Future Outlook - Global Warming/climate Change..surely It's Going To Effect Pilots

[PD210]

I am finding this particular subject more and more difficult to ignore and I am very surprised that none of us seem to be discussing it. Unless you have had your head in the sand for a while or might just be ignorant about it. Perhaps you are very aware but simply don't want to talk about it. But don't you think we should?

The effects of climate change and our continued destruction of the earth are becoming more and more evident. I think we can take that as read. Evidence that man is not contributing to this unfolding catastrophe is a redundant argument.

So as pilots, where do we stand on this? For me, halfway through my ATPL's, I have two hats. My green hat - doing what I can in the form of helping green organisations, recycling and lobbying our Government to do more. And then there's my flying hat - I'm training to be a pilot yet I'm well aware that aviation is one of the biggest emitters of greenhouse gasses. Should we feel like hypocrites!?

Mr O’Leary of Ryanair predicts free air travel for business travellers within ten years. How damn irresponsible of him (environmental hat). All signs are that air travel is set to increase significantly in the decades to come. But how strong is the risk of all airlines being forced to drastically reduce the amount of flights by Governments, who will be desperately trying to meet their carbon emission reduction targets?

Surely when you read all the viewpoints, it's very hard not to have a pessimistic view of future air travel. It almost feels like something's gotta give on this one.

Sorry to get all political about it but we all on this forum wanna be pilots and I seriously think that this is an issue that will affect us in our careers. Would love to hear from others about this.

Any words of optimism?

Any knowledge of GE, Rolls Royce etc making much greener jet engines that will keep us on the flight decks for the decades to come??

Christ, if it's not terrorism it's something else. And I do wonder which one is more significant...

Someone tell me it's not all doom and gloom.


PD210

[just_go_to]

Flying is driven by the consumer. People have to fly. There is no viable alternative. The government can introduce taxes to make flying more costly for the consumer but people will still fly.

It is the same with cars on our congested roads. What ever steps are taken to reduce the numbers of cars on our roads people just keep on driving.

[High Wing Drifter]

I think that there is a good chance that aircraft development will start to keep pace with demands for lower emissions. I believe in the long run, air travel will be seen to be signicantly more efficient than trains and cars. In fact, aircraft like the ATR and Dash 8 are already very efficient.

The marketing spiel is quite interesting!

Basically, air travel in the near future will be one of the few viable choices!

[PD210]

High Wing..

Nice link. Found that quite interesting, despite it being marketing spiel. Had a feeling that the turbo props were some of the cleaner aircraft.

just_to_go..

Quote:
Flying is driven by the consumer. People have to fly. There is no viable alternative.

Maybe not, but wouldn't you say it's a little irresponsible to fly to, say New York, for a frantic weekend of shopping when that could be done via the train in London or Glasgow? Call me a killjoy!

So I presume everyone is up for more runways and terminals to feed this necessity to fly.

I'm still unconvinced and feel that restrictions in the years to come could affect certain carriers. Expecting aero engines to progress in terms of reduced emissions is basically just hopeful in my view.

Still, chin up I guess.

PD210

[strafer]

Evidence that man is not contributing to this unfolding catastrophe is a redundant argument.

No it isn't.

You are on this earth for the merest speck of time.

Earth warms up, thousands of years later, earth cools down. Thousands of years later, earth warms up.

You make not the slightest jot of difference.

[mungo_55]

PD210, I have to admit to being in 2 minds about this as well. I too am studying for my ATPLs but wonder how aviation is going to look in, say, 10-20 years time. There seems to be fairly strong opinion at the moment that aviation is a big contributor to green house gases.

This link to the RR website has a report title 'Aero engines and the environment' which makes for interesting reading.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil_aer...gy/default.jsp

[just_go_to]

Okay so maybe my first post was a bit direct!

I feel that in a consumer driven world it will be very hard to steer people away from what they are used to. But I do agree with your comment about JFK for a weekend's shopping!

I do think you can think of it just like car travel. Have any government schemes actually stopped people using their cars?

[PD210]

Cheers for that link mungo,

There is clearly research going on in the fields of engine development and it's encouraging to see. Mind you, an advancement in technology coupled with the advancement in air travel might actually balance things out to the point where we might still be in the same old situation.


Just_to_go has a point with regards to car travel and how government schemes don't stop people. But to simply hike up taxes for the most polluting vehicles (let's say 4x4's eh!). should for most, push drivers towards more fuel efficient cars. The same can apply to aircraft. I just think we have a responsibility as people as well as trying to safeguard our jobs as pilots for the future.

Can't be bothered with strafer's words. Guess he's naive.

Cheers for now

PD210

[strafer]

Can't be bothered with strafer's words. Guess he's naive

If you'd have been around 200 years ago, I guess you'd have been one of those convinced that people's heads would fall off once they went faster than 20mph on the new fangled steam trains.

You are the naive one my son, prepared to believe any old tosh designed to take more of your money.

So, I'll repeat again, while global warming is a fact, the idea that's it's caused by nasty 4x4s is laughable. The simple fact is the eruption on Mt St Helens a few years back put more CO2 in the atmosphere than mankind (boo!, hiss!) has managed in his entire existance.

Educate yourself.

[High Wing Drifter]

You are the naive one my son, prepared to believe any old tosh designed to take more of your money.

I strongly suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. By that I mean:

* The world is warming.

* The world is warming in part because of polution.

* We are not all going to die (yet).

* The world economy is not going to backslide.

* We do need to reduce emissions, if only because waste is the ugliest manifestation of apathy and ultimately results in regression or failure.

* We are going to run out of oil. It just remains to be seen if we can still sythensis alternative fuels.

[khaosanroad]

Hi PD210,

I am glad to see that a few pilots are aware of the environmental threats. Like you, I feel very concerned by these issues, however I consider that the shortage of ressources, especially oil, is more serious than the emissions. The latest have been dramatically reduced over the last years with the new engines and I think that the contribution of aviation is lower than the emissions of cars and boats. Coping with oil shortage is an other story. Each individual should feel involved to save energy and to delay the shortage. I'm so angry to see such things:

- big 4x4 cars in cities, people driving instead of walking 10 minutes
- AC or heaters with open windows
- wide body jets flying thousands of miles with 20 paxs on board
etc.....

I think that pilots have daily opportunities to save huge quantities of fuel in their jobs, but how many of them care about that?

- fuel efficent descent profiles
- reasonable use of the APU
- fuel management etc...

Regards.

[PD210]

Nice posts,

However, I feel I should have probably omitted my second paragraph in the topic starter. What I really want is to discuss more about the implications of climate change on us as pilots and the future for aviation. To discuss whether it is actually happening or not should perhaps be for another forum on the Greenpeace or Friends of the Earth websites! We all have valid points I think, from objecting to 4x4's and other gas guzzlers, the needless waste that we see these days and the justified point about Mt St Helens giving off more CO2 than you can shake a stick at.

Any engineers out there who may know about engine technology and wether it's actually possible to get a 400pax a/c in the air using hydrogen/electric/chip fat energy!? Oil may well be a finite source (going by current exploration results). It's difficult to say.

Still reckon we could be facing some serious lifestyle changes empowered by governments intent on meeting already agreed Kyoto targets. And one of these may well be a drastic reduction in allowable air travel. I find this very difficult to rule out.

Fate, however, may take it's hand and slowly we will be flying economical aircraft that will not have destructive emissions.

Wishful thinking in an ideal world..

PD210

[Boeing737]

what about when our diminishing oil resources become obsolete, in the very near future?How will it be possible to contribute to global warming then?

[Future Pundit]

Global Warming? It may be a myth

Let us put our scientific head on when we talk about global warming and climate change.

Fact 1.
The Earth's temperature goes through cycles. Yes, the Earth is warming but it started 200 years ago and has had two cylces since. The present temperature is 0.6 degrees than 100 years ago and is not regarded as high.

Fact 2.
The Earth started warming before CO2 emissions started to increase during the industrial revolution.

Countless resourses can be found and are worth researching before we all believe the doomsters.