Paying Up front
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Paying Up front
As someone who can remember a certain CAP509 school at Lydd/Manston which went bust with many students loosing tens of thousands, it seems worth repeating the excellent advice given in Clive Hughes' book (which he repeats about 5 times) about getting a commercial licence. DON'T PAY UP FRONT
I would rather lose the 5 or 10% discount that lose the lot. Yet another flight school may have gone under today with students possibly loosing money.
I would rather lose the 5 or 10% discount that lose the lot. Yet another flight school may have gone under today with students possibly loosing money.
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Its good advise although its certainly not old.
The first time I enquired about training it was the first thing I was told..
And again many books you buy say this also.. nearly every book I have tells you this.
But are there really peeps out there who have paid up front??, does that happen any more?
The first time I enquired about training it was the first thing I was told..
And again many books you buy say this also.. nearly every book I have tells you this.
But are there really peeps out there who have paid up front??, does that happen any more?
The Oracle
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FatFlyer,
Another option is to pay up front by credit card. That way you can enjoy the discount and if they go bust you can get money back.
If your credit limit is not high enough to pay the course, you can over pay your credit card so you have a credit. This will give you a higher credit limit.
Before you even get to this point you should check into the school you are thinking of attending. Things you need to know:
1) Are they in good standing with their bank and their vendors?
2) Is the school growing or shrinking?
3) What is the school's trend for student enrollment (increasing or decreasing over the last few years)?
4) What is the condition of their equipment (when schools have financial problems aircraft maintenance is one of the first things to suffer)?
These checks will increase your odds of completing the training at the school of your choice without them going bust.
Happy Flying,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
Another option is to pay up front by credit card. That way you can enjoy the discount and if they go bust you can get money back.
If your credit limit is not high enough to pay the course, you can over pay your credit card so you have a credit. This will give you a higher credit limit.
Before you even get to this point you should check into the school you are thinking of attending. Things you need to know:
1) Are they in good standing with their bank and their vendors?
2) Is the school growing or shrinking?
3) What is the school's trend for student enrollment (increasing or decreasing over the last few years)?
4) What is the condition of their equipment (when schools have financial problems aircraft maintenance is one of the first things to suffer)?
These checks will increase your odds of completing the training at the school of your choice without them going bust.
Happy Flying,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
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Re paying up front with credit cards in case it all goes belly up. Good advice in the UK, but if you use a UK credit card to buy anything overseas (including flight training) then you may well have some real problems getting anything out of the credit card companies. Something about some interpretation of whichever law it is that covers this stuff that the banks say means UK only, and everyone else says means anywhere.
No idea about any of this with non-UK cards.
And Richard, I'm not having a pop at your advice, all your posts I've seen have all been straight good advice - just something you might not be aware of.
No idea about any of this with non-UK cards.
And Richard, I'm not having a pop at your advice, all your posts I've seen have all been straight good advice - just something you might not be aware of.
The Oracle
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humpty,
If you find out that there is a problem for people recovering their money with a U.K. credit card at a U.S. school, let me know. I will pass on the warning.
I will also check into it.
Thanx for the Heads Up,
Richard
If you find out that there is a problem for people recovering their money with a U.K. credit card at a U.S. school, let me know. I will pass on the warning.
I will also check into it.
Thanx for the Heads Up,
Richard
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Paying up front
I have read a number of times that you should never pay up front for your flying training..... but I have applied to start a residential ground school course at a well known school and they firstly want a £1000 deposit and secondly, the whole cost of the course must be paid before you start. Has anybody found any way around this at all as I really don't want o be handing over £5500 upfront......
Cheers, mnp
Cheers, mnp
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It's well known that you shouldn't, the Guru of all information aeronutical (Clive Hughes) advocates this too.
I would suggest though, if you REALLY REALLY REALLY must, and I don't think there is a case for this... put it on a credit card. That will offer you limited protection.
But before you hand over any of your hard earned at all, check check and check again.
I would suggest though, if you REALLY REALLY REALLY must, and I don't think there is a case for this... put it on a credit card. That will offer you limited protection.
But before you hand over any of your hard earned at all, check check and check again.
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Paying up front
Yeah the honest answer is , "don't do it" I have made that mistake with a well publicised US school on this site.
At that price it seems likely that it is only one of two school, firstly i can imagine the deposit being for the manuals? possibly! but if not seems a little high.
If it is the school i am thinking of I did my groundschool there too, see if you can negotiate the payment structure with them, they did with me. Or alternatively if they cannot do that, take your business elsewhere , there are other very reputable schools about, now that everyone is into the JAA syllabus that have got most the general answers and requirements down to a tee.
There are plenty of schools that will do pay as you go now as well when you come to do the flying training.
At that price it seems likely that it is only one of two school, firstly i can imagine the deposit being for the manuals? possibly! but if not seems a little high.
If it is the school i am thinking of I did my groundschool there too, see if you can negotiate the payment structure with them, they did with me. Or alternatively if they cannot do that, take your business elsewhere , there are other very reputable schools about, now that everyone is into the JAA syllabus that have got most the general answers and requirements down to a tee.
There are plenty of schools that will do pay as you go now as well when you come to do the flying training.
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Thanks for the advice guys, I wasn't keen at all to hand over all the money up front. Now that I know that others haven't bargained I will certainly be doing the same-no matter how big the school, I am not trusting them with my cash!
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There are schools that have a separate student fees account. The money is kept separate from the money used to run the FTO. That way they know that the money is available for them and you are safe because they can't get their hands on it if it looks as though they are going out of business.
Hope this helps
AP
Hope this helps
AP
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....and when the school file bankruptcy, suddenly the students' money "kept" separatly goes in the pocket of the last guy closing the door (usually the manager)!
that way you are safe, the cops can not get the hand on it if it looks as though they are going to jail!
Hope this helps
H.
posted 22nd August 2003 20:08
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There are schools that have a separate student fees account. The money is kept separate from the money used to run the FTO. That way they know that the money is available for them and you are safe because they can't get their hands on it if it looks as though they are going out of business.
Hope this helps
AP
that way you are safe, the cops can not get the hand on it if it looks as though they are going to jail!
Hope this helps
H.
posted 22nd August 2003 20:08
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There are schools that have a separate student fees account. The money is kept separate from the money used to run the FTO. That way they know that the money is available for them and you are safe because they can't get their hands on it if it looks as though they are going out of business.
Hope this helps
AP
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Well it sounded like an scheme worth checking out to me. The school where I did my training did offer it but as I was only doing the flying training, I paid as I went.
Sounds like you've had a bad experience, Hulk
Sounds like you've had a bad experience, Hulk
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Also, security issues aside (important though they are), consider what might happen if you pay up front but then realise that you don't like the school. Puts you in a difficult position if you want to change.
It is difficult with groundschool but I can't see why they need you entire course fee up front. Negotiate a payment schedule or go elsewhere.
It is difficult with groundschool but I can't see why they need you entire course fee up front. Negotiate a payment schedule or go elsewhere.
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the "funniest" thing is we say constantly to not to pay up front, and every month there are some guys screwed by dishonest flight schools, TRTO,.... Schools use some technics like :10% discount, free housing for 6 months, we will hire you as a cfi if you pay...., we will find you a job,...
sad world
sad world
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Speaking as someone who has lost the best part of 20 grand I whole heartedly agree with Clive Hughes and his book and never pay anything to any FTO that you cant afford to loose!!!!!!!!
The company I was training with, was a large school in Kent, it was CAA approved and NVQ approved, what could possibly could go wrong with such high levels of approval, with the oversight of two government branches, who both check the financial viability of the company!!!!!!
Please heed this advice, bitter personal experience proves if you don’t you will loose out.
Credit card payments do help this, but it is no guarantee.
At one time the FTO I work for was considering an escrow account. This is not as safe as you would think, as I know of a couple of pilots who did this for an apparent type rating on a HS125 for an Italian company, who was fictitious, they lost their money too!
My FTO certainly advocates pay as you go and the use of credit cards. It is beneficial for us as well as the students.
SO DO NOT PAY ANYTHING YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOOSE, trust me!!!!!
The company I was training with, was a large school in Kent, it was CAA approved and NVQ approved, what could possibly could go wrong with such high levels of approval, with the oversight of two government branches, who both check the financial viability of the company!!!!!!
Please heed this advice, bitter personal experience proves if you don’t you will loose out.
Credit card payments do help this, but it is no guarantee.
At one time the FTO I work for was considering an escrow account. This is not as safe as you would think, as I know of a couple of pilots who did this for an apparent type rating on a HS125 for an Italian company, who was fictitious, they lost their money too!
My FTO certainly advocates pay as you go and the use of credit cards. It is beneficial for us as well as the students.
SO DO NOT PAY ANYTHING YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOOSE, trust me!!!!!
Being someone who lost alot at a "reputable" school I would advise DO NOT DO IT.. Any school that wants payment up front as is not wishing to accept installments should be avoided.. saying that I did pay for my ATPL groundschool all in one go.. but that was at London Guildhall University.. and with my educational experience was sure that they would be in business for the following 8 months at least..
Be wary.. if you lose it you will NEVER get it back.
Spitty
Be wary.. if you lose it you will NEVER get it back.
Spitty
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I would be very careful about paying a certain main FTO in South West Spain any money up front. From what I´ve heard from some mates down there the place might not be open for very much longer.
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I agree with most of the posts here - I managed to go through all my (JAA modular) training with reputable FTOs without ever paying more than a token deposit up front; that was actually one of my discriminating criteria whenever choosing an FTO. Always keep them on their toes - and make sure they work hard to get the next cheque...
Cheers
Cheers
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I have to say: I paid the £4,995 my Dad left me before he died up front for my flying training and have had no problems as of yet, but then again, there is the deal that if the school shuts down you can either have the money back or they will transfer your hours to the nearest flying school operating on the same branch...
I don't know whether any place you guys have come across does this, but I am quite content right now!
I don't know whether any place you guys have come across does this, but I am quite content right now!