they're pretty good to me already - just a shame it's not my first choice of career!
I've thought about moving back home and renting this place out, if I was giving up work and getting all my training done in a a couple of years, I'd go for it, but I'm looking at 4 years minimum, it's not really an option. My parents reckon they can loan me most of the money if it's spread out over a few years, and i pay them back when I can, so I guess that takes care of most of the cash flow issues, its just the time off work! Maybe I could take a month of unpaid leave in 2009 or something to do the IR, say I want to go travelling... although when I leave to join an airline, it may be a bit obvious...
Thanks for the point about scottish weather, you've given me some hope! Fingers crossed for the weather this weekend - I really want to get started properly. Have ordered all the books, so I'm planning to get the exam study done on all the days I can't fly
I've thought about moving back home and renting this place out, if I was giving up work and getting all my training done in a a couple of years, I'd go for it, but I'm looking at 4 years minimum, it's not really an option. My parents reckon they can loan me most of the money if it's spread out over a few years, and i pay them back when I can, so I guess that takes care of most of the cash flow issues, its just the time off work! Maybe I could take a month of unpaid leave in 2009 or something to do the IR, say I want to go travelling... although when I leave to join an airline, it may be a bit obvious...
Thanks for the point about scottish weather, you've given me some hope! Fingers crossed for the weather this weekend - I really want to get started properly. Have ordered all the books, so I'm planning to get the exam study done on all the days I can't fly
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Everyone is talking about paying it and going the long route. I plan to get into Oxford or JEREZ (Both very good schools by the looks of things) who then on passing their entrance and aptitude exams will organise a loan for you?
Am i mad or the only one looking at this?
Oh and the weather in Ireland has been crap too!
Am i mad or the only one looking at this?
Oh and the weather in Ireland has been crap too!
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Originally Posted by DUB-GREG
Everyone is talking about paying it and going the long route. I plan to get into Oxford or JEREZ (Both very good schools by the looks of things) who then on passing their entrance and aptitude exams will organise a loan for you?
Am i mad or the only one looking at this?
Oh and the weather in Ireland has been crap too!
Am i mad or the only one looking at this?
Oh and the weather in Ireland has been crap too!
Weather in Ireland is crap! Availability of aircraft is crap! You'd spend way too much money relearning. Only place in Ireland I would consider is PTC.
Anyone know when the JAA MPL is coming into effect? Will it reduce course prices? What will the Skill Test be like? (I guess we'll have to start a new thread for this)
