Orlando Flight Training

[Callsign Kilo]

OFT

I was there in March/April hourbuilding. You do a worringly quick check ride where you are shown a few local landmarks, thrown a 1/4 and 1/2 mil chart and away you go. Felt a bit uneasy on my first few flights as I had never flown in the US before and only had around 80-90 hours total time, so it was a steep learning curve. I didn't feel I got much help on the ground either, as most instructors who I asked questions regarding planning, airspace, wx etc seemed pretty unwilling to help (I felt that because I was an hourbuilder, rather than a student I was considered not to be worth the bother). It got to the point were I felt uncomfortable asking, and if it wasn't for a friendly British guy who was out there doing his CPL, I would have been in lumber! I might add that he and a few others in his group were fairly pissed off at the time due to scheduling and tech issues!

In the end I am only commenting as someone who simply hired an aircraft to do 40 hours of solo flying, so the story may be different from other actual students. There are a lot of good people there who work for the company, and as I said, some not so good. Based on my experience I wouldn't have conducted any type of training there, but that is only my opinion. Things may be a lot better

[oscar charlie 7]

I have been an instructor in the UK for almost ten years. I know we all have the reputation for being very snobby when it comes to American flight training but this is not the case.

If you are intending on flying in the UK then the best place for you to do any licence is in the UK. Likewise, if you are intending on flying in the USA then the States is the place to do your licence.

I have only heard bad things from students at OFT. One came back having been bullied close to tears to sit her licence after the appropriate 45 hours had elapsed. Another said that the aircraft she did her first solo in had no back to the seat! A lot of these schools claim you will be guaranteed your licence / rating in the minimum hours. Seems to good to be true? It is! For example, the average PPL in the UK is 55 hours and it seems amazing that in these flight schools, everyone sits their test at 45 hours? Did they all reach solo standard at the same time??

Anyway, not to be too depressing on the ole American system - I have only heard good things about the Californian and Texan flight schools. Avoid Florida like the plague (in my humble opinion)

[BA123]

OFT

Its ok for you to say avoid florida like the plague however there arent any caa approved flight schools in the texan area or california !!!

[PAJ]

Lots of negatives about OFT so far!! I came back from them at the end of august, having been out there for only 22 days total - with no powered time to speak of, only some gliding and very little preparation for ground school I finished my PPL and Night rating in 19 days. The guys and gals out there were excellent on the whole - some instructors better than others but all in all, they know their stuff and have lots of time for their students.

Mgt on the other hand are somewhat more debatable! You will hear lots of different things about the guys in the offices, much of it negative but I have to say that I didn't really have any probs. It's all down to your attitide I think. For me it was not a holiday - up at half five every day, try to fly twice/ three times a day, then up till gone eleven studying for ground exams and RT.

Treat mgt with respect and understand that they are running a business so are going to try to get money off you. If you have the right attitude and put in the effort, you can get everything done for what you are quoted - however, you will NOT be pushed to do that extra study -you have to tell them that you want to read ahead, or get that extra hour of ground school and they will help however they can.

I saved thousands on what I would have paid over here and got to fly to some amazing places - places that you just dont get back here. OFT are a good outfit in my opinion. Perhaps I am being naive but I've got my license which is what I wanted and had a good laugh and met some great people in the process.

[lilpilot]

OFT ATPL Residential Ground School

Anyone starting the October Ground School at OFT?
Thinking of either that in december or BGS...any thoughts welcome

[markymojo]

My oh my, OFT are having a bit of a slating here this week! Some of the critisisms may be valid, but I think it needs balancing a little.

I've spent a fair bit of time at OFT doing various things during my training. I came away feeling a little surprised at obvious gaps in the 'customer experience'. After then coming back to the UK and dealing with some of the schools here, I realised that actually OFT weren't so bad after all!

I agree if you're going to fly in a country then you should train there, but there is some leeway there i think. If you're intention is to only go as far as a PPL then perhaps training in the UK is best. But for someone with commercial aspirations who knows they are going to be spending 50k then the US is an option....

If you do your PPL in the states and then your CPL and IR in the UK, you can reasonably expect to be a competant UK flyer. Similar result if you do your PPL in the UK and then your CPL (and some hours building) in the states. Perhaps easier that way around because flying in the states is a lot more forgiving than the UK in terms of airspace and RT.

As for OFT, well yes there were things i griped about but on the whole I was pleased with what i got. Pilot training does not offer much hand-holding so you have to been assertive and pro active to ensure things work out.

The Ops staff were great, but you need to keep a close eye for occasional accounting mistakes (quickly resolved)! The support behind them was excellent too. Problems I had were quickly resolved by either the CFI, JP or the nice senior admin lady upstairs. I can't comment on bullying people to take their test, but I was never pushed forward to do my test when i wasn't ready, and i went over a little. A student pilot believing they're ready for a first solo or a test, is often different to that of the instructor. Who knows best? I don't know! But it would be awful for an instructor to know his student is ready, but just take the money anyway. I'M NOT SUGGESTING EITHER WAY IN THE CASE MENTIONED EARLIER!!

The free evening groundschool was useful, but you have to just get your head in the books too. On the whole the instructors were good, but i thought some (a small some) of the US instructors didn't apply themselves well to the students. Maybe this happens most places? There were some excellent instructors and i count myself fortunate in having one of them (British actually!). I wonder sometimes on the subtle cultural differences in the cockpit - tone of voice, phraseology, attitudes? Also the fact that US pilots generally have to go through the rights of passage that is instructing and so some just don't want to be there! More british instructors?

My only real critisism is of the maintenance of the aircraft. It was consistently suggested to me that a/c problems were caused by those who make the money decisions. Fair enough. But this balance of profit v safety was the biggest issue for me. And it shouldn't have to be because OFT, with it's high number of European students, must surely have better margins than most US schools?

If maintenance is no longer an issue (interested to hear), then I'd have no hestation in recommending OFT as a flight school. Great people and you'll enjoy your time there, make some fantastic friends from all over and possibly do some fantastic flying. Highlights for me were:

-> passing first time!
-> flying over the Smokey mountains one day, then flying into Memphis International (which is huge!) the next, borrowing a car and heading over to Graceland!
-> I suppose i should mention the winghouse too......

[hobbit1983]

Hard to forget the Winghouse

[Keygrip]

....and the Hoop Dee Doo, Capones and Dixie Stampede?

[hobbit1983]

Well I say hard. But hard to remember is a relative term, directly proportional to the amount of alcohol purchased from the lovely young serving ladies...

So…quite possibly! (Are they dances, bars or something else?) The "British" pubs were quite good too.

[markymojo]

Well i managed Dixies and Capones, even managed to beat Piers at crazy golf too! Admittedly I don't think he knew we were competing!

Never made it to the Hoop Dee Doo. Of course I was doing a lot of studying at the time!

[JOCK 113]

Benaek

Benaek,
As originally quoted 7 DAYS AGO, please send me back your logbook and I will personally make sure that it is sent back to you within 24 hours.
Still awaiting logbook arrival, no emails and still no phone calls.

Andrew

ps. scanned copies are unreadable

[JOCK 113]

Benaek

Benaek,

You know my email address, and you have not sent me an email. My offer of sending me your logbook is withdrawn from this moment onwards.

Andrew

[hobbit1983]

You do sound crazy...

[BlueRobin]

Surely the PM system would be a better medium than a public airing?

[Engine Noise]

was among the first students to have trained at oft's new place at sebastien even though i did nt stay to complete my program. They were really nice to me and i never had any problem with them.Brit,Ray and steve durommond were really nice, friendly. And i dont think they were ever intrested in reaping me off!

[worldpilot]

I did my PPL with OBA and never got the impression that I was being trained to fly only in the United States, even though it was a JAA-PPL training. I hold a UK license, live in Germany, and have flown in several European countries without noticing a big difference. If you understand the rules and regulations of the respective country you are fying in, and have studied the appropriate charts, you won't have any problem flying in any part of this world.

WP

[hobbit1983]

BenAek,

I apologise if I am poking my nose where it doesn't belong, but my comment was intended to be light banter.

May I politely suggest that calm, rational direct communication between yourself & OFT might be a far better way to resolve the problems, rather than posting on Pprune.

Despite the fact that me & OFT never really saw eye to eye, I am at pains to point out that they did in fact sort out all my problems when I confronted them with my issues. My only remaining gripe is that the problems were allowed to happen in the first place.

And I most certainly do not share your opinions of the instructors there - quite the opposite in fact.

[1711]

Don't knock OFT or the USA.

I was put in touch with OFT through Cabair. I did a PPL at OFT in 2004, hour building and ME/CPL earlier this year. I then went onto Cabair at Cranfield for ME/IR and MCC. I am a member of a British flying club and I fly in both countries.

My best advice would be to try an get the 7 PPL exams finished before you go or as a minimum get most of the study done in the UK so that you just have revision to do out in USA. That way, you can concentrate on the flying.

I have never had any issues with OFT. If there are things that you are unhappy with the best thing to do is speak with OFT. I found all staff only to keen to help out but as with all things in life, you get the right results when you approach things with the right attitude.

Infact, I'll echo previous comments of MarkMojo (Hi mark, how ya doing, good to see you at Heathrow a couple of weeks ago) compared to some so called "respectable" clubs and schools in the UK that I have been with, OFT is pretty good.

Don't put artificial time constraints on your training. I have to say that some of the advertised times are too optimistic. I'd say, for a PPL allow 6 weeks, for a CPL allow 4 weeks. But be flexible enough to stay for longer. I did my ME/CPL in 2 weeks but only because I got lucky with the weather (yes they do have weather - lots of it - see below) and I flew twice a day every day until the hours were done. It was the hardest flying that I have done so far (even harder than the ME/IR training and skills test in the UK which was actually quite straight forward) That reminds me, someone commented earlier that people were flying to PPL skills test standard quicker than in the UK. I'd suggest that the reason for this is because most PPL in the UK is done over a longer period of time than when in the USA which is done almost everyday. You therefore pick up and develop the flying skills quicker so it does not surprise me that US trained pilots get to standard quicker. Remember, you may not be any good or have no flying aptitude. Or you may decide to give into temptation and go to Disney more often or get drunk at the winghouse and have lots of sleep ins. The time you'll take to finish training depends on your aptitude and your motivation. If it takes longer, look in the mirror first before blaming others.

As for bullying. Never seen it. What I did witness was plenty of students who were lacking in confidence when actually they were at a pretty good standard. They got cold feet when nearing test time and some staff were quite rightly trying to motivate individuals to do the test. I can tell you that OFT would never let anyone solo or test if they were not up to it.

Flying in Florida can be as difficult as the UK. I have done lots of hours in both countries and I personally find UK airspace slightly easier. I will agree that in Florida, unlike the UK, you can fly around for hours avoiding airspace. You won't learn anything though, so don't be radiophobic, go looking for airspace transits etc. OFT is sandwiched between Orlando and Tampa. There are MOA's (similar to Danger Areas) and other flight restrictions like Disney and Kennedy Space Centre. There are plenty of radio and airspace issues there to learn that are as demanding as the UK. Some airports can be very busy and at Kissimmee you can expect very busy circuits with biz jets and loads of GA traffic. But it is up to you. Be sensible with your learning and look to develop yourself rather than take the easy route - you'll only get out what you put in.

Weather. Another myth about it being easier in the US. Lots of turbulence (you'll learn to trim very well) regular thunderstorms, clouds and winds. You'll get lots of practice of landing in a crosswind and right on the limits of the aircraft and in turbulence. Also, the density altitudes are much higher too which affects performance.

Navigation. Miles of featurless swamps. Less features than the UK and so you really learn the benefits of accurately maintaining heading and speed - especially at night! You'll need to develop a good system of navigation to be sure you'll pass either the PPL/CPL test.

But at the end of the day it is a question of econmics. Fuel is much cheaper than the UK. I saved 000's on my training but because I did it all through Cabair "pathfinder" my CV is not as messy as some. Remember, even Oxford use the USA. Also remember that it is in the interests of British Flying Clubs to rubbish US flying because they are competing for your business.

Final thought, I am comfortable flying in 2 countries. It's a bit like having a second language and the more exposure one has two different flying environments, the better a pilot one becomes.

[hobbit1983]

Then I wish you the best of luck with having the issues resolved.

My point was, that Jock 113 did seem willing to communicate with you to get them sorted.

Anyway, as you say, enough bitching.

[1711]

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